ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
Middle East and North AfricaMuta marriage in Egypt
I guess you aren't the critical thinker you set yourself up to be. Too bad, without the unnessessary jabs at a particular marriage you have some interesting perspectives.
PeikkoMale02008-04-20 12:31:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuta marriage in Egypt
QUOTE
I wouldn't say one side is innocent though, I think both are talking disrespectfully to each other unfortunately.
I have referenced that the other person should examine why they feel so threatened by an examination of the facts. However, VW has set herself up as the educator, so as such she should realise that to keep referencing this one case to illustrate her arguement is unneccassarily provocotive.
PeikkoMale02008-04-20 12:18:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuta marriage in Egypt
QUOTE
This is a discussion about what constitutes a valid marriage in Islam. Unless you have a substantive contribution to make about this subject, you are merely creating drama.


That was a substantive contribution, stick to the arguments and stop picking on one particular marriage to prove your argument, it's not that hard to do.
PeikkoMale02008-04-20 12:11:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuta marriage in Egypt
QUOTE
As it is, Mohamed and Melinda, knowing nothing about how the law is applied in Egypt, haev a worthless piece of paper. There is nothing besides a lawyer's assurance that it is valid. It is untested in court, the only way to know if it conforms withe law as enforcable is to register it and have it evaluated for validity according to the standards of the regional madhab.


This paragraph is completely irrelevant to understanding the discourse - quite simply, VW wants to be right about this particular marriage and one has to ask, why? Why does it matter to her?
PeikkoMale02008-04-20 12:07:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuta marriage in Egypt
There is a problem and outsiders can see it very well. Rather than keeping to facts, you keep interjecting references to a particular marriage. That they continue to react to your jibes is regretable because that is the only thing that is keeping steam pouring out of this kettle.

You have very definintly just accused Mohamed of not being an honerable man, that is indefencable if you are trying to educate as apposed to berate.
PeikkoMale02008-04-20 12:02:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuta marriage in Egypt
The problems could be avoided if people talked about the principles involved rather than accusing particualar people of having 'bogus marriages' and speculating and injecting their own opinions as to why these particular people have engaged in such a marriage. Education is not about smugly sitting in one's ivory tower and finger pointing.

Conversely, those who might feel threatened by an honest discussion might do well to examine why they feel so threatened.

Edited by Purple_Hibiscus, 20 April 2008 - 11:39 AM.

PeikkoMale02008-04-20 11:36:00
Middle East and North Africamarriage between muslim women and non muslim men . HALAL or Haram
Things one can learn about Muslim marriage from this thread:

Being married to a Muslim is a contest - the rules are vague but the goal is to be seen as the couple most pleasing to god.

The rules that I have managed to understand so far:

Being a muslim man married to a non muslim women is pleasing to god. If you are a muslim man, accusing non muslim women married to muslim men of being unislamic is pleasing to god.

Being a non muslim woman married to a muslim man is not pleasing to god, except when it is. If you are in this position and you are the non musilm woman, agressively defending yourself against naysayers is pleasing to god. It is particularly pleasing if you can insult the naysayer, feel sorry for their spouse (wife) and pray the wife has a happy marriage (clearly the wife will not!).

Couples are at all times encouraged to defend their own marriages while at the same time spitting on the marriage of others. It is especially pleasing to god if you can insinuate that some one elses marriage wasn't a blessed union entered into because of mutual attraction and love but just a way to have sex without eliciting the wrath of god.

If you have researched the Quran and can use its text to boastfully claim that only you are worthy to enter into a truly sacred marraige, this is very pleasing to god.

If you can cut and paste long, disjointed passages from the internet that appear to suggest that you are right, this is pleasing to god.

There is more but I am still learning.

Edited by Purple_Hibiscus, 21 April 2008 - 03:53 PM.

PeikkoMale02008-04-21 15:51:00
Middle East and North Africamarriage between muslim women and non muslim men . HALAL or Haram
On the same page? I doubt it, seems that too many want to fight over the pages and don't care if the pages get ripped in the process so long as they get a good sized piece of the page and better yet, recognition from their friends that they have the good piece of the page.
PeikkoMale02008-04-21 14:26:00
Middle East and North Africamarriage between muslim women and non muslim men . HALAL or Haram
Living by sets of rules one doesn't understand and only partially agree with seems to be a root cause of a lot of these disagreements but that's just an observation from the outside.

