ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines
A brief status update: I eventually did manage to get through to the embassy and they told me that we would need a co-sponsor for our K-1 visa application, as my fiancee does not meet the minimum poverty guidelines for a family of two. This was confirmed by an immigration lawyer today. Both pointed out that while self-sponsorship is allowed in some cases by the Department of State, it usually does not fly. Hence, we will either have to find a co-sponsor or eventually go a different route. My fiancee and I are both aware of the K-3 visa but are there any other options?
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-06-16 16:29:00
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines
Well, I managed to find an alternate phone number on this page: <http://dublin.usemba....gov/vis.html>. They charged me $20 and then told me that they could not provide any information regarding (non-)immigrant visas. So much for the Dublin Visa Information Center! They did refer me directly to the embassy and gave me their e-mail address, which is dublincons@state.gov. I had previously e-mailed dublinvisainfounit@state.gov, the e-mail address they state when you work your way through their automated telephone system, but never got a reply. I sent them a lengthy e-mail, which includes a summary of everything I have said here, got it all out in the open, and asked them what would be the best course of action for us. The automated reply said that our e-mail is being processed and that we can expect a reply in two business days.

Regarding self-sponsorship: we wanted to go for a K-3 last year but I did not have the $30000 at the time and I was told that I would not be able to use the house as an asset because it is not something that is readily convertible to cash. I assume the same would be true in the case of self-sponsorship, i.e. I am better off finishing that second apartment so I will have $1400 to $1500 a month in rental income? I figure that that, in and of itself, should be enough to get us through the K-3 process if we should not be able to overcome the hurdles in the K-1 process? What is this CR1 I have seen mentioned elsewhere?
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-04-21 18:09:00
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines

Welcome to the gray area of K1 visas. The non-immigrant visa that is often treated as an immigrant visa.

For example look at the US Consulate Amsterdam website and you will see Finace(e) visas listed under Immigrant visas. http://amsterdam.usc...rant_visas.html Even the State Dept. is playing both sides of the street with the classification.

My assertion is based on the preponderance of posts here on VJ dealing with the I-134 and K1/K3 visas. It's always best to consult the embassy/consulate directly to learn what they expect. That way there are fewer surprises.


Thanks for that link. I found the following on the state.gov website:

"Should K-1 fiancé(e) visa applicants use the I-864 or the I-134?

Since fiancé(e)s are nonimmigrant visa applicants, they should use the I-134. They will need to submit an I-864 to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) when they adjust status to conditional immigrant in the United States after they are married.

Do the same income requirements apply to all immigrant visa applicants even if they use the I-134?

No. The 125 percent minimum income requirement, the most recent year's tax return and other requirements only apply when an I-864 is needed. Applicants using the I-134 will need to show that their sponsor's income is 100 percent of federal poverty guidelines as required under Section 212(a)(4) of the INA."

So, at least officially, we only need 100% of federal poverty guidelines. In either case, 100% of federal poverty guidelines with 1/5th of cash assets or 125% of federal poverty guidelines with 1/3rd of cash assets we should be okay with $30000 in the bank. I will try to get into touch with the embassy just the same though. The problem is that they only offer a fully automated voice system when you call them, which then guides you to an e-mail address if you take the visa option, but they do not write you back when you write them. I guess I will just have to continue to try and try again. :wacko:
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-04-21 01:32:00
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines

[...]
Next using AhnMap's same reasoning as no provisions for a co-cponsor or joint sponsor under the I-134, there is no provision for the use of assets under the I-134 with a given ratio. I do not see in the I-134 where it says the ratio is Assets are 3 times the value of the incom stream. Is that in the I-134 document ?


"What Cash Value of Assets is Needed?

To be counted, the cash value of assets must equal five times the difference between the sponsor's income and 125 percent of the poverty line for the household size.
For example, a petitioner/sponsor with a household size of four and an income of $18,000 would need assets equal to five times the difference between his/her income and the income required for a family of four at the current federal poverty guidelines level. He/she would also need to show evidence of mortgages, liens, and liabilities against the assets.
The cash value of assets required is different for these sponsors:

Sponsors of immediate relative spouses and children of U.S. citizens must only show assets in the amount of three times the difference between the poverty guideline and actual household income.

