ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals
Police Clearance Certificate for Indian Nationals

Depending upon what application you are filing, and to which country, you may need one or both types of PCCs.
1) Type 1: PSK PCC: This is a clearance that the Passport Seva Kendra (PSK) gives you, and you need to apply through the PSK office. Whenever a new passport is issued for anyone, it's the responsibility of the police (Your local jurisdiction police station) to keep a record of this passport issued. Thus, the passport people have to notify your local police station, and in turn the police give a clean green for this passport. This is their clearance. This is issued as a stamp in your passport and an accompanying letter stating that there is no adverse information regarding you on their files.

a) Fill in form on the PSK web site.
b) Get an appointment at the website (This can be a tough task)
c) Appear at the PSK with your appointment print out, copy of your application (copy of application not mandatory, PSK already has this), address proof, photos & other documents.
d) PSK will process give you an acknowledgement & receipt, and forward your application to the Commissioner’s Office.
e) Commissioners office will process your application and forward it to your jurisdictions police station.
f) Your police station will call you when they see your application. Then you may need to either visit the police station, or the person may come to your home. If you dont hear from them for a long time, you should follow this up so you can be sure things are moving along.
g) The police station may contact you or the person specified in the application as contact, and the requested documents may need to be furnished (Similar to (2.g) below). We didn't have to do this, since we had applied for both PCCs, and the Commissioner’s Office PCC was already in process, so the local police station was already aware of this case which they had recently processed.
h) The police station sends the papers back to the Commissioner’s Office.
i) The Commissioner’s Office sends the information back (electronically) to the PSK office where you originally applied.
j) The PSK will SMS you when the information is ready at their office. You can then proceed to the PSK to collect it.
k) The final product is a stamp in your passport (stating the country for which the PCC is issued) and a PCC letter. They gave us 2 copies of the letter. It looks similar to the commissioners PCC, but differs slightly in its text.
l) If you need to apply for another country, you have to take another PSK appointment and go again. The second one will be processed really fast if applied in a short span of the first one. They already have the information on their systems, and they issue the second one right away. We got the second one done within 2 hours when we went for our appointment.

2) Type 2: Commissioner of Police PCC: This is a letter that the Commissioner’s Office issues you. This is to state that you don’t have/had any legal issues pending against you.
a) Obtain a form from the Commissioner’s Office and fill it.
b) Pay the fees, and obtain a challan. (At any one of the Bangalore One counters)
c) Submit the form, challan, address proof, 3 photos at the Commissioner’s Office.
d) The form will be processed at the Commissioner’s Office.
e) From there, it will get forwarded to your local police station.
f) Your police station will call you when they see your application. Then you may need to either visit the police station, or the person may come to your home. If you don’t hear from them for a long time, you should follow this up so you can be sure things are moving along.
g) You will need to keep the following ready when you see the police person: (i) Letters from 2 neighbors which state complete address, how long they've known you, how long they've lived at that address, that you have good moral character & conduct. Exact dates required. (ii) Copy of your passport (iii) Copy of driving license (iv) Copy of election card. (v) Copy of anything else that the police ask of.
h) Once this verification is completed, the police station will send the papers back to the Commissioner’s Office.
i) You can go back to the Commissioner’s Office a couple of days before the said date, and confirm that they have received all the papers.
j) They will give you the clearance at that point, or ask you to come back on the said date at which point you will be given the PCC.
k) If you need 2 copies (Sometimes you may need to file other immigration related papers for children/dependents, etc., or need PCCs for 2 separate countries), you can submit 2 forms, make payment for each of these forms, and usually the Commissioner’s Office will be OK to issue you 2 PCCs.