I would have thought the most spiritual course would be to take care of one's own house, make sure it is in order and be happy in it, and really not worry about what is going on in the houses all around - so long as those in the other houses don't come in and re-arrange all your furniture of course laughing.gif
PeikkoMale02008-04-21 14:08:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow to Make your husband Happy
Less traditional would be fine, but 'sinners'? Does this mean that these rules are commonly accepted by muslims because it is a true reflection of what one should strive for in a muslim marriage? Or, have they become accepted because these countries are very patriarchal and it has been 'convenient' to interpret them in a way that allows for the men to retain power not only within the home but on the Political scene as well?

One would certainly hope that there is room for women to grow within moslem marriages and that the interpretations as laid out from the OP's first post are the result of expediency rather than that this is in fact the correct way to conduct oneself within a muslim marriage.
PeikkoMale02008-04-23 13:15:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow to Make your husband Happy
I am a bit surprised that the focus is purely on whether or not it is ok to hit a woman. Clearly the rules as laid out were much more far reaching. Essentially the man acts as the 'parent' in the marriage, the wife is a rather 'simple' child who relies on the husband for everything and who isn't allowed to complain if she is not satisfied with how she is provided for.

I would rather hope that no one would knowingly enter into a marriage of that type in the 21st Century, and would further hope that these rules are not really an example of how muslims are expected to behave when married.

Edited by Purple_Hibiscus, 23 April 2008 - 01:03 PM.

PeikkoMale02008-04-23 13:02:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow to Make your husband Happy
I can only assume that these rules are merely a poor interpretation of what the Qur'aan advocates, if indeed it does provide rules for a successful muslim marriage.

Any rules that apply unequally are at risk of producing a dominant/supplicant relationship - the rules as presented are no exception. The rules would place the man in domination over the women, all be it if followed in conjunction with the rules for the wife this domination would be implemented kindly.

The rules appear to indicate that only the man in the relationship is capable of fully understanding the rules and it is his duty to remind the woman of her duties and punish her when she fails to follow them. It appears to assume that in all cases the wife will be less intelligent, less intelectually capable than the man. The rules appear to promote the idea that that wife is almost certainly a little 'simple' in the head.

It appears to be the man's duty to ensure that the wife doesn't stray down a sinful path, almost as if he is allowed to assume a position of spiritual authority over her. This point is emphasised by the proclamation that more women than men end up in hell, presumably because they are by their very nature more prone to sin and less able to understand that what they are doing is sinful.

There is nothing about these rules that promotes the idea that marriage is a partnership with equal benefits and responsibilities.
PeikkoMale02008-04-22 11:00:00
Middle East and North AfricaHappy Birthday JENN!

PeikkoMale02008-06-27 12:19:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow is your spouse adjusting
QUOTE (ME~n~HIM @ Jul 17 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Purple_Hibiscus @ Jul 17 2008, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's not what I meant. Can you honstly say you would have looked at the idea of becoming a muslim if you hadn't found love with someone of that faith? Your personal story is of course unusual because you went through with it even while you weren't sure you would ever meet him again but that doesn't change the fact that it was through a love affair that you found Islam.

I am not suggesting that anyone's SO's held them at gunpoint or even mentally manipulated them (although I am sure that does happen sometimes) but to say you did it simply for yourself is surprising.

Yes, I can... and did. I had many Muslim friends long before I ever even met my husband. I had 2 copies of the Qu'ran and a cd of Qu'ran recitation that were given to me by a friend b/c I had inquired and was asking questions of her. I have always had an interest in world religions and have studied many (some much more deeply than others). I decided last year during Ramadan that I was ready to say shahada. My husband only spoke to me about it when I would ask him questions. So, let's see, I had an interest in Islam for about 4 years before I even knew my husband, then we had been married for almost a year (w/o him even knowing much about me studying Islam) before I decided it was what my heart yearned for.




