ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussiondid you guys put alien number on each page?
I wrote my A number name and the type of application on the upper right hand corner of every page. If it concerns you about writing on original documents, then use a pencil there - it can be erased. I too figured that if they misplaced - or dropped - parts of the file it would be easier to re-unite it with the rest of the file if every page was identified.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-10-10 22:39:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionI-751 and the formidable interview
Very few I-751 applicants get interviews. If there are red flags in your application, or if you do something silly like forget to sign the application, you may end up getting called in for an interview. If your application is perfectly fine, you may end up getting called in for a very perfunctory interview due to 'statistical' requirements - that means they need to interview a certain percentage of applicants and some are just randomly selected. All of the interviews I have read of here for happily married couples have been of the 'random sampling' type - and the interview is little more than showing up in person, saying hi and getting approved. I wouldn't lose any sleep over whether or not you will get an interview, nor if you do - unless there is something in your application that leaves your relationship open to speculation.

Edited by Kathryn41, 12 October 2009 - 08:10 PM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-10-12 20:09:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussiondid you guys use highlighter?
I yellow or pale green highlighted names, dates,address, account numbers, special lines in accounts (ie paying the mortgage from joint account), etc. for all the attachments but not on the actual immigration forms themselves. I did it for the K-1, for the AOS, for the ROC and for the Citizenship applications. It was never an issue and there was never an RFE or comment.

Edited by Kathryn41, 19 October 2009 - 07:13 PM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-10-19 19:12:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussiontemporary green card due to expire can i apply for citizenship
Since you are married less than 2 years when you received your green card, you have a 2 year conditional green card. You ABSOLUTELY have to apply to remove the conditions on your green card before you can do anything else. You need to submit a form I-751 along with the requested attachments (evidence that you married in good faith and not to obtain an immigration benefit) and wait for that to be approved. When it is approved, you will receive a 10 year green card. You cannot apply for citizenship unless you have applied to remove conditions. If you are still waiting for your 10 year card to be approved by the third anniversary of your green card you are allowed to apply for citizenship, but the I-751 will have to be decided first.

You need to submit the I-751 during the 90 day window of time that starts 90 days before your 2 year green card expires in May 2008. You cannot apply late. If you fail to apply once your green card expires you are out of status and can be deported from the US. If you apply early, your application will be returned to you unprocessed.

You are allowed to apply for US citizenship based upon marriage to a US citizen after 3 years as a permanent resident - not after 3 years of marriage, You need to still be married to the same US citizen and have to be married for at least 3 years but you are not eligible to be a citizen until you have had a green card for 3 years. The earliest you are allowed to apply for citizenship - assuming you have filed to remove conditions - is 90 days before the 3rd anniversary of your green card.

You will want to read over the Guides at the top of the Removal of Conditions forum to see what you need to do next.

I am moving your post from the General Immigration forum to the Removal of Conditions forum as well as that is your next step.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-10-20 18:16:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionHow much is good enough?
I would add some photos and the additional travel information but not another affidavit since you have them available. While you don't want to add too much you also don't want to receive an RFE for more information so err on the side of 'generosity' here smile.gif . Be sure that you include financial information that covers the whole time of your marriage since the AOS, so don't just send bank statements from the last few months - send statements that cover the beginning, middle and most recent months of your marriage - they want to see the ongoing continuity as it is much more difficult to fake. Good luck.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-10-18 21:52:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC unbearably slow
I'm sorry that VSC still hasn't cleaned up its act. It is very frustrating that CSC is able to process their own applications and a sizeable portion of the backlog from VSC as well - all within 3 or 4 months. It was extremely frustrating when CSC was pumping them out at 3 months while I was waiting for approval at VSC as well - ours took 12 months to be approved and at that time the average wait was between 11 and 15 months. I still think there has to be some way to improve that big of a discrepancy - they supposedly eliminated the backlogs but are still much slower than CSC. Hang in there - I hope you hear something positive soon.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-10-19 20:58:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionI have a huge doubt!!!
You'll have a great time - your husband must be really good on the bagpipes to be competing at that level. Remind your husband and his family that the green card is only applicable for the US - it means that the US will allow you back in - but it has no value to other countries unless they specifically chose to recognize it (ie. Canada).
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-10-20 18:24:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussiondidn't notify change of address, didn't file i751 on time :(
That's great news. I'm glad everything is working out in your situation. Good luck.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-09-10 22:19:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionI-751 biometrics twice
The first biometrics would be for the security check. This sounds like for some reason they can't use the same biometrics data to print the fingerprint on your new green card. I expect that once you do the biometrics you would get your 'approval' and green card very soon.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-08-25 15:51:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionFiling close to GC expiration date.
Being 'properly accepted' means that the fee is paid, the application is filled out and signed and you have attached the requested documents all within the 90 day window before the green card expires. Your husband will receive an NOA (Notice of Action) receipt that will extend the validity of his green card for 1 year. His expired card and the letter work together to prove his legal status. They have not reviewed the file yet for completeness of evidence and they probably won't before his 2 year card expires. Not to worry - he will be in legal status until they reach a decision on the application. If there is evidence lacking or they have questions, they will send an RFE, but his status is still valid even if the 2 year green card is expired. If everything is fine, they will probably approve the ROC without an interview.