NOTE:
1) For address proof, if your passport has the correct address, this will save you a lot of trouble. Election card, driving license also may work. Otherwise, address proof seems to be very subjective matter. What the counters will accept varies vastly depending upon your case, the mood of the person at the front counter, if an agent is involved or not, etc. Address proof in your spouse’s name WILL NOT WORK! If it doesn't cover a 1 year period, it WILL NOT WORK! If it's telephone bills, bank statements, ENSURE THEY ARE BONA-FIDE (i.e. Stamped by the custodian/original issuer)

2) Make sure you know which your local police station is (jurisdiction) before initiating either of the above processes! We've been given a hard time because PSK made a mistake when they forwarded the request to the Commissioner’s Office, and WE GOT YELLED at for their confusion/mistake. It's their job to know all this, but they don’t, and they DONT CARE. Once you know your jurisdiction, Confirm at the PSK counter / Commissioner’s counter WHICH Police Station they will be forwarding the request to.

3) Make sure you keep copies of your receipts and acknowledgements for ALL Applications made to either PSK or to the Commissioner’s office FOREVER! These receipts will have reference numbers and 'Police check required' comments, which may help you later on. Keep these handy when you're at the airport too, to show you have tried your level best to procure all clearances. Keep any challans / slips as well.

4) In general, keep copies of ALL your papers. Challans, application forms, receipts, acknowledgements, any documents that you may need to submit and will not see again.

5) You will need multiple visits to these places, and you'll get turned down many times, so be prepared for this. START YOUR PROCESS AS EARLY AS YOU CAN. Dont wait till the last month to finish your work. Be prepared to be yelled at multiple times at multiple counters. If you get offended when someone yells/talks back at you, please hold off your aggravations, and stretch your patience as much as you can. The work will get done, but a little slower than you'd expect, that's all!

6) The Police people are very helpful with all the white paper work. It was overall a pleasure working with them. You may meet one or two unreasonable persons, but they will still keep your application moving. The PSK on the other hand was not a good experience at all for us. Maybe others have had better experience with them, but not so in our case. So Im guessing that you'll have to show a lot of patience with them.

7) Knowing the local language WILL HELP A LOT. If you don’t know the local language, just go with an agent. It will save you LOADS OF AGONY, even if you have to spend a little more. But, make sure the agent is reliable, and you can get good references for him, OR that he comes from a trusted source. Agents for the PSK PCC may be easy to find, but I haven't come across any for the Commissioner’s Office PCC.

8) The counters at the Police Commissioners office that handle the PCC versus the PSK PCC are different. PSK PCC is electronically transmitted from PSK to Commissioners office. After completing the processing, it's again electronically transmitted back to the PSK office.

9) I have tried to present our experience in detail above. Dealing with government counters is not an easy experience. You discover new rules every day, the list of documents they need changes every 2nd day you go back to the counter, timings are not clear at times (Commissioner office has lunch hours 1:00 to 2:00, during which time they don’t process anything). Some offices are open Saturday, some are not. Do ensure you know all these timings before you go: traffic is never on our side AND parking is not easy. It will save you a few trips at least.

10) Before applying, do ask how the papers will be processed, where they will be sent, etc. so you have a reasonable understanding of where your papers will be at any given point. They will not proactively tell you how the chain-of-events will be and that leaves us very much in the dark. Once you know, every couple of days/weeks, do go to the relevant department/station/office and check with them if they have received/sent the papers to keep things moving along. Don’t go too early, and make sure you’re nice to everyone (Use your intelligent discretion at level best). I may be repeating myself .. but START YOUR PROCESS EARLY, so you give enough room to all offices to move your papers.

More information:
i) In Bangalore, the Commissioner of Police office is on Infantry Road, toward one end. It does not have car parking.
ii) PSK office Sai Arcade is on Outer Ring Road opposite Intel. This PSK does have a car & motorcycle parking in the back, accessible through a little lane 2 buildings across.
iii) Payment for the commissioners PCC to obtain the challan can be made at any one of the numerous "Bangalore One" counters
iv) As of 17 July 2012, the rate for Commissioners PCC is Rs. 200 Non-employment based and Rs. 1000 employment based (These rates may change, or they may be different through other places in India. Or may depend on your particular case)
v) As of 17 July 2012, the rate for PSK PCC is Rs. 500. (These rates may change, or they may be different through other places in India. Or may depend on your particular case)
chimanraoNot TellingIndia7/17/2012 2:48
Asia: SouthNADRA certificate

~~moved to Asia South from IR1/CR1 process and procedures as topic is regionally specific~~


NLRFemaleCanada8/28/2014 21:46
Asia: Southislamabad protest

~Moved from K1 Process to Asia:South Regional Forum~

~Inquiry is country-specific~


A&BMaleChina9/9/2014 13:56
Asia: SouthHow to pay Visa Fee online?

