ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
Asia: SouthKarachi PCC question
Problem is, my temp address is in Karachi central and hers is in Karachi East. I think I'll err on the side of caution and get two PCCs made.

It's bad enough when you have never lived in Pakistan and are at the mercy of others to get to know the system there, but it's even worse when the even the locals can't help you because they don't have experience either. Only way to learn how to get things done is through hard knocks.
GreenThumbNot TellingPakistan9/12/2012 9:03
Asia: SouthKarachi PCC question
Since I have a Pakistani ID with a Pakistani address on it, when my wife made a new id after our marriage, it showed her current residence at my address. Due to this change, when I went to get a Police clearance certificate for her, I was sent to my local SP office rather then hers, which means that her PCC will show my temporary address rather than hers. In addition, she has lived at muliple addresses in Karachi since the age of 16. Do I need a PCC from every district, or will just one suffice?
GreenThumbNot TellingPakistan9/11/2012 7:51
Asia: SouthInterview questions and documents!!!

hey Riz gud luck and keep us in loop with your review..i have my interview next week and I am in similar situtaion very nervous and depressed..everything seems fine but never know about CO...myself and hubby; we practised on video chat with all the possible ansers and dates and his latest visit toPakistan our honeymoon, habbits, favourites, dishes, family members, his income, his job, his friends, his immigration date from Pakistan to USA..and many things so you should also do some kind of moke interview with your hubby :) GUD LUCK and keep me in your prayers ..as well on what date you have your interview...



Hey thank u so much. I am going to have my interview in second week of September inshAllah. Alhamdulillah everything till interview has really gone smooth and we didn't get any RFE or delays. I hope, wish and pray that i do not go into AP as it's been a year and 3 months i have not seen my husband. Please keep me in prayers!

Just be honest and good luck


Thanks. Keep in prayers please
riz & wifeFemalePakistan8/25/2012 15:08
Asia: SouthInterview questions and documents!!!

One way to prepare for questions would be to read the Islamabad Consulate review page. Many people there have posted the questions they were asked at the interview. Make sure you and your partner are able to easily answer these questions in a clear, concise manner. Ask each other questions in general about each other, events in your lives, relatives, favorite things/habits, etc. Read the questions posted in those reviews and try to guess what the CO may focus on in your case. Think about possible red flags in the relationship and how to answer questions aimed at those areas in order to demonstrate a bonafide marriage. Don't count on having a long time to explain issues, so prepare quick, understandable answers for possible questions. Also, if you get a bad CO and interview doesn't go well, don't waste time arguing (never works) or asking them to look at something. They want you to leave and if you argue they will mention calling security. Instead, be cooperative and try to get specifics on your denial, or about their request for missing items. If it goes bad make sure you can leave fully understanding what happened and what the CO was thinking so you aren't left confused. Arguing just wastes the little time they may give you after they make a decision. You may not even notice they have a problem with something in your case until they say at the end that you are denied or missing something so try to hold back your surprise, frustration, anger, etc and stay calm.

As far as documents, they should have sent you a packet saying what exactly THEY want you to bring, but you should also bring proofs that may help against red flags/issues in your specific case. They may not look at any of those things, but with a good CO he/she will take time to look at those items and discuss them with you. So be prepared. Good luck, I really hope you get a good, fair CO!! Please don't forget to come back and tell us all what happened, update your timeline, and make a review of your interview/questions because it really helps everyone else on this site! Especially since everyone on the Pakistan Portal are desperate to hear about good interviews! Don't forget us if it goes well ;) :) (And we will help you if it goes bad) Again good luck!



Thank u so much for the advises. I'll surely pay attention at mock interviews with my husband. I think it will help.
I'll come back to u people inshAllah and will write a detailed review. Keep me in prayers please :)
riz & wifeFemalePakistan8/25/2012 15:04
Asia: SouthInterview questions and documents!!!
Hello friends!
I am going to have my CR1 visa interview in islamabad soon. I am very worried regarding the questions they will ask me and the documents they will check. Few experiences here just have scared me much where they just dont see anything and reject....saying unpetitionable relationship. Please guide me how to prepare for the interview!!
riz & wifeFemalePakistan8/24/2012 14:12
Asia: SouthPhone call from US embassy Islamabad prior to interview!