Sponsors of foreign orphans who will acquire citizenship after admission to the United States need only prove assets in the amount of the difference between the poverty guideline and actual household income."

Immediate relative spouses... I hope that refers to my fiancee and I?
Thanks, Anh map.

Edited by SuicideBlonde, 20 April 2010 - 06:00 PM.

SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-04-20 17:58:00
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines
Nik+Heather,

I bought a duplex in September of 2007 for $113000. I was able to send the whole sum from my Belgian bank account to an American one, directly, without a problem. I bought the house using two personal loans (not possible to get a mortgage for foreign property in Belgium), one of which I will be paying for another 2.5 years, and the other one for another 3.5 years. I have to pay $800 for each of them on a monthly basis but as far as the US government is concerned I own the house outright, without any mortgages in the US.

I looked into self-sponsorship previously and it seems that only a few consulates allow it and even then only for select cases. The one in London is known for that, for instance, but I could not find anything about the one in Dublin.

If self-sponsorship is not possible (at this time I can only assume it is not, until proven otherwise) then the only possible course of action is to put the necessary funds directly into my fiancee's bank account. Can't we just provide a letter with an explanation to accompany the I-134, and perhaps also a notarized copy of my house deed as well a statement from my property rental agency, just to show that I would have liked to self-sponsor myself as well as to drive the point home that with the rental income coming my way there is no way I could become a burden to the state. If I have my own house, which will be rented out, and I put $30000 into her bank account... What more could they possibly expect?
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-04-20 17:49:00
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines
Audy_Rob, I thought the I-864 pertained to the K-3 and that the I-134 pertains to the K-1? The whole idea was to put enough money in my fiancee's bank account (which she opened for exactly that purpose last week) for us to meet the minimum poverty guidelines in the first place. Now I am being told that that is not the best of ideas. I am the alien fiancee. Is it 1/3rd or 1/5th now? I am confused.
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-04-20 16:12:00
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines
Co-sponsorship, unfortunately, is not an option.
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-04-20 13:24:00
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines
Thanks everyone! That's great news! My fiancee already opened a checking account and I intended to deposit the money in there. Now you are saying they might see that as a buyoff though? We have known each other for over 2 years and just want to start a life together. House, kid(s), the works... She cannot meet the I-134 requirements on her own due to her being on SSDI so I have to contribute as well. It's only normal that I supplement whatever is missing then? Jesus Christ, the only thing that should show is how far I'm willing to go to be together with her. I don't see a difference with sponsoring myself? We have the funds to prove that I will not become a burden to the state and that should be that. I already asked the Dublin embassy (I work in Dublin, Ireland). They cannot be contacted directly but instead give you an e-mail address that one should write to. I did, but they never replied. :(

I was going to send her the funds this week. What is the deadline for the I-134 if I may ask? I thought the only requirement was that the money would be 'seasoned', i.e. at least 3 months in the bank account?
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-04-20 13:21:00
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines
Thank you for your reply. So if I understand it correctly we will have a shortage of ($14570 * 1.25) - ($884 * 12) - ($30000 / 5) = $1605. Multiply that by 5 and we get to $8025, which is the sum I would have to come up with in addition to the $30000. Either that, or my fiancee would need to have ($1605 / 12) = $133.75 of extra income every month. Is that correct?
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-04-20 12:00:00
US Embassy and Consulate DiscussionFederal poverty guidelines
My fiancee (the suicide blonde B-))'s only source of income is $884 a month in SSDI (i.e. she used to work but is now disabled) and another $120 or so in food stamps (she will lose the latter but not the former when we will get married). The federal poverty guideline:

[Persons in family: Poverty guideline]
1: $10,830 ($13,538 @ 125%)
2: 14,570 ($18,213 @ 125%)

I have a couple of questions regarding this:

1) Does the "Persons in family" column include the sponsor by default, i.e. is the number of persons for whom the poverty guideline has to be reached always 2 in the context of the K-1 visa?
2) My fiancee only has $884 * 12 = $10608 of income on a yearly basis. However, I just sold some real estate worth $30000 and will put this money in her bank account. Should that be enough to get us through the I-134 part of our application or will more be required? I own two apartments in the United States, one of which will be rented out through a property rental agency at $700 a month (12 month lease). The other one is unfinished and will not be rented out until the first quarter of next year.
3) Our I-129F package was sent two weeks ago. Will the $30000 have enough time to 'mature' in her bank account before the I-134 will have to be sent ? I believe any sum needs to have been in a bank account for at least 3 months?