~Moved from K1 Process to Asia:South Regional Forum~

~At this stage of the process, instructions/requirements can be embassy-specific~

 

A&BMaleChina9/25/2014 11:21
Asia: SouthPlease help me K.1 fiance visa /......is islamabad embassy Accept co sponsor ??

~Moved from K1 Process to Asia: South Regional Forum~

~Inquiry is embassy-specific~


A&BMaleChina10/11/2014 15:45
Asia: SouthK1 Suggestions PAKISTAN-UK

No matter what embassy you go through there will be some administrative processing (AP). My Pakistani friend spent 8 months in AP in the UK before he got his visa. Also you have not filed the K-1 yet so it will take time to process your application.

 

Usually it is faster to get a visa in the UK compaired to Pakistan but can you get an extension on your UK visa for 12 or more months that's the question.


carolynhotstuffFemalePakistan10/12/2014 5:26
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals
awesome write-up....
Deep2009Not TellingIndia7/17/2012 8:20
Asia: SouthHow to pay Visa Fee online?

Basing from the info on the embassy website, it seems you have to pay it through HSBC.

 

Here is the link

http://dhaka.usembassy.gov/fees.html


iammrsregiFemalePhilippines9/25/2014 11:44
Asia: SouthI765 Status

Status changed to card production today!!!


Sugheil NawazFemalePakistan9/17/2014 8:52
Asia: SouthPolice certificate for Pakistan

It is clearly written on website that Pakistan police certificate on line record verification is not available but for save side get a certificate for interview day......

 

 

Some thing is good rather than nothing !!!!!!!

 

 

I have done it


FZSAMalePakistan6/18/2014 9:55
Asia: Southanyone who had recent interview in islamabad....

I have a couple question for you guys... my fiancee did her medical exam today.  She didn't have any records of the vaccines she's had in her life so we assumed they would give her vaccines.  But they didn't.  They told her she would only need a polio vaccine (which she has had in the past), but that she would get that at the AIRPORT upon her departure!  Does that sound right?  Then they told her that because of it being a fiancee visa that she would have to get the rest of her vaccines after she arrives in the US.

 

And one other question... are you guys taking a police report to your interviews?  The papers we got said "bring police report - EXCEPT Pakistan and Afghanistan".  So she is not getting a police report.  She went to the police station and they told her even that they could not give her one unless they had orders from the Embassy. 


Jon YorkMalePakistan8/30/2014 0:59
Asia: SouthUS Islamabad situation

Did you guys see the violence in Islamabad tonight?  It was horrible.  Much worse than before.  The embassy surely would have been closed had it been a week day.


Jon YorkMalePakistan8/30/2014 22:54
Asia: Southislamabad protest

I'd like to hear from people who were rescheduled too.  Just curious how long it takes to get rescheduled and how far in the future the new interview date is. 


Jon YorkMalePakistan9/9/2014 20:20
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals

RadhikaE,

 

Have you got your PCC from Commissioner's office already. Does it state the duration of stay at your present address in the PCC form? I am just wondering if getting boith the PCCs will help during the interview....

Also, an update - There is no need to visit the Police Commissioner's office in Bangalore to get the form. They can be downloaded directly from the website link below -

http://ksp.gov.in/do...tionnew eng.pdf

Thanks



 


DipikantMaleIndia7/30/2013 6:27
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals

Sush,

 

I have been reading on VJ that some people have got their PCC both from Commissioner's office & PSK. Do you think it will help us in any way if we get both of them? 

Nope, no police verification if you reside at the same address as the address mentioned in the passport. If not, then it depends on the APO I think. As for what the officer said, I am sorry I cannot help you there as I am not sure if the current format of PCC contains the marital status, mine doesn't. 