@ Riz & Wife

I got a phone call from Islamabad embassy and they asked me to get the Original Birth Certificate. Now My wife had already sent them the original(Nadra)birth certificate to NVC and in the instruction package from NVC states that they have received my Original birth certificate with a sign "O". So what now, is that normal? Do I go to Nadra and get me another one made as i do have the photocopy of the previous one? I can get that done easily...and it only takes a day or two max to get it from Karachi Nadra office as my interview is on the 14th of this month. Please advise if there's something else I'm supposed to do.

Hello! If u can get it done easily please have it made.....my wife has got made the documents they asked for....but they didn't mention anything about birth certificate
riz & wifeFemalePakistan9/8/2012 13:01
Asia: SouthPhone call from US embassy Islamabad prior to interview!

Thats a bit extensive! who the heck keeps the original nikahnama of a previous marrage... you shoudl tell the CO that you had a bond fire and burnt all the previous items out of anger to relieve your fustrations! .... if you have it thats great! i hope you can gather those thigns.

Yes inshAllah. With the help of Allah swt I will be able to gather all the documents
riz & wifeFemalePakistan9/1/2012 4:28
Asia: SouthPhone call from US embassy Islamabad prior to interview!

Riz, could you kindly share what documents they asked you to bring??

Important to mention that they have my original marriage and divorce certificate but they have also been asking for;

1)Original nikahnama with ours signatures
2)Original nikahnama of previous marriage
3)Union council urdu notice of divorce effected

Attached Files


riz & wifeFemalePakistan8/31/2012 5:08
Asia: SouthPhone call from US embassy Islamabad prior to interview!

when they are asking for "original" that means they want the authetic document that you have, NOT a PHOTOCOPY! so just take the Original document with you incase they want to see it thats the only reason they are asking for it. For example the Birthcertificate they ask everyone to submitt an ORIGINAL not a photocopy its the same scenario here. The main purpose they ask for originals is to inspect that they are official and not a forged photocopy.

Honey they have my original marriage certificate and original divorce certificate NOT the photocopies. They have been asking additional things on the basis of which the originals have been made
riz & wifeFemalePakistan8/31/2012 4:59
Asia: SouthPhone call from US embassy Islamabad prior to interview!

Yes they have asked for my original nikahnama and original nikahnama of previous marriage and divorce certificate from union council not of nadra but based on which i got divorce certificate. which i understood was that they needed the notice of termination of marriage from union council as i have already submitted the original divorce certificate

All the requested documents have been submitted to NVC. and when i got interview appointment letter; everything was marked fine. They didn't ask for anything. In addition to original marriage and divorce certificates they require nikahnamas and court orders too as i have understood. (they had not been asked to submit anywhere)
riz & wifeFemalePakistan8/30/2012 14:03
Asia: SouthPhone call from US embassy Islamabad prior to interview!

what documents did they ask you to bring? it could be that they are asking you to bring original documents of the one they already have or additional documents that were not submitted with your packet that were requeted.


Yes they have asked for my original nikahnama and original nikahnama of previous marriage and divorce certificate from union council not of nadra but based on which i got divorce certificate. which i understood was that they needed the notice of termination of marriage from union council as i have already submitted the original divorce certificate
riz & wifeFemalePakistan8/30/2012 14:00
Asia: SouthPhone call from US embassy Islamabad prior to interview!
I got a phone call from us embassy islamabad asking for three more documents to bring on the day of interview. Is it normal to get a phone call from embassy before interview as i have seen they ask for required documents on the day of interview and then ask to send them later?
riz & wifeFemalePakistan8/30/2012 12:17
Asia: SouthPhone call from US embassy Islamabad prior to interview!
I received a phone call from us embassy today to bring three more documents on the day of interview. Is it normal that they call u to bring required documents before interview?
riz & wifeFemalePakistan8/30/2012 11:28
Asia: South'B' Form Needed for Pakistani Applicants?

Hi B-Form is only needed for candidates below the age of 18.