So, in your case you are one of the "I was intererested in Islam therefore I was more likely to meet a muslim to marry" cases rather than the other way around.
PeikkoMale02008-07-17 13:06:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow is your spouse adjusting
That's ok, in this case I think I should have used quotes because the first part of the question was directed at Bridgit and the 'conversion' part at you really. However, it's all good.
PeikkoMale02008-07-17 13:00:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow is your spouse adjusting
Ah, context is everything. Interesting, thank you for responding.

Now, the big question is, are you the exceptions or the rules?
PeikkoMale02008-07-17 12:57:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow is your spouse adjusting
Yes, it makes sense, no one would say you definitely would not but I would be surprised if many looked at Islam without this incentive.

Are you saying personally that you were attracted to the muslim culture anyway and that this is probably why you ended up with a muslim husband in your particular case?

I am just curious about this, feel free to not answer if it bothers you.

I don't think people change religion all the time at all, in fact I believe it is quite rare to change. It is not rare to lapse however, not rare at all.
PeikkoMale02008-07-17 12:47:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow is your spouse adjusting
That's not what I meant. Can you honstly say you would have looked at the idea of becoming a muslim if you hadn't found love with someone of that faith? Your personal story is of course unusual because you went through with it even while you weren't sure you would ever meet him again but that doesn't change the fact that it was through a love affair that you found Islam.

I am not suggesting that anyone's SO's held them at gunpoint or even mentally manipulated them (although I am sure that does happen sometimes) but to say you did it simply for yourself is surprising.
PeikkoMale02008-07-17 12:34:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow is your spouse adjusting
I can't imagine any of you guys converting to Islam if you weren't married to someone from MENA so to say that you are doing it for 'yourselves' is probably not entirely honest. Had someone converted to Islam and then found a MENA husband then that's a diff kettle of fish entirely.

Not that it matters one way or another of course, but I would bear that in mind if I was trying to be really honest with myself about the reasons I changed my religious beliefs.

As for that poor girl Wahriania, bless her (non religiously because I am not) pregnant and in conflict with her SO? That's just very sad.
PeikkoMale02008-07-17 12:02:00
Middle East and North AfricaWhy do VJ MENA members fight so much with each other?
I think they'll get bored soon and quit. It's not like pretending to be some complete moron who is anti everthing and baiting particular members is that entertaining if you are over 30, which I think they are.
PeikkoMale02008-07-17 13:03:00
Middle East and North AfricaWhy do VJ MENA members fight so much with each other?
I think this person is a MENA girl. However, I could be wrong of course.
PeikkoMale02008-07-17 12:05:00
Middle East and North AfricaMENA User_names
No.
PeikkoMale02008-07-21 21:54:00
Middle East and North Africawhat's wrong with getting married during the first trip?
You can always tell those who aren't really looking for information/advice but are simply asking for people to validate a decision they have already made. smile.gif
PeikkoMale02008-10-26 13:59:00
Middle East and North AfricaMahr - What Determines Worth?
It's still basically a woman's perspective too. I guess there just aren't that many MENA men around to post - that's not to say I think one thing or another, but men are much more visual creatures when it comes to sex than women. Of course, when it comes to beauty it is always in the eyes of the beholder which is to be remembered.
PeikkoMale02008-11-19 15:33:00
Middle East and North AfricaMahr - What Determines Worth?
QUOTE (Ash * Habibati @ Nov 18 2008, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think some mena male perspective could be very interesting and add a lot of useful insight to this thread. Good call Madame Cleo (hehe that user id makes me giggle laughing.gif )

QUOTE (Madame Cleo @ Nov 18 2008, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, we've had the view of what the MENA women think about Mahr, but as it's the man that pays it, surely it's more about how the man views the 'worth' of the women than the other way around?




Hehehe, not the siggy, I am ####### at spelling. Yeah, I don't even believe in fortune telling either smile.gif

Edited by Madame Cleo, 18 November 2008 - 04:16 PM.

PeikkoMale02008-11-18 16:11:00
Middle East and North AfricaMahr - What Determines Worth?
Well, we've had the view of what the MENA women think about Mahr, but as it's the man that pays it, surely it's more about how the man views the 'worth' of the women than the other way around?
PeikkoMale02008-11-18 15:37:00
Middle East and North AfricaLinks between Islam and Terrorism
Today is Sunday - I have to work tomorrow.
PeikkoMale02008-11-30 14:33:00
IR-1 / CR-1 Spouse Visa Process & ProceduresWe got RFE!
QUOTE (*Len* @ Feb 23 2009, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Isn't being back on child support grounds for denial?