 


DipikantMaleIndia7/30/2013 6:24
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals

Thanks Sush. Did they go through the police verification for getting PCC, same as they do when issuing a new passport? I was scared that PCC letters will have my marital status, & I asked this to the officer. He said that your PCC will be issued as Single status, I didn't really understand what he was saying.

Dipikant, I was asked the same question. The PCC doesnt contain the marital status.  I am married but don't have my spouse's name in the passport. I changed it to single at the PSK centre. 

But then again this was almost 10 months ago , I dont know if things have changed since then.

 

Hope it helps.

 


DipikantMaleIndia7/26/2013 22:42
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals

Thanks a lot for this write-up and for the link for the form. It really helped me plan my visit better.

I woke up this morning and decided I would follow approach one to get my PCC. The reason I used this approach was because I would not be able track the application status if I went through the police commissioner's office.
Here are the steps I followed
1) Filled the form online and took a print of the ARN generated receipt
2) Went to the Lalbagh PSK at around 9.40 (There is a very neat parking area next to the office for both cars and motorcycles)
3) Got the Walk-in token number and went in.
4) I was out at 11.30 with 2 letters of PCC signed and stamped by the APO( Assistant Passport officer - Nice lady)

I am shocked(rather pleasantly surprised) at the efficiency with which the whole thing was done, no over crowding, no need to know somebody, nothing.All they asked me was for my old passport to verify if the details were correct.
I read somewhere that if your address is the same as on the passport and that the passport was issued in Bangalore, you will get the letter then and there. This is now confirmed true smile.gif

I would highly recommend going through the PSK rather than the police commissioner's office as the cops I have dealt with , in my locality, are a***s !

Hope everyone experiences the same efficiency I did.
All the best !














Does your PCC letter mentions your spouse name or marital status anywhere? I haven't added spouse's name on my passport & was told at Bangalore PSK that PCC application needs to mention marital status as Single or else to get spouse's name added on passport? just wondering what is a better approach now?


DipikantMaleIndia7/26/2013 13:53
Asia: SouthOriginal birth certificate

I have the same problem. They made copies of everything for USCIS, then sent the originals back to me. It says if they need anything further, they will notify me. But nothing about if they are needed at the embassy for the interviews.

 

Yup, I'm not 100% sure that they require birth certificate at interview. 

Others that went through IR-1 can confirm. 

 

I know for divorce certificate, they wanted the original or certified copy 

at the time of the interview for the fiancee visa.  Though they never asked for it, 

or even looked at it in our case. 


DualityOnenessMaleChina8/15/2014 12:36
Asia: SouthOriginal birth certificate

But if the original is sent, they'll give it back, right? I brought my husband's with me to US but now wondering if I'll have to send it back for his interview.

 

I believe I read somewhere on USCIS site that they do return the originals on certain key documents like birth certificate. 

Let me search and look for that link.

 

It's a hassle to send that back to him...if it's not too much hassle, 

it might be worth him getting another certified copy made and 

bring that to the interview. 

 

These are important documents that is often asked in many situations. 

 

Just my 2 cents on this...


DualityOnenessMaleChina8/15/2014 12:30
Asia: SouthOriginal birth certificate

According to I-130 instruction, you can send the "copy" of birth certificate, 

but you may need to bring the original to the interview. 

 

http://www.uscis.gov.../i-130instr.pdf


DualityOnenessMaleChina8/15/2014 12:24
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals
Thanks for the great post!

Can I use the PCC from Commissioners Office to get a PCC from the PSK for my visa application?

Hope you can answer soon!!
LH&meFemale09/25/2012 3:47
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals
Thank you so much. our I-130 was recently approved and this information is great.
MituFemaleIndia7/17/2012 10:28
Asia: SouthPolice certificate for Pakistan

No more required check travel.state.gov reprocity table for Pakistan


Takingforever12Not TellingPakistan6/17/2014 13:44
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals

you are a LIFE SAVER yaar. kasam se! thanks for all the info. This country doesnt have a bloody straight forward process. Thank you SO much for detailing the steps out!


