biggish data

yeah, what Z said

Well the "while no figures exist" statement was true in 1997, that is no longer the case, there are now real figures. I've posted elsewhere from the recent paper that cites all the studies showing that the incidence of domestic violence in marriages with immigrant women and USC spouses is considerably higher than average. I'll dig that up again if you want me to. But that's basically irrelevant for the reasons I've mentioned before, . . .you don't need to do an experiment or have hard-scientific data before passing a law.

Congress can just think that there might be a problem and pass a law that they think might address it -- even if it only helps a little bit (they don't have to try and tackle the whole problem). So although you might not think it wiser to try and address abuse in marriages between two USCs (or as some have suggested, all marriages) that doesn't make what Congress did wrong.

Yes, I would be interested to see that. But I think (yes, I suppose I am prejudging) that the data will be highly disputable.

Well I guess I disagree on that one. For Congress to go through all the time and money and whatever else it takes to pass a law that may or not be needed for a problem that may or not exist, and that will cost taxpayers money to implement and maintain in a way that no one seems to have a handle on... well that may be politics as usual, but YES it is wrong.

Chris... I sincerely apologize for hijacking your innocent, fun little thread!

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-06-23 12:22:00

[quote name='meauxna' post='267670' date='Jun 22 2006, 02:21 PM'][quote name='zed2283' post='267600' date='Jun 22 2006, 10:46 AM']
Anything I've ever read basically says that there is no evidence to suggest that these types of occurances (divorces also) are any more prevelant in marriages with foreign spouses than in any other marriage in this country. And I find that to be a reasonable statement.[/quote]
zed,
Can you consider this? It's nothing to do with marriage, divorce or protecting foreign women(men). It's all about immigration and the American collective 'we' taking on someone we're eventually going to have to pay for.
What if?

Take all the bleeding heart ####### out of it if it doesn't jibe for you---look at it from a cooly practical point of view.
[/quote]

That's a good point, Meauxna, although I disagree that that's what it's about.

[quote name='Imbra2005' post='268116' date='Jun 22 2006, 04:56 PM'][quote name='zed2283' post='267600' date='Jun 22 2006, 01:46 PM']

Imbra, if you could provide a link to what Congress cited, it would be appreciated. Anything I've ever read basically says that there is no evidence to suggest that these types of occurances (divorces also) are any more prevelant in marriages with foreign spouses than in any other marriage in this country. And I find that to be a reasonable statement.[/quote]

Sure. Here's the link to the page of Congressional Record with Sen. Brownback's statment, it continues over a page or two. http://frwebgate.acc...ame=2005_record

Also, the INS commissioned a study for a report to Congress (I think it was in 1997) that, among other things, concluded that "While no national figures exist on abuse of alien wives, there is every reason to believe that the incidence is higher in this population than for the nation as a whole. Authorities agree that abuse in these marriages can be expected based on the men's desire for a submissive wife and the women's desire for a better life. At some point, after the alien bride has had time to adjust to the new environment, to make new friends, and to become comfortable with the language, her new independence and his domination are bound to conflict. The problem, according to Mila Glodava (Glodava and Onizuka, 1994) and Uma Narayan (Narayan, 1995), is largely due to the men's unrealistic expectations. While many state a desire for a submissive wife, they find that such dependence becomes a burden. To provide some relief, the husband seeks ways (friends, activities) that will get the wife "out of the house" on occasion. The resulting independence then angers the husband who manifests the anger on the wife, who may have only been guilty of trying to please her husband." http://www.uscis.gov...ies/Mobappa.htm

Does that help? There was testimony before the House Foreign Relations Committee in 2004 as well. I can try and find that online somewhere to if you want.
[/quote]

Wow... now if I tried to say something with a disclaimer like "although I have no facts, I know this is true" I would take some pretty serious heat. And I say that from experience. "Authorites agree that abuse in these marriages can be expected "???