I read elsewhere that some embassies (e.g. the London one) would allow me to prove that I will not become a burden to the state myself (rather than putting that burden on my fiancee, whose only source of income is SSDI). I have a house with a deed value of $118000 in the US, which will soon be let for $700 a month, and $30000 in the bank. I currently work as a systems analyst for Microsoft, with 10 years of previous experience as a systems and network administrator. I have never been fired from any job and have only ever been out of a job for 5 months, 3 months of which (the whole 90 days of the Visa Waiver) I spent in the US working on my house and with my then girlfriend.

What would be the best course of action for the two of us?
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-04-19 17:29:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresDo I need duplicates of my Fee Waiver info.?
A petitioner could, for example, be receiving SSI or SSDI, in which they might qualify for a fee waiver, yet still meet 125% of the minimum poverty guidelines, or the beneficiary's consulate may consider the petitioner's position and allow self-sponsorship of the beneficiary. I think.
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-03-12 17:01:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresCalling all K-1 petitioners and former petitioners
Hi defs69,

Looks good to me. :thumbs:
Good luck. :)
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-19 17:40:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresFrom K-1 to K-3, or ... ?
Hi Valerie,

From a previous thread (http://www.visajourn...rty-guidelines/):

"[..]please please please be aware that any financial transactions are ambiguous, and can be cast in different lights dependent only on the viewpoint of the observer. To you, what you are doing seems perfectly normal. To an immigration officer whose JOB it is to FIND FRAUD, this will be a red flag. As your ability to get the visa depends on the CO's decision, and not your feelings on the subject, I would caution you strongly to avoid this as it can be construed in a very negative light. You can get to the same end by a different and more commonly used means: Self sponsorship. Please research this.

Your fiancee just opened an account, and you're putting in 3x her annual income. Just think about that from a 3rd party perspective for a moment. Surely you can see how fishy it might seem to someone who knows neither one of you?"

and

"If the I-134 requirements cannot be met (and/or a co-sponsor cannot be found) you could consider marrying and having your then spouse submit a CR1 spouse visa petition. This process would utilize the I-864 where your assets can be applied."

The issue is I will only have $24k by the end of the year + $400 in rent every month. I do not know if rent could be used towards the I-864. A renter could step up and leave at any given moment, after all, even when there is a 1 year lease. I also remember from a thread I opened last year that I wouldn't be able to use my house as income, as the income you use towards the I-864 supposedly needs to be readily convertible to cash. On page 2 of the I-864 "The value of your assets, the assets of any household member who has signed a Form I-864A, or the assets of theintending immigrant" is mentioned, plain and simple, so one would think I would be able to use *all* assets, both liquid and solid, towards the I-864. It also states: "Assets may supplement income if the consular or immigration officer is convinced that the monetary value of the asset could reasonably be made available to support the sponsored immigrant and converted to cash within one year without undue harm to the sponsor or his or her family members. You may not include an automobile unless you show that you own at least one working automobile that you have not included." A house could be sold and converted to cash within one year, right?
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-19 17:27:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresFrom K-1 to K-3, or ... ?
Hi Valerie,

SSDI = Social Security Disability Insurance/Income. She receives about $10k every year. The minimum requirement for the affidavit for her is $14k. Yes, a stupid $4k is keeping us apart. Just the idea of me becoming a burden of the state is just plain ridiculous. I have never been, and will never be a burden to any state. :help:
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-19 16:01:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresFrom K-1 to K-3, or ... ?
Hi Valerie,