LanuNot TellingIndia7/11/2013 6:31
Asia: SouthNADRA certificate

Hi Vj friends,


Does anyone know if NADRA Pakistan issues certified copies of birth certificate and marriage certificates for submission to NVC. If it does, are those certified copies acceptable to NVC.


I know they accepted my husband's certified copy of his birth certificate with no problem.  I don't know about marriage certificate, but I would guess there wouldn't be an issue with that either.


nadia&sameerFemalePakistan8/29/2014 10:09
Asia: SouthPakistani man changing name after marriage

It is not costly to change the name for him in Pakistan , it is costly here, but if he will change at this time, it can bring some problems during the immigration process for him.Remember if u r changing ur last name in USA then u have to change ur last name on every thing u have, i.e your educational, properties,banks etc.

It is not costly here as it is changing because of marriage.  I know the fees in Pakistan aren't too high, but the bribes needed to pay the government workers to actually do the work are very costly when they find out he is married to an American woman.  I don't like having to pay someone to do the job the government is already paying them to do.  


nadia&sameerFemalePakistan8/30/2014 11:19
Asia: SouthPakistani man changing name after marriage

Hi, if changed, any thing when he is in Pakistan,then change every thing. If I were u, I will ask him to wait until he will be here.

Thanks for the advice.  I'm getting the feeling that it will be too difficult to get his name changed in Paksitan and probably pretty costly.  I think we may just decide to change my last name instead.


nadia&sameerFemalePakistan8/29/2014 18:24
Asia: SouthPakistani man changing name after marriage

You should check with Nadra first. I don't think they will change your name on the ID card for this reason.

That's what we are thinking too.  I wonder what would happen if all his info had one name here and a different name in Pakistan.  


nadia&sameerFemalePakistan8/29/2014 10:07
Asia: SouthPakistani man changing name after marriage

Hi,

 

Has anyone had the man change his last name after marriage instead of the woman?  We are considering doing that as we both prefer my last name, but I don't know if he'll have any issues with Pakistan.  Would he keep his Nadra/Pakistani passport as is or would he have to change everything in Pakistan to his new name?  Not sure it's worth the headache of dealing with the Pakistani gov't if he'd have to do that.

 

Thanks in advance for your replies.

 

 


nadia&sameerFemalePakistan8/28/2014 20:28
Asia: Southhow would I know my Aos has been approved???

i am struck with ds261 from last two month and today i received of checklist of 2013 tax return of my sponsor which we already submitted. Dont know what they wanted. 


yahya saeedNot TellingPakistan8/19/2014 5:17
Asia: SouthPolice certificate for Pakistan

 

 

I hope you're right, but who know's what they decide to do.. you just never know with them   :(

 

Does EVERYBODY in Pakistan get AP? Or do they still approve a large percentage of visa's directly after interview?

 

I am smiling after reading large percentage :)  sentence from u

 

well i think almost Males are put through AP as far i have been reading. I am not sure if its same for female applicants 


hatedawaitMalePakistan6/19/2014 8:53
Asia: SouthPolice certificate for Pakistan

It is clearly written on website that Pakistan police certificate on line record verification is not available but for save side get a certificate for interview day......

 

 

Some thing is good rather than nothing !!!!!!!

 

 

I have done it

 

 

Did they accept ur certificate?

 

On a side Thought, I believe that there is a reason Why AP's take so long becuz of no requirement of turning in police cert. and so they must be doing their own checks from A to Z of a person by themselves which obviously will take long. I hope they would go back and do like all of their other embassies in the world that require police cert so this long dreaded AP times shorten for us here

 

@Bandaria i also think that if you have been living outside then ur AP times might be shorten as they might not have so much to check on anyways. Wat do u think?


hatedawaitMalePakistan6/18/2014 22:55
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals

Awesome guide! Finally i feel like i am in the right place :)

 

I am confused by which method to get PCC. My visa file(F2A) will soon be completed at NVC and passed to Bombay Centre; and i would be required to show PCC there. So can I choose anyone method(PSK or Commissioner's Office) mentioned in the main post? Or is there a specific method for my case? Do both the ways end up at the same document required for Immigration to US ? 