[quote name='zethris' post='269229' date='Jun 23 2006, 07:24 AM'][quote name='Imbra2005' post='268116' date='Jun 22 2006, 04:56 PM']
[quote name='zed2283' post='267600' date='Jun 22 2006, 01:46 PM']

Imbra, if you could provide a link to what Congress cited, it would be appreciated. Anything I've ever read basically says that there is no evidence to suggest that these types of occurances (divorces also) are any more prevelant in marriages with foreign spouses than in any other marriage in this country. And I find that to be a reasonable statement.[/quote]

Sure. Here's the link to the page of Congressional Record with Sen. Brownback's statment, it continues over a page or two. http://frwebgate.acc...ame=2005_record

Also, the INS commissioned a study for a report to Congress (I think it was in 1997) that, among other things, concluded that "While no national figures exist on abuse of alien wives, there is every reason to believe that the incidence is higher in this population than for the nation as a whole. Authorities agree that abuse in these marriages can be expected based on the men's desire for a submissive wife and the women's desire for a better life. At some point, after the alien bride has had time to adjust to the new environment, to make new friends, and to become comfortable with the language, her new independence and his domination are bound to conflict. The problem, according to Mila Glodava (Glodava and Onizuka, 1994) and Uma Narayan (Narayan, 1995), is largely due to the men's unrealistic expectations. While many state a desire for a submissive wife, they find that such dependence becomes a burden. To provide some relief, the husband seeks ways (friends, activities) that will get the wife "out of the house" on occasion. The resulting independence then angers the husband who manifests the anger on the wife, who may have only been guilty of trying to please her husband." http://www.uscis.gov...ies/Mobappa.htm

Does that help? There was testimony before the House Foreign Relations Committee in 2004 as well. I can try and find that online somewhere to if you want.
[/quote]

Anyone really who disputes that is in denial. I would go so far as to say the vast majority percentage of older men marying younger women is for this reason. Even domestic mariage between an older man and a younger naieve woman. Once the Woman gets older and more experienced, the control factor (fantasy world) the older man was seeking goes away and the real abuse starts becasue he feels there is a growing power struggle.

Even worse when the American man solely desires a wife strictly from a foreign country because she is younger and/or because she is considered "poor and humble" (a.k.a non-western) and he believes them to be culturaly submissive in comparison to the brass rude American style, he feels there is a greater chance to live the fantasy of control. The girl is more a pet, than a person at this point. Thats when it gets sick. Thats why IMBRA, on many levels, is a good thing, it makes it much harder for the easy venues these people go to, to order a wife/spouse.

Oh and P.S. don't waste time commenting on the un-pc sounding nature of my comparison with older men and younger women. Lets face it, it's rare that there is a brokered mariage between a woman petitioner and a male beneficiary. Although, I would suspect that in many more cases, even if the woman was older the relationship would work out much better. Or at least, the odds of success are much higher in comparison. Heck, I have a thing for older women (they know what they want), I just happened to find someone who I love dearly that happens to be more my age.

[quote name='jangler' post='268551' date='Jun 22 2006, 08:28 PM'][quote name='nessaandcharles' post='267079' date='Jun 22 2006, 10:06 AM']

I agree IMBRA sucks, because it's delaying everybody's process. But I also agree it has one benefit: why do us foreigneirs have to show the police certificates and prove this and that while the USC don't need to? I think it's more than fair. If you need proof we are not lying about our past and we're not murderers, rapists, etc, why should the rule apply only 1 sided?

[/quote]

I believe the reason the government demands foreigners to have to show police certificates is to keep criminals out of the USA. Let's not pretend that they had the USC's welfare in mind. Do you really think they did that to keep us safe from abuse? Now the USC has to prove he/she is innocent of any crimes to solely protect the foreign spouse. They never really cared about "us" or that we may end up with a wife/husband who was at one time a prostitute or who once dealt drugs. The reasons for the criminal checks are different for both sides. Just my opinion.
[/quote]

Again well said, and I agree. It is very one sided with how these laws are being made and it goes to show how xenophobic America has become.

I M B R A

Imbicilic Magistrate Bought, Re-election Always
[/quote]

Again wow... and people accuse ME of sweeping generalizations. I would absolutely dispute this and in no way am I in denial about anything. The citings in the Congressional document were horrible, but I saw no dates, no numbers, or anything else. Unfortunately, you could make a list 100 times as long involving domestic spouses.