QUOTE (jiskat08 @ Feb 23 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My husband got his mail today from USCIS about RFE.

They were asking about the birth certificate of my husband since we submitted the birth certificate that was released from the hospital.
They want a copy release from the civil registrar.

Question 1: How long does it take for the birth cert to be release?

They were also asking about the passport of my husband since we didn't submit the passport because it was revoked upto this time due to debt to child support.

Question 2: Can we submit a photocopy of my husband's revoked passport? Since they know my husband's SSN - they just want to know if my husband is a USC.


Please help us since the due date is March 19, 2009... We have 2 weeks to go to get all these docs..


Many thanks!




No Len, it is not, and nor should it be. I have experience with this situation as I told you the first time this poster asked for advice and it does not necessarily follow that someone who is behind on child support is an irresponsible #######.
PeikkoMale02009-02-24 09:04:00
IR-1 / CR-1 Spouse Visa Process & ProceduresA Question Regarding DS-3032 form
Yay, we have a case no and the docs were sent out on Jan 16, another step forward!

Edited by Purple_Hibiscus, 01 February 2006 - 02:22 AM.

PeikkoMale02006-02-01 02:21:00
IR-1 / CR-1 Spouse Visa Process & ProceduresA Question Regarding DS-3032 form

NVC send the DS3032 to you and a copy to your wife. I received mine this week. Hubby in US hasnt heard from them with his copy yet. Go Royal Mail. :dance:

Call NVC automated response line and at first you will hear the date they receive your case file and an nvc receipt number. The message changes as and when they send/receive paperwork.

001 603 334 0700.

Good luck.

with best wishes, daisy


Can I ask when you recieved your NOA2? Ok, just spotted it, January 06! Sorry :blush:

Edited by Purple_Hibiscus, 01 February 2006 - 02:04 AM.

PeikkoMale02006-02-01 02:03:00
IR-1 / CR-1 Spouse Visa Process & ProceduresI-130 approved before 1-129F
Essentially, the one which is best is the one which suits your purpose best. As has been said, the K3 will probably still get you to the USA faster than the CR/IR1. However, you will still have to go through the AOS process. The CR/IR1 will probably take a bit longer but you are all set once you have it, choice is yours. Good luck :)
PeikkoMale02006-04-17 19:29:00
IR-1 / CR-1 Spouse Visa Process & Proceduresk3 and back for cr1
Erm, you get an A# at POE on K3? I don't think I did, hmmmm
PeikkoMale02006-02-03 19:26:00
IR-1 / CR-1 Spouse Visa Process & ProceduresAnyone here done K3 and followed up with CR-1?
Echo the above, Euro did this, and it worked out very well for her. It might be worth while checking where your local office is and what the usual time frames are for AOS, if the time frame is an important factor.

I had thought of doing this too, but in the end went through AOS in SoCal which took approx 3 months.

Good luck with your decision.

Bear in mind that you don't have to decide any time soon either way :)
PeikkoMale02006-09-24 13:29:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresCost at interview
Interesting question. When you stand outside the Embassy in the queue they insist that you must pay your visa fees before entering the building and even randomly look at your pay slips, or at least there was someone doing that the the day I went in.

However, although I did have one payslip, I was applying for two Visa's (K4 as well as K3) and as they had only sent one payslip I had only paid for one.

Anyway, come the time to be called to the window to hand over all my docs I was asked for the pay slips and I explained I had ony been sent one. The guy appologised for not sending out the second slip and said it wasn't a problem I could pay there as they had a cashier. He handed me the paperwork and sent me to another window. I handed over the slip and the woman calculated the days exchange rate for the visa ammount and it worked out at 56 pounds instead of the 60 that I had paid for the other one.