If someone has id card then there is no need for a form-B

Hope that helps :-)

And for people below the age of 18 you can get the new b-form which comes in both english and urdu from Nadra Office. If you choose to use their fast service then you should have it done with few days.



Thanks that was really helpful! :)
wheresthevisa87Not TellingPakistan9/17/2012 23:54
Asia: South'B' Form Needed for Pakistani Applicants?

who is requesting the documents and for what purpose?

Saw it on the USCIS website in the 'Reciprocity by Country' section where they have a link to form that gives a chart of all the documents Pakistani citizens need to submit. The 'B' form is mentioned there.

1. Do Pakistani spouse visa applicants need to submit the B Form when civil documents are requested if they are above 18 years of age
I Hope your spouse is over the age of 18... most countries its illegal to marry someone under the age of 18 without parental consent

I'm the spouse being petitioned and am definitely over 18 and 21.

2. You can translate the form yourself there is a letter/form that you need to attach with the translation saying you are fluent in both languages and attest the translation is correct.

Do I need to submit this if I'm applying for a spouse visa and AM more than 18 years of age?

3. Best thing to do is get whatever documentation from NADRA, that is the primary resource the embassy uses for referances and background check.

Does that mean I need to get my NIC photocopy certified as well? Also is it recommended to submit original or certified photocopies of the birth certificate and nikahnama. I seem to be reading different things on different threads.

Could you please tell us what you are appliying for? CR1? or some other sort of visa?

Applying for the IR1/CR1 (the visa that follows the I-130 approval).




12/31/11 Got Married
01/28/12 Entered the United States on B1/B2 Visa
03/10/12 - I-130 Sent
03/17/12 - NOA1 Received
07/25/12 - Exited the United States before six months were up
08/14/12 - NOA2 Received

NVC:
08/23/12 - Petitioning spouse contacted local Congress Person on helping expedite process
08/27/12 - Case number given by NVC over the phone
09/10/12 - Received case #, IIN, and BIN and DS-3032 form from NVC by email
09/13/12 - Couriered DS-3032 form from Pakistan
09/14/12 - AOS bill invoiced & PAID
09/17/12 - DS-3032 delivered to NVC office in NH
09/20/12 - Civil documents to be couriered to agent (spouse) in the United States (intended)
wheresthevisa87Not TellingPakistan9/17/2012 13:06
Asia: South'B' Form Needed for Pakistani Applicants?
Do Pakistani spouse visa applicants need to submit the B Form when civil documents are requested if they are above 18 years of age or does a copy of the National Identity Card suffice? If the B Form is needed where do you get it translated from Urdu to English from and would photocopies certified from NADRA suffice or does the original document need to be submitted?
wheresthevisa87Not TellingPakistan9/17/2012 10:26
Asia: SouthDivorced
Dear Members,

I'm extremely sorry to ask these questions, but this is something that i have to go through and need help...

Due to very unfortunate events, my wife and I had to get divorced...we got divorced just 2 weeks before her interview...so her interview was no show...

I was so heart broken, that I completely forgot about everything as i was in shock. Can someone please tell me who do i call or notify of this event so her case is canceled completely(removed)and will i be penalized for not telling them on time?

Her interview was supposed to be held in Islamabad (Pakistan) and her interview date was July 31, 2012. Yes, I'm very late, but i was in shock of my life.

I would really appreciate any help i can get from you all...on who do i call or notify this event and cancel her case completely...Any advise will be very helpful..

Thanks in advance

P.S From bottom of my heart, i wish no one every has to ask these question and be heart broken...
Ali KhanNot TellingPakistan8/28/2012 18:36
Asia: SouthPackage 3.5 and I-134

I need urgent help with 2 questions.

The instructions inside Package 3.5 we got from the Islamabad Embassy, Pakistan includes the following to be sent back besides the forms:

1. Divorce certificates.
Q. Do we need to send the actual certified copies now or can we send just a copy now and my fiancee can take the actual certified copies later to the interview? The reason is that it will take another two weeks to get the certified copy from the court. I just have a copy of the original one.