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-06-23 09:22:00

"just because one woman got murdered"??? You don't really think that's why it was passed do you? Please don't make me repost the horror stories of murders, rapes, and child molestations that Congress cited. Did you not see that in the last 10 years, over 30,000 "battered spouse waiver" self-petitions were filed by immigrant women and children who were subjected to abuse by their USC sponsor spouses?

Imbra, if you could provide a link to what Congress cited, it would be appreciated. Anything I've ever read basically says that there is no evidence to suggest that these types of occurances (divorces also) are any more prevelant in marriages with foreign spouses than in any other marriage in this country. And I find that to be a reasonable statement.

I think the main flaw with the argument that IMBRA was concealed, hidden, etc. is that it assumes that 531 lawmakers didn't know what they're voting for. I would challenge anyone to show me where a single representative or senator who voted for passage has admitted (a) that they didn't know IMBRA was incorporated into the VAWA bill, and/or (B) had they known that, they would not have voted for it. I don't think you can assume that these lawmakers don't know what they're voting for. In fact, I think you should assume just the opposite, that they know exactly what they are voting on.

The idea of amending different pieces of legislation to each other is commonplace. Congress (both parties) does it all the time -- sometimes for efficiency, and sometimes for political reasons (remember the Republicans tacking on the ANWR drilling amendment to the money for Iraq bill?)

And, various senators (both parties) spoke on the senate floor (before passage) about IMBRA and why it should be supported. It's all in the Congressional Record (the various anti-imbra website have villified these senators and can point you to their statements). So I just don't think that the argument that the evil feminists put one over on the Congress really holds much water.

Keyword on evil feminists here. Not the real feminists who actually do good for people on not their own continued gain (monetarily/politicaly).

With that, you have the nail, and almost hit it on the head. (I am not republican either by the way, I see both sides for what extremes they can take and how it is wrong either extreme) But I want to make the point though that many times laws are encapsulated into another when they strategicaly know the law in which it is now hiding is will force many to vote for "yey" on the bigger law because it would be "political suicide" if they didn't. Or the bigger law is so important to pass as soon as possible that the collateral damage of the deviously placed smaller bits becomes somewhat artificialy acceptable. Sometimes it just even comes right down to pay-offs and political favor trading.

It is fact that some of these guys truely never read over the laws. They just go by what others say or their political party leader "recommends" (forces, depending on who you talk to), or the vague descriptions they hear from one extreme or the other in their debates. Realisticaly, do you seriously believe that people of this calibur would ever admit they didn't know the full details of the law they voted on? Not likely. They want to keep the easy job.

The exploitation and passage of laws is extreme and it causes things like this to happen all the time. Unfortunatly, most of the detrimental stuff comes from the liberal side in multiple disguises. They have mastered the art of encapsulation much better than the conservative side.

Yes, this is a common practice and, unfortunately, probably the only way that anything gets done on Capitol Hill. That's why the presidents have asked for the line-item veto so many times over the years (like many governors have).

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-06-22 12:46:00

IMBRA is simply one more stupid thing you can thank the feminists for.

LOL! Do you even know what feminist means? I doubt it. I think you meant government. Feminism is about equality not female superiority. The last time I looked under my hairy armpits, I found out that there are a lot of women (as well as men) inconvienced by IMBRA.

I hope your wife meets a few "feminists" when she gets here. Or do you plan to just knock her up and chain her to the stove like all good southern boys?

...."all good southern boys" was an example of your gross generalizations. Not the way I really feel. Offensive, eh?

No, Mrs Whizz, I don't find that offensive at all. I'm not all sensitive like the rest of the goofballs in this country. I think everyone is entitled to express their opinions and beliefs. Maybe "feminist" wasn't the right word and "liberal" was. I don't know. But look at all this ####### everyone has to go through over IMBRA just because one woman got murdered. Now I'm not saying that that's a small thing, because clearly it's a terrible thing to have happened. But to take one awful instance and translate it into what we've got now is way more than just overblowing things. Maybe you call it government, but I call it feminist/liberal foolishness.