Just how things happened for me, can't say what would happen in another situation.
PeikkoMale02006-01-29 03:11:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresPLEASE HELP US! K-1 QUESTIONS
QUOTE (pushbrk @ Feb 1 2009, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (bolshoibooze @ Feb 1 2009, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Madame Cleo @ Feb 1 2009, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With the guy being a member of the armed forces, his ties to his home country are pretty secure so I would imagine even if he was to say he was entering the US to get married before returning to his military unit the chances are very slim that he would be denied entry.

There is absolutely no problem with coming to the US to get married as has been said many, many times and it is of course perfectly legal. What is illegal is to come to the US planning on getting married and then staying to adjust status to become a legal permanent resident. That is only legal IF one enters the US with absolutely no intention of getting married and the marriage just comes about as a natural course of events that take place AFTER entering the US. That is obviously not going to happen in this case because of the non USC's military ties so it's very hard to see that the OP's partner will have any problems or difficulties on this score.



So, if you want to get married sooner rather than later, get it organized and good luck to you guys and a safe tour of duty to the OP's partner.


We're not planning to stay in the US after we wed. We are simply getting married here to avoid breaking my family's heart.
I don't want to lie to anyone. Neither one of us do. We just want me to be able to live on base housing with him while he is stationed overseas.

We had heard that we might be able to get married first and then file the paperwork later, but we were unsure about how reliable the information we were getting was, so I decided to ask you guys because you have all been through this kind of situation before.

Seriously, I can not thank you all enough for taking the time to read my question and offer your wisdom. Xxx

Sincerely,
Candi


And you'll be fine, even if more specific questions are asked, just be prepared to answer truthfully and show evidence of his active duty status and perhaps the arrangements that have been made for you to live on base with him abroad. Active duty military with housing arrangements is going to satisfy any CBP agent that the presumption of immigrant intent doesn't apply in this case.

Follow this guide for visits.

http://www.visajourn...mp;page=k1visit


She isn't going to be asked anything. All questions are asked at POE BEFORE entry into the US. The USC will be obliviously waiting on the US side of the barrier hoping her fiance doesn't run into any problems. I am glad to see however, that you noticed that the OP's significant other is currently serving in the military and as such is not going to be raising red flags at POE. The non USC's ties to their home country are the most important evidence of intent in these situatins. For the most part having proof of a permanent job with a date one is due back to work perhaps a letter from one's manager, owning a home etc are suffient in and of themselves, however, being in the armed forces one is not in a position to just 'change one's mind' which will pretty much seal the deal on this occasion.

Good luck with your journey Candi, it can be a long one, but ultimately it will be very rewarding smile.gif

Edited by Madame Cleo, 01 February 2009 - 11:42 PM.

PeikkoMale02009-02-01 23:40:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresPLEASE HELP US! K-1 QUESTIONS
With the guy being a member of the armed forces, his ties to his home country are pretty secure so I would imagine even if he was to say he was entering the US to get married before returning to his military unit the chances are very slim that he would be denied entry.

There is absolutely no problem with coming to the US to get married as has been said many, many times and it is of course perfectly legal. What is illegal is to come to the US planning on getting married and then staying to adjust status to become a legal permanent resident. That is only legal IF one enters the US with absolutely no intention of getting married and the marriage just comes about as a natural course of events that take place AFTER entering the US. That is obviously not going to happen in this case because of the non USC's military ties so it's very hard to see that the OP's partner will have any problems or difficulties on this score.



So, if you want to get married sooner rather than later, get it organized and good luck to you guys and a safe tour of duty to the OP's partner.
PeikkoMale02009-02-01 19:56:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresGot denied on my interview b'coz of not having my decision yet at the court from my previous marriage
Way to go off subject...

I am wondering if this thread needs moderation intervention as this is less than useful to the OP and her original question.

Unless someone has definitive proof that that IN ALL CASES if a non USC stipulates on a USICS document that they are divorced, when in fact they are still waiting for the divorce to be finalized, the non USC will always be banned for life from any Visa process all judgments on how USICS will evaluate this situation are mere speculation.

The OP never intended to pass herself off as single and marry illegally. She had no intention of providing false documents or presenting herself as never having married. We know that because she did not turn up to her interview with forged documents nor did she attempt to lie at interview. So she ###### up on the application and obviously she will have to accept the consequences of that action - whatever those consequences really are.