Edited by Kathryn41, 27 October 2009 - 06:52 PM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-10-27 18:50:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionRenewal of 2-yr green card
QUOTE (? Teena? Joe? @ Nov 2 2009, 07:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi everyone, I dont know where to post my topic but I just gave it a try in this forum. I just turned 1 yr here in US yesterday but in preparation for nxt yr renewal of GC I want to know how the process will go and how much money I need to prepare.

Also, can I apply for naturalization on that time too?

I will appreciate any answers for my topic. Thank you in advance and God bless us all...

Teena


Hi Teena,

Welcome to VJ. I am moving your post to the correct forum which is called "Removal of Conditions".

Basically, from 90 days before your two year green card expires to when it expires you need to file form I-751 with the proper USCIS office for your part of the country. You can't file earlier and you can't file after your green card expires so you need to file within that 90 day window.

You will see on the form that they request 'evidence' that shows you have a real marriage rather than one just for immigration benefits. You will need income tax returns or transcripts (available for free from the IRS) for the years of your marriage - or at least since you got the green card; copies of joint bank account statements, credit card statements, joint bills for household expenses like phone, heat, etc., joint loans together; joint ownership or lease of property; birth certificates of any children born to you and your husband, health cards listing both of you together, car registration listing both of your together, insurance listing both of you together, wills with each other as executor and/or beneficiary, things like that. You don't need to have everything but you do need to show documents proving you have co-mingled your assets and liabilities financially and share a life together personally. The documents also need to cover the whole time of your marriage, not just the last few months. What I found helpful was to set aside a box now and when you get something in the mail that fits the criteria you put it in the box (and you can go back over your last year's papers and find those ones now and put those in the box too). When it comes time to fill out the form you already have a lot of evidence that you can choose from and it makes things much easier.

You send the form, the copies of your evidence and the fee of $465 plus an $80 biometrics fee for a total of $545 to USCIS. They send back an NOA receipt notice. This receipt notice also contains a sentence stating that this document extends the validity of your green card for one more year. You need to carry a copy of your receipt notice with your expired green card and it proves you are still in legal status. You will next receive a biometrics appointment letter, go and get your fingerprints done and photo taken, and then wait. If your evidence is sufficient, you will probably receive your 10 year green card without an interview, although an interview is always possible.

You will find it useful to read over the topics 'pinned' at the very top of this forum as well as reading the information in the Guides for Removal of Conditions.

You cannot apply for Naturalization at the same time. You can apply for Naturalization starting 90 days before the 3rd anniversary of your green card as long as you are still married to the same US citizen who petitioned for you. You need to be both married for at least 3 years and a permanent resident for at least 3 years before you are elligible to become a US citizen through marriage to a US citizen.

Good luck. You will find lots of useful information here in the 'Removal of Conditions" forum.