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-06-22 08:52:00

IMBRA is simply one more stupid thing you can thank the feminists for.

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-06-21 07:52:00

BOGOTA EMBASSY

My novia had her interview today and the K-1 visa was approved. She said that the whole thing was very easy and that the people there were very pleasant with her. A few comments:

I had sent her English-version documents already filled out (the papers from the embassy said that they can be in either English or Spanish). Well today they told her that turning in the English version would slow things down, so they gave her documents in Spanish to fill out.

About an hour after turning in all her documents they called her up to talk to the consul. Olga said that she was a gringa and that her Spanish wasn't very good. The lady made a joke, which put Olga at ease. She then asked the following questions:

How did you meet?
When was the last time you saw your novio?
How many times have you seen him?
Why do you want to get married?
Where does he live?
What does your family think about you leaving for the US?
When did he buy his house? (she didn't know the answer and the lady said that was ok)
Do you have any friends/relatives in the US and where do they live?

Those are all the questions I can remember her telling me. She then asked Olga if she had any proof of the relationship with her and Olga told her what she had. She said the lady looked through about half of it (we had lots of pictures, my phone bills, flight itineraries, etc.) and then told her she was approved. She arrived this morning a little before 7am and was done at 11am. She's supposed to go back tomorrow at 4pm (as has been previously documented here on VJ) to pick up the paperwork.

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-05-24 17:05:00

APROBADO!

My novia had her interview today and the K-1 visa was approved. She said that the whole thing was very easy and that the people there were very pleasant with her. A few comments:

I had sent her English-version documents already filled out (the papers from the embassy said that they can be in either English or Spanish). Well today they told her that turning in the English version would slow things down, so they gave her documents in Spanish to fill out.

About an hour after turning in all her documents they called her up to talk to the consul. Olga said that she was a gringa and that her Spanish wasn't very good. The lady made a joke, which put Olga at ease. She then asked the following questions:

How did you meet?
When was the last time you saw your novio?
How many times have you seen him?
Why do you want to get married? (I'm sure LisaD and TracyTN think this was a very good question!)
Where does he live?
What does your family think about you leaving for the US?
When did he buy his house? (she didn't know the answer and the lady said that was ok)
Do you have any friends/relatives in the US and where do they live?

Those are all the questions I can remember her telling me. She then asked Olga if she had any proof of the relationship with her and Olga told her what she had. She said the lady looked through about half of it (we had lots of pictures, my phone bills, flight itineraries, etc.) and then told her she was approved. She arrived this morning a little before 7am and was done at 11am. She's supposed to go back tomorrow at 4pm (as has been previously documented here on VJ) to pick up the paperwork.

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-05-24 16:21:00

Can My Wife Enter Mexico?

Do you plan on getting your wife a new Colombian passport with her married name? My wife and I just got back from Colombia (first time traveling with her GC) and I brought along our marriage license to show how her name changed between what was on her passport and what was on her GC. They just looked at the two and never asked to see the license.

So I guess there's no problem with her having different last names on the documents? Would this matter going to another country (such as Mexico)?

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2007-04-02 07:09:00

Can My Wife Enter Mexico?

Not sure where is the best place to post this, but my question is: can my wife enter Mexico with a US green card? She is a Colombian citizen and tells me that Colombians need a visa to enter Mexico. Can anyone tell me if US residency changes that requirement or would we still need to apply for a visa?

Thanks!

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2007-04-01 11:15:00

Just called NVC and the package was sent to Bogota yesterday. Woohoo!!

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-03-23 08:06:00

Annn, I sent an e-mail to NVCInquiry@state.gov and they replied with my case#. I then called and talked to a real person and they had the case# as well. Once I updated my timeline signature, it showed up on my previous post.

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-03-23 07:44:00

Hey, how did you guys track the progress? When I talked to the lady I asked when they received it and all she knew was "recently." I also asked if I would be able to track the package to Bogota and she told me I'd have to call the embassy.

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-03-21 22:19:00

Yep, I just received an e-mail reply (I sent an inquiry last week) with my case#. I then tried to use the auto system and they had no record.

zed2283

Not Telling

Colombia

2006-03-21 15:17:00