The OP came onto this message board with a genuine question about what her next move should be and all she gets is accusations of fraudulent conduct and gleeful pronouncements as to her sorry #### not being welcome in the US.

Yes, move onto the next case of people you can judge as being 'worthy' of your advice. Sheesh, VJ.


PeikkoMale02009-02-08 16:13:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresGot denied on my interview b'coz of not having my decision yet at the court from my previous marriage
QUOTE (pushbrk @ Feb 8 2009, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (GloriaLuvsMoto2 @ Feb 8 2009, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (pushbrk @ Feb 9 2009, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (uscandual @ Feb 8 2009, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (pushbrk @ Feb 9 2009, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think it takes much examination to see that most of the last 12 pages consist of bickering over whether we know what we know and/or whether and how we should communicate what we know or think we know. When we use our understanding of the forms and process, we need not be a fly on the wall to know false information was intentionally and knowingly given to USCIS or the petition would never have been approved and we know that more false information was contained in the visa applications delivered to the Consulate in furtherance of false pictures painted by the petition. We can read the affirmations above signatures on forms and know the potential consequences of these actions preclude remedies like simply filing again. We cannot help this couple obtain a visa fraudulently and we cannot help them avoid the penalties for the offences they've already been caught committing.

What we can do is help them face the realities of what they've done so they can, between them resolve what they will do going forward without wasting time on futile efforts.


Oh no, here we go again. Look, overall I agree with what you're saying, that we should certainly not be abetting fraud or duplicity, and that we cannot undo past actions that are already done, and that we cannot impose our will and judgment for that of USCIS and other bodies (e.g. Manila embassy).

BUT. BUT. This statement drives me a bit nuts:

intentionally and knowingly
You don't know that. I don't know that. You can suspect that, so may I. But nothing you can say, nothing anyone says here other than perhaps the OP, can confirm or deny whether it was "intentionally and knowingly". We've already had a poster recount their own experience in which they NEARLY fell into such a trap, completing the forms believing that because an ex-spouse had served papers that in fact the divorce was finalized, when it was not. How can you POSSIBLY know that something similar did not happen here, to this OP? You DON'T KNOW. I wish people would stop stating as facts things that are conjectures.


Proving my point. Most of the last now 13 of 16 pages have been about bickering about what is and isn't known. All forms ask about previous marriages. The foreign fiancee's English seems sufficient and she mentions "my previous marriage" in the title of the thread, indicating information about a previous marriage was knowingly and intentionally misrepresented. If there was any misunderstanding or confusion involved it relates the consequences, not the actions themselves. Ignorance of consequences may mitigate some of the penalties but not erase the responsibility for the offense.

That said, you long ago post was sound advice but their chances of success with a second I-129F are none and no way, IMO.



Push... this have been a very interesting topic for me... and im just wondering.. what exactly could happen to their petition perce if..

1. If she have mentioned her former marriage to G325 when they filled it before.. and just failed to submit the annulment decree.. Will they be allowed to make appeal? or will it be ok for them to re file a petition?

2. if they failed to declare it either intentional or not. Would this realy mean an automatic ban for her?

What do u think is the best option for them now?

im concerned that why iam asking...thank you


If they got a petition approved, they did so by omitting mention of a previous marriage because if there had been one mentioned, no petition would have been approved without evidence the marriage was terminated by death, divorce or annullment. Whether by ommission or false declaration, this constitutes misrepresentation of a material fact. As already stated, the penalty is a ban on visa approval and entry to the USA. The only ban mentioned for misrepresentation is a permanent one but I'm not a judge, so I allow it's possible for some penalty short of a lifetime ban.

I think their best option is to abandon any attempt to obtain a visa to the USA for the beneficiary and get on with their lives the best they can. I have no idea what that means to the couple, because I don't know enough to know whether building a life together outside the USA is a viable option for them.

You don't simply fail to mention a previous marriage. You fail to answer a question truthfully, meaning your answer is a lie, not a mistake.


QUOTE (Madame Cleo @ Feb 8 2009, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's your OPINION and not a fact as you don't actually work for USICS now do you? My message to the OP, (if the OP ever returns which I would somewhat doubt), get your annulment and re file. Let USICS judge what penalties to impose, not the members of VJ who are normally very well intentioned but sometimes get carried away on technicalities.