Edited by Kathryn41, 02 November 2009 - 07:48 AM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-02 07:47:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionRejected I-751 Notice
Yes, resend the same package.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-01 16:57:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionROC - lack of evidence - could it be a problem?
Your evidence looks fine. Even if you didn't file taxes jointly you would have had to file them as 'married - filing separately'. Send in the transcripts that show you filed that way - it is evidence that you are listed as married with the IRS. You are not required to file jointly if it is not in your best tax interests to do so. You can certainly indicate in your cover letter that it made more financial sense for you to file as 'married - filing separately' and are including those documents. You could also include copies of household bills paid by you and household bills paid by your spouse. They don't need to be joint bills but that would show that you are sharing/splitting the expenses of the household as well in a way that works for you. I do think you have good evidence to submit as it is. You can beef it up a bit by providing evidence that both of you live in the same house (Driver's licenses, etc.) even if you don't have a lot of joint accounts.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-06 19:34:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionNot much evidence of 2 year marriage :(
I am not on the mortgage or the deed for the house, nor am I listed on any of the utility accounts. It was not a problem. We provided enough other evidence to show we have co-mingled financial assets and personal lives. On our joint bank account statements I did highlight the lines that showed our mortgage is paid from the joint account, as well as several other utility bills and insurance bills that came out of our joint account. We were never asked for more evidence and were approved without a problem. You have a nice selection of evidence showing you have co-mingled your financial and personal lives together. I think you'll be fine.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-06 19:39:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionGeneral Consensus - Interviews
I think I have seen only one interview that I can remember since I started to look at the ROC forum (which was about 2 years ago now). They are definitely the exception rather than the norm.

Edited by Kathryn41, 06 November 2009 - 04:34 PM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-06 16:34:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionFingerprint cards (FD-258)
If you are the US citizen and your husband is the immigrant and is overseas then he would have to submit the fingerprint cards. If you are the immigrant and he is the US citizen, then no he does not have to provide fingerprint cards because the US citizen does not get fingerprinted - only the immigrant. So, if you are the immigrant and here in the US, you do not need fingerprint cards. After you submit the application, you will receive a letter giving you an appointment date for you to go to the USCIS office or Application Support Center and get your fingerprints and photograph taken.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-08 20:17:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionI-751 Approved...Now what??
You don't get more responses in more threads - it just gets lost and people end up duplicating information or ignoring all of the threads because they won't take them seriously, and the moderators receive reports about unnecessary duplicated threads which we then have to go and close. So, if you wish for the most efficient method of getting the correct information, you post in the correct forum and and don't spread the same question over a number of places.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-07 20:18:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionI-751 Approved...Now what??
There is no need to post this question in more than one forum. I have removed the duplicate post.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-06 16:39:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionMy turn to freak out...
If you are sending in the tax transcripts you don't need the W2s.

I agree that organization helps a lot. You may have a lot of good material but if it is difficult to find or mixed all together it would be easy for the Immigration Officer to miss something. I organized my information into sections as well (like material with like material), and then included a list of contents for each section as well as a complete 'table of contents' at the beginning. A combination of 'good evidence' and 'good organization' is will make it much easier for the immigration officer to say 'yes, approved'.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-08 20:13:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionMy turn to freak out...
Rings, your list looks fine. If you wanted to, you could include tax transcripts of more years, envelopes addressed to the two of you at your home, etc. I sent in a lot of documentation as well - shortly before I filed there were a lot of people receiving requests for more evidence who had sent in rather minimal amounts. I figure I would rather them have too much than too little. Your evidence shows a nice range of integration of your lives together - financial, social and personal. I think you will be just fine!
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-06 16:33:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionI-751 - when do they start working on it?
They will work on it in stages. It is received and the cheque separated from the package, the package reviewed for completeness and if complete the cheque is cashed and the NOA is sent. It is then put into a queue for scheduling a biometrics appointment which will vary depending on the schedule of the local USCIS office or ASC. Once the biometrics are done, they are sent off for the security checks to take place. When the results of the security checks come back, they are matched up once again with the application. The application then goes back into a queue waiting examination by an adjudicator. If the adjudicator finds no problem with the application, it is approved. If the adjudicator finds something missing or has questions, he/she may issue an RFE or schedule the application for an interview. The interview is then scheduled based upon the schedule of the local office.