Not spooky. Schmoopy is my fiancee. :) I just thought I would fully explain our current situation and especially the financial part of things. I guess I should have done that in her thread. Do you have any suggestions given the information I have provided above? (do not meet the affidavit of support requirements, no sponsor)
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-19 15:48:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresFrom K-1 to K-3, or ... ?
My fiancee and I (she is the petitioner) filed for a K-1 in April. They received the documents on April 20, so tomorrow it will have been 3 months since we embarked on this journey. Our main issue is that the only source of income for her is SSDI. Hence, there is no way for her to prove that she has enough income to ensure I will not become a burden to the state. Neither her mother or her sister are willing to sponsor us at this point so we are in a bit of a bind. I do have $28k in the bank, as well as a duplex in Florida which I own outright and of which the downstairs unit is currently occupied by a renter (as of July 1, with a 1 year lease). The rent at this point in time is only $550, and what ends up in my bank account is only about $400 every month. The upstairs unit will not be ready for rent until February of next year.

Because it seems pointless to wait another few months, only to have our application turned down due to the lack of a sponsor, we have been wondering whether or not we should void it and go for a K-3 or other visa instead. We want to get married and continue our life together in the U.S. It is that simple. I do not know if there are any other options besides the K-3 (perhaps there are lawyer firms or other establishments that would sponsor people in return for collateral and a certain fee?). It would certainly be preferable to continue on our current course so we may be together sooner rather than later. My fiancee and I would love to hear your thoughts on this matter.

Edited by SuicideBlonde, 19 July 2010 - 03:30 PM.

SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-19 15:29:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresHow do you stop the K-1 Visa processing?

That was ME, in another topic, with the caveat that YOU should check in with the EMBASSY IV Unit, ask if they ALLOW SELF-SPONSERING on an I-134 for a K-1 visa. I never said 'should be able' - I was adamant that you inquire.

You really should do that, ya know. Should clear up a lot of silliness.

Going forward, if you ARE allowed to self-sponser, then you've overcome even more silliness.

INQUIRE.

and Good Luck !


I already pointed out a number of times that I did in fact inquire and that they told me that they do generally not make any exceptions but that it is totally up to the Department of State and not the embassy itself whether or not self-sponsoring will be allowed. Hence, we did not learn anything really and remain in the dark. How would you feel if you were in the same situation? What's silly is that two people who want to be together and definitely have enough assets between the two of them have to live with such uncertainty. It's a good thing to know that we will be together before the end of next year though, no matter what.

Thanks for your reply, and your concern. It's much appreciated, as is everybody else's input.
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-24 14:52:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresHow do you stop the K-1 Visa processing?

Yes it should when taxpayers could wind up having to pay for your heart. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I don't think it's a good idea when someone can barely support themselves to then bring another person who will be dependent on their income for at least a few months. I hope everyone here who needs a co-sponsor is able to find one willing to help out. But I don't want my tax dollars to become the co-sponsor for people who weren't financially able to support themselves.


New Beginnings,

I can support myself perfectly fine, thank you very much. And my fiancee can support herself perfectly fine as well, for that matter. I have $28k in the bank and a duplex occupied by renters - in the United States. I have been paying thousands of dollars in house taxes, as much as any other property owning American, even though I do not live there right now. So in a way I have been co-sponsoring you. :yes:
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-24 08:39:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresHow do you stop the K-1 Visa processing?
Lesley,

I can see how it may all seem suspicious to an outsider, but things get a bit complex when the petitioner cannot meet 125% of the poverty guidelines. We want to be together and will do anything possible to achieve that goal. That includes going off on the wildest tangents and brainstorming them with you guys. Yes, we have had our problems together, more so than some but certainly less than others, and yes, it probably should not have spilt onto VJ. I apologize for my part in the matter, and hope you will let it rest from now on. Schmoopy and I have known each other for 2 years, 6 months and 28 days now. We can both get very emotional sometimes but we have stood by each other through thick and thin and we intend to do that for a very long time to come. We have already talked about a house, kids, etc. I even brought up the fine china with her this morning. I agree that the rules are in place for a reason but I think it is not very logical to put the burden of proof solely on the petitioner when the beneficiary has plenty of liquid assets and real estate in the U.S. , worth more than the $7528 * 3 required to make up the difference, which the U.S. government could get their hands on if need be. Things are the way they are though, but I hope they will consider all that when we will send in the I-134 in the course of our K-1 journey.
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-24 08:09:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresHow do you stop the K-1 Visa processing?