2. Form I-134 supporting documents(Optional)
Q. The instruction says this is optional. It will take another week to get the income letters from Social Security for my Disability Income and Metlife Insurance for the same as well. Is it OK to take it to the interview since the notice says it is Optional.
Please help me. I don't want to delay sending the package to get the interview date but don't want to jeopardize the visa either.

Thanks Numair


I can't answer for sure on the 2nd.. but on the first, you need to send a COPY of the actual, certified order from the court. We did not, and they RFE'd us. Ours was the actual one given to my wife, by the judge, but they wanted a court certified one.. perhaps your experience may vary, but I would be safe rather than wait the multiple weeks for an RFE to be dealt with.

Next, for the optional I-134, I don't know.. I DO know that the more you have and the more prepared you are, the more likely you are to have everything run smoothly, though. Good luck in any case.
Shawn and StrataNot TellingCanada9/14/2012 10:00
Asia: SouthPackage 3.5 and I-134
I need urgent help with 2 questions.

The instructions inside Package 3.5 we got from the Islamabad Embassy, Pakistan includes the following to be sent back besides the forms:

1. Divorce certificates.
Q. Do we need to send the actual certified copies now or can we send just a copy now and my fiancee can take the actual certified copies later to the interview? The reason is that it will take another two weeks to get the certified copy from the court. I just have a copy of the original one.

2. Form I-134 supporting documents(Optional)
Q. The instruction says this is optional. It will take another week to get the income letters from Social Security for my Disability Income and Metlife Insurance for the same as well. Is it OK to take it to the interview since the notice says it is Optional.
Please help me. I don't want to delay sending the package to get the interview date but don't want to jeopardize the visa either.

Thanks Numair
Nomi and NoorNot TellingPakistan9/14/2012 9:48
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

You said you were a citizen of both countries.


Sorry if you misunderstood me. i said i am half filipino and half desi!! means my parents are from those countries :)
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/2/2012 13:03
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

Pakistan does not allow dual citizenship with the Philippines.


yes it doesnt.
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/2/2012 12:19
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

You can resubmit the a corrected version of the joint sponsor's I-134 and/or obtain a different person to be a joint sponsor.

A congressman or Senator cannot help with this.

Islamabad has accepted joint sponsors in the past.


Duplicate thread removed.

Please do not create new threads with the same topic. Keep the conversation in one place to avoid confusion.

pardon sir.
thank you for your reply sir, Yes they did but i was wondering why they didnt accepted mine and islamabad is still allowing cosponsor as per my knowledge.
Some people here advised me to use i864 and i864a forms and use some other financial documents, like my co-sponsor bank statements and written and attested statement from my cosponsor.
Will it help sir?<br>
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/1/2012 23:04
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

yes you can...your co-sponsor should sign this form NOT your fiance...REMEMBER to send BOTH FORMS the I-1864(this form should sign by your co-sponsor) and the I-134(this form sign by your fiance).


also make sure to use the right form..they are two forms I-864....I-864 and the I-864A.

the difference between in this 2forms is that form(I-864A) IF the sponsor and co-sponsor live together and the other one is NOT live in the same household(I-864)...so please don't confused yourself :thumbs:

goodluck :thumbs:


ok thanks for clearifying that. :) by the way they live in the same house so i have to use i-864a form right? and i just got an advise from a member that my fiance and my co-sponsor both should use i-864 forms? please guide me on this?

When you applied for your visa in Islamabad, was it as a Pakistani citizen?


yes as a Pakistani citizen, why?
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/1/2012 22:33
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

OP, I suggest you visit the Regional Forums to ask people going through the Islamabad Embassy about this specific topic http://www.visajourn.../91-asia-south/

Not all embassies accept co-sponsors



how to go to regional forum and post topic there/?
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/1/2012 13:41
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

You are the first Filipino I've seen here on VJ who is fluent in Urdu.