Good luck OP.


If working for the USCIS is the standard for knowing anything about the visa process, then VJ might as well be shut down immediately.

The OP has returned to the thread without posting. Um, yes, I know that.



Can you get any more silly? It's not a question of what you know about the visa process it's a question of you, and others rendering a judgment based on knowledge you don't posses. It's perfectly ok to speculate on the various proceedures and to give an opinion as to what might happen given X, Y and Z criteria but quite another to tell the OP or anyone else who comes here for genuine advice in no uncertain terms that they are fraudulant liars and stand no chance of ever having any petition approved.

I am quite sure you could see the difference if you would just take the log out of your eye.
PeikkoMale02009-02-08 13:41:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresGot denied on my interview b'coz of not having my decision yet at the court from my previous marriage
QUOTE (pushbrk @ Feb 8 2009, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (uscandual @ Feb 8 2009, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (pushbrk @ Feb 9 2009, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think it takes much examination to see that most of the last 12 pages consist of bickering over whether we know what we know and/or whether and how we should communicate what we know or think we know. When we use our understanding of the forms and process, we need not be a fly on the wall to know false information was intentionally and knowingly given to USCIS or the petition would never have been approved and we know that more false information was contained in the visa applications delivered to the Consulate in furtherance of false pictures painted by the petition. We can read the affirmations above signatures on forms and know the potential consequences of these actions preclude remedies like simply filing again. We cannot help this couple obtain a visa fraudulently and we cannot help them avoid the penalties for the offences they've already been caught committing.

What we can do is help them face the realities of what they've done so they can, between them resolve what they will do going forward without wasting time on futile efforts.


Oh no, here we go again. Look, overall I agree with what you're saying, that we should certainly not be abetting fraud or duplicity, and that we cannot undo past actions that are already done, and that we cannot impose our will and judgment for that of USCIS and other bodies (e.g. Manila embassy).

BUT. BUT. This statement drives me a bit nuts:

intentionally and knowingly
You don't know that. I don't know that. You can suspect that, so may I. But nothing you can say, nothing anyone says here other than perhaps the OP, can confirm or deny whether it was "intentionally and knowingly". We've already had a poster recount their own experience in which they NEARLY fell into such a trap, completing the forms believing that because an ex-spouse had served papers that in fact the divorce was finalized, when it was not. How can you POSSIBLY know that something similar did not happen here, to this OP? You DON'T KNOW. I wish people would stop stating as facts things that are conjectures.


Proving my point. Most of the last now 13 of 16 pages have been about bickering about what is and isn't known. All forms ask about previous marriages. The foreign fiancee's English seems sufficient and she mentions "my previous marriage" in the title of the thread, indicating information about a previous marriage was knowingly and intentionally misrepresented. If there was any misunderstanding or confusion involved it relates the consequences, not the actions themselves. Ignorance of consequences may mitigate some of the penalties but not erase the responsibility for the offense.

That said, you long ago post was sound advice but their chances of success with a second I-129F are none and no way, IMO.


That's your OPINION and not a fact as you don't actually work for USICS now do you? My message to the OP, (if the OP ever returns which I would somewhat doubt), get your annulment and re file. Let USICS judge what penalties to impose, not the members of VJ who are normally very well intentioned but sometimes get carried away on technicalities.

Good luck OP.
PeikkoMale02009-02-08 12:48:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & ProceduresGot denied on my interview b'coz of not having my decision yet at the court from my previous marriage
What I want to know is, why do so many posters in this thread care so passionately about the intentof the OP? Some here seem to be absolutely delighted that they have 'discovered' this lie, as if somehow it's going to positively affect their lives. It's not. I am quite sure the person at the embassy who denied this petition didn't do so with this sense of glee, I am sure they denied the petition with compassion. There are genuine feelings involved, real people.

I agree that it is right and proper to advise that what this couple did was wrong and 'could' result in a life time ban - as a warning to other people and as an advisory for the OP BUT personally I feel sorry for this couple and I hope they do try again. If I were them I would let USICS decide if what happened deserves a life time ban, not the members of VJ.
PeikkoMale02009-02-07 10:43:00