Since only the USC can self-sponsor, is it an option to have the $28K transferred to her bank account for the purpose of sponsoring him?


@Carol and Bruno: that was the general plan back when I opened this thread: http://www.visajourn...rty-guidelines/. However, it was seriously advised against as putting three times her annual income into her account would raise a red flag with USCIS. Even if that assertion would be wrong, it would be pointless to move the money into her account now as the money needs be "seasoned", i.e. it needs to have been in the same account for at least 6 months before it can be used towards the I-134. In that regard the long delay towards NOA2 is a blessing as the money did not get into my U.S. bank account until March. Given that everyone says to stick with the K-1 we should probably do just that. We will investigate the CR-1 option though. Someone here pointed out that we should be able to use my personal assets towards the K-1, given that it is all in the U.S. (I've owned the house for 3 years now). It's unfortunate that this is such a grey area. It would make sense, to me at least, to allow the petitioner and the beneficiary to prove that their combined income would ensure that neither of them are at risk of becoming a burden to the State. Bureaucracy should not stand in the way of the heart.
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-20 08:00:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresHow do you stop the K-1 Visa processing?
Hi,

Yes, schmoopy is my fiancee. She is the U.S. petitioner. I am in Dublin, Ireland. We already checked with the Dublin embassy earlier this year and they said that I-134 self-sponsorship is completely out of their hands and up to the Department of State. They emphasized the importance of having a sponsor in our particular case. We already fleshed out the income requirements for us in the following thread and established that we would need $22850 (125% of the guidelines minus her SSDI times 3) for the K-1, if self-sponsorship would be allowed. The amount would be the same for the K-3 according to people in that thread so we would be good either way. I will check on K-3 specifics today just to be on the safe side. We don't know anyone in the U.S. who would be willing to sponsor, so that option is out. Don't worry about my outrageous question in that regard as it was mainly meant to elicit a response and consequently a discussion (although it would certainly be nice to have a saviour step up and save the day for us :lol: ), which it did. Many thanks for your replies.

@Tater&#######: why do you write "Point short, you'd be denied regardless if that's your real concern. If your real concern is time and you just want to be together than stay on the path you're on. It's the best one."

How would we be denied with a K-3?
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-20 02:41:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresHow do you stop the K-1 Visa processing?

So are you talking about the beneficiary coming to America and the pair of you marrying and then applying for a K3? If so, you are breaking the law, bringing your partner to America to intentionally get married is illegal. Also, even if you apply for a K3 you need to ensure that the petitioner has enough money to support there partner. A K3 can still be denied and then you will be apart for longer. I do not think you have looked into this properly. Work on trying to find a co-sponsor.

It took 7 months for my fiance and I to receive our visa, was it hard to be away from each other? Of course! Are we in a better position to be together for the rest of our lives and live happily in America now that we have gone down the right route - definately!

Think about it before you cancel it.


Lesley,

We would get married in September, I would return to Europe and we would then file for the K-3. Her mom and her sister are not willing to co-sponsor and she does not have any friends who are in a position to do so. It would be a shame because we have already been waiting 92 days for our NOA2 but I cannot see how we could possibly find someone else who would be willing to be a sponsor for us. If someone here would be willing to step forward and help us out that would be great. Nobody knows us though so why would they? Perhaps with a contract drawn up by a lawyer and a certain amount of money held in escrow. I do not know. With a house and $28k in the bank I could easily self-sponsor but the embassy told us that it is up to the State Department to make an exception like that. We will have been apart for 7 months already when I will return in September. I will return for a whole month in January but God knows for how much longer we will be apart after that yet again if we should go the K-3 route. Yes, I know, we should probably have gone the K-3 route straightaway but we mistakenly thought that I would be able to self-sponsor with the K-1. If anyone has any suggestions that could help us get out of our predicament we would be much obliged.
SuicideBlondeNot TellingNetherlands2010-07-19 19:30:00