What state are you from in the Philippines? How long have you been living in Pakistan?


thanks :) im half filipino and half desi!!! i never been to Philippines :D

Can you please tell me from your experience if i can use i864 in k1 visa?
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/1/2012 13:31
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

yes they usually used this form for spouse but also for something else.

you probably want to read this link :thumbs:

http://www.uscis.gov.../i-864instr.pdf


thanks so that means i can use i-864 for my cosponsor :)
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/1/2012 12:50
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

Oh no :(

Your co-sponsor should use form I-864 instead of the I-134...it makes big different. but ofcourse together with I-134 form for your fiance.

my suggestion try sending that form also maybe your fiancé want's to find a full time job just in case.

Let just pray that things will be okay...ingat B-)


but i thought i864 are for spouse bit for k1 visa? please make this clear if its accepted in k1 visa?
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/1/2012 12:32
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

1. You can try submitting an I-864 from the joint sponsor, as well as the supporting documents for the joint sponsor's I-864.

or...

2. Your petitioner can get a job which meets the income requirements, and then submit a few paycheck stubs and a letter from the employer.


thank you so much for your advice :)
one question.
Do you think i should submit i-864 from my fiance and her mothers behalf too? will it work? and what other supporting documents do you think i should submit? at islamabad embassy i have seen so many people getting there k1 visa with cosponsor but i dont understand why they put this section on my case?
well she is looking for a job right now!!

How long did it take for you to learn to speak fluent Urdu?


took me few years :) do you know it?
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/1/2012 12:01
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(

Are you a citizen of the Philippines?

Did you interview in Islamabad?


Yes miss. do you know what i can do to overcome this?
Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/1/2012 4:59
Asia: SouthPublic charge and 221 (g) sections :(
Hello friends i really need help with my case!!



I have situation with my k1 visa process and I'm disparately want to know what I can do to over this charge, here is my story; I had an interview ten days ago. the interview went very well but in the end the CO put the section 221(g) and 212(a)(4) public charge section over my case because my fiance just graduated from collage and looking for a job.. and we also had her mother as cosponsor (she makes Enough income per year to support us) but the CO said we don't allow cosponsor in k1 visa. And he returned me my co-sponsor i-134 forms and crossed it on front page and returned transcripts of three years. i told him we have co-sponsor and she will willing to support us but he said your fiance has to overcome this and you can send us any documents that can be helpful while your case is being processed. they kept my passport and returned our pictures,chat logs and birth certificate which was sent with packet 3. and he also ask for my character certificate and kept it.




Maybe it has to do with a fact that my cosponsors affidavit of support i-134 forms had some mistakes like she checked I do not intend etc. At item 11. And when I realized this mistake I have them filled out corrected forms where she stated that she takes 100% full responsibility of me. But CO officer didn't ask for anything.




What should i send them to satisfy the CO?

how long do you guys think its gonna take if i send in the supporting papers this week?

what are the other option that we should consider?

should i involve congressmen?

can i have two cosponsor?




Please guide me guys!!!



Lil-hay-zeeNot TellingPhilippines10/1/2012 3:09
Asia: SouthIndia PCC Questions....
Hi,

I am also in the process of getting my PCC from Bangalore and after numerous trips to the local police station, they have just sent the document to the Commissioner's office for uploading so that the PSK can then issue the PCC to me.

I have two questions -

1. Why are there two types of PCC. Will it suffice if I just get the PCC from the PSK?

2. In the G-325A form we mentioned that we also lived in another part of India for 6 months. Do we need to go to the Commsioner's office there also to get another PCC? The problem is that we do not have any proof of address from this other place...we were just staying with friends and do not have any official papers to show that we were residing there....what to do in this case?

Thank you for your opinion on this.
RadhikaEMaleIndia10/11/2012 2:09
Asia: SouthAP Finally Over
Hi

AP process finally over and got confirmation :) had interview on April 6 2012
dowsumiMale09/18/2012 14:39
Asia: SouthMuslim Marriage Malaysia
Looking for information. Has anyone gotten married in Malaysia? My fiance and I will be marrying in October. He is an Afghan citizen but has been residing in Malaysia for 2 years as a student. I am a USC. We are both Muslim. I have contacted every government institution I can find, and after a month, only one has replied with a generic response of for non muslim marriages. Then it has a link for muslim marriages but the site is in another language. I am just trying to get prepared but we are running into road blocks :( :help:
lauraandehsanmMaleAfghanistan9/21/2012 0:33
Asia: SouthNADRA in Pakistan - I need a better understanding

If you were born in pakistan, then you must have birth certificate from their. Following link might help you
NADRA
In above link, you will find information for POC card, i think it will solve your issue.