 

Thanks a lot in advance, and keep up the great work! Much appreciated!! :D


Xerses101Not TellingIndia10/12/2013 12:50
Asia: SouthAP again after READY
My Story

U.S Embassy Islamabad
K1 Fiance Visa 
Petitioner: Female (U.S Citizen)

Case Heading: Immigrant Visa Application
Case Creation Date: 28-Nov-2012
Case Number: ISL2012XXXX20 01
Interview Date Mentioned in Letter: 12-Feb-2013
Interview Date Delayed (for some reasons) to: 19-Mar-2013
Refusal Blue Slip and asked 2 Months Admin Process and requirement of petitioner's tax return docs.
Docs sent on: 25-Mar-2013
Embassy receives docs on: 23-May-2013
Embassy said: your docs received, checked, and found good to support your visa.

From 19-Mar-2013 to 29-Sep-2013 my case was on: "Administrative Processing" with long status message.
and Status Updated Date: was getting changed time to time twice or thrice a month.

On 30-Sep-2013 Case Status: READY
Case Creation Date Changed: 30-Sep-2013
Case Heading Changed from "Immigrant Visa Application" to "Non-Immigrant Visa Application".

Today, it is 03-Dec-2013.
and Status Updated Date: was not changed since 02-Oct-2013.
and since 2 months my case is again on Administrative Processing (but this time with small [3-line] status message).

Please tell me about The END of my story..
with What? and When? Please. Thanx 



























 sad.png 

Attached Files


FarighNot TellingPakistan12/2/2013 17:08
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals
Also, an update - There is no need to visit the Police Commissioner's office in Bangalore to get the form. They can be downloaded directly from the website link below -

http://ksp.gov.in/do...tionnew eng.pdf

Thanks
RadhikaEMaleIndia10/12/2012 10:40
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals
Hi,

Thank you for the awesome post. I am also in the process of getting my PCC from Bangalore and after numerous trips to the local police station, they have just sent the document to the Commissioner's office for uploading so that the PSK can then issue the PCC to me.

I have two questions -

1. Why are there two types of PCC. Will it suffice if I just get the PCC from the PSK?

2. In the G-325A form we mentioned that we also lived in another part of India for 6 months. Do we need to go to the Commsioner's office there also to get another PCC? The problem is that we do not have any proof of address from this other place...we were just staying with friends and do not have any official papers to show that we were residing there....what to do in this case?

Thank you for your opinion on this.
RadhikaEMaleIndia10/11/2012 2:07
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals
rufros, I dont think it would be possible to finish in a month. You'll be lucky if you can. Try to stay in touch with the individuals at every office, and hopefully they may help you out.
chimanraoNot TellingIndia8/22/2012 13:46
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals
Glad if it helps you out!
And of course, one last point I forgot to mention:
The process may turn out to be different in other peoples experience. I've read in other forums that some people have walked into the PSK and gotten their PCC done on the same day! I have no idea how that would be even possible, unless an exception is made. But what we had to go through does seem to be the logical progression/expectation of events to take place..
So if you see anything different, please do share... If you skip some steps, that'll be brilliant!

Best of luck for your applications!
chimanraoNot TellingIndia7/17/2012 11:06
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals

Nope, no police verification if you reside at the same address as the address mentioned in the passport. If not, then it depends on the APO I think. As for what the officer said, I am sorry I cannot help you there as I am not sure if the current format of PCC contains the marital status, mine doesn't. 


SushNot Telling07/27/2013 0:16
Asia: SouthPolice Clearance Certificate (PCC) from Commissioners office and from PSK for Indian nationals

Dipikant, I was asked the same question. The PCC doesnt contain the marital status.  I am married but don't have my spouse's name in the passport. I changed it to single at the PSK centre. 

But then again this was almost 10 months ago , I dont know if things have changed since then.

 

Hope it helps.


SushNot Telling07/26/2013 14:24