Hm. I guess I'll just apply for the I-130 instead of changing her name since doing the application for the POC seems time consuming. The link was very helpful though. Thank you for the reply!

I wonder what this remains true for the POC process...

Note:
In case of doubt , any supporting document may be demanded.
Issuance of POC to foreign spouses is temporarily banned.
For further details please refer to the checklist in related downloads or call us on our UAN number 111-786-100.
Asim ANot TellingPakistan9/24/2012 14:58
Asia: SouthNADRA in Pakistan - I need a better understanding
Saj and Anam,

I was born in 1986 and came to the U.S. in 1988. I am currently in NYC. Is it possible/necessary for me to still have a NADRA I.D. card made?

I want to make it easiest on my wife as I can, but they won't accept my NY State I.D. and I am not in PK. I am only an American Citizen and she is only a PK citizen.

Your help is much appreciated and thank you very much for sharing your experience. It is very helpful...

Please correct me if I am not doing this right.
Asim ANot TellingPakistan9/21/2012 12:04
Asia: SouthNADRA in Pakistan - I need a better understanding
Hello,

I think she was mislead by a family member of hers who told her that she needs to get her passport made *after marriage" so my name can be on it. She didn't ask me to double check so I could have researched. So now the NADRA office in Hyderabad told her that "because your husband is an American living in NY, he is not a Pakistani citizen so he will need to ask the embassy in NY to send a letter."

Is all that necessary? if she makes the I.D./Passport without mentioning marriage, will that affect her interview in a year or so when I apply for her soon?

I don't know how the country I was born in works =) Is it harder now to get things done or do I need to "pay off" someone (grin). Please let me know.

Edited by Asim A, 20 September 2012 - 11:58 AM.

Asim ANot TellingPakistan9/20/2012 11:52
Asia: Southmedical
i have received a letter regarding medical

what are medical requirements for immigrant visa F 1 category at lahore

please guide me
omairrahidNot TellingPakistan10/14/2012 17:15
Asia: SouthK1 Visa after the interview is done.
how do i move to regional forum this is so complicated and nobody is helping or answering
:/
zazuNot TellingPakistan9/19/2012 17:02
Asia: SouthK1 Visa after the interview is done.
Thanks both of you

Celeste can you elaborate a little pls i didnt get that .. Its been 14 working days already :(

Much appreciate .

Sn530 Inshallahh soon thankyou so muchhh!!
zazuNot TellingPakistan9/18/2012 16:07
Asia: SouthK1 Visa after the interview is done.
HI,
i am a Pakistani and my finace is a US citizen he applied for my K1 visa in Aug 2011,
i had my interview on 29th of aug 2012 at 8 am.

the interviewer asked me following questions:
1. have you ever visited us before ?
ans: i said yes

Q: can us show me ur previous visa's?
And: i showed him my previous visa's in my passports.

Q: how applied for u
A: my finance

Q:what does he do?
Q: are you guys relatives?
Q: love marriage or arrange?
Q: how arranged you guys?
Q: why are you guys not doing ur ceremony here in pak?

i answered everything and he didn't asked anything else after every answered received kept saying okay then next question and was typing looking at the computer.

well to me everything looked good and it was a quick and easy interview

after that he said ok madiha thats all we need , you will get ur passport within 10-15 days

i asked him if we could book our tickets n do preparations and all
he replied:
madiha we dont recommand this to anybody until they have the visa in the passport in hand because sometimes the mailing get delayed so if all goes well you will get it in 10-15 days

i didnt receive any green paper or anything.
ust a serail number and courier info.

he didnt even asked for our photographs etc.

its been 13 working days i haven't received anything and when i call this no:001 2026631225 they say : we think its still in the processing .
i am afraid if it takes 30-90 days can anyone help please.

thank you.
zazu

Edited by zazu, 17 September 2012 - 04:41 PM.

zazuNot TellingPakistan9/17/2012 16:39