CSC is very quick at getting back to applications after receiving the security checks back. The checks can be done in a few days - or they can stretch out longer than that dependent on the names of the individuals and how many 'hits' the names get. The 'hits' have to be checked out to make sure they aren't the applicant.

Yes, VSC sucks. The application probably requires less than 20 minutes to review and adjudicate once the biometrics and security checks are complete. That means that the majority of the time we spend waiting for a decision the application is just sitting there in line until the adjudicator gets to it.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-12 16:50:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionWhat happens if I do not want to remove conditions?
Just Bob,

Please read the TOS for Visa Journey. It is a violation of the Terms of Service for VJ to:

Condone or instruct, either directly or indirectly, others on how to commit fraudulent or illegal immigration activities in any way, shape, manner or method.


IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT FRAUDULENT OR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ACTIVITIES

VisaJourney.com does not condone immigration fraud in any way, shape or manner. VisaJourney.com recommends that if any member or user knows directly of someone involved in fraudulent or illegal activity, that they report such activity directly to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. You can contact ICE via email at Immigration.Reply@dhs.gov or you can telephone ICE at 1-866-347-2423. All reported threads/posts containing reference to immigration fraud or illegal activities will be removed from this board.

For more information on immigration and how immigration fraud affects all members of the immigration community please see USCIS.GOV.

http://www.visajourn...h...&page=terms

While you may not think lying is a big deal, lying to Immigration Authorities - which is what you are encouraging the OP to do by suggesting he implies/tells/suggests that his wife married him for fraudulent purposes when there is no evidence presented to substantiate the position - is called misrepresentation and carries serious consequences.

To use VJ to encourage the OP to lie to immigration and to provide him with suggestions on how to do it is a violation of TOS - and it is the Terms of Service for this site that govern your participation here, not US law.

This matter is not open to 'discussion'. The Terms of Service are very clear and you agreed to abide by the Terms of Service when you became a member on Visa Journey.

Edited by Kathryn41, 14 November 2009 - 09:40 PM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-14 21:39:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionWhat happens if I do not want to remove conditions?
I will reiterate what other members have been saying - it is illegal to advocate any type of illegal activity - lying, misrepresentation, destroying evidence, mis-using immigration services - all of these are a violation of the Terms of Service for Visa Journey. Any further suggestions about how to misuse the current immigration system will be met with administrative action.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-13 18:59:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionRequest for more evidence
I also used our pets' microchip registration showing both our names - if you have pets that might be something; our HOA residency list showing both of us at the same address - will the landlord write a letter stating you both live at the same address even if he won't add him to the lease?; copies of our wills; copies of AAA cards (same account); copies of Costco cards (same account); Emergency Contact information from my husband's work listing me as spouse and first contact name (does his student registration or enrollment list you as spouse and contact name?); health cards (same account); car registration with both our names; car loan with both our names; on the joint bank account statements I highlighted where the mortgage was paid from the joint account since I am not on the title or mortgage (that might work for you - a joint account with rent and household bills highlighted on the account - and evidence that he also uses that account); travel documents together; family cell phone plan with both our names listed; photos showing us with each other's families at holidays (ie. Thanksgiving, Christmas), any sort of evidence of packages delivered in either both your names or in his name to your address; etc. Make sure your documents cover the whole time of your marriage so you may wish to include more bank account statements covering the whole time of your marriage.

Think creatively - good luck!

Edited by Kathryn41, 15 November 2009 - 12:28 AM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-15 00:26:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionRecommendation for attorney for I-751?
Even if you wanted to use a lawyer you would still be doing 90% of the work. You need to gather up all of the evidence from your records as the lawyer wouldn't have access to that. All the lawyer would really do is fill out the form and organize your evidence - something that you can probably do just as easily and a lot cheaper.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-11-20 19:55:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC I-1751 Status List
Congratulations, golferadam:-)!
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-27 15:04:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC I-1751 Status List
Congratulation on the recent approvals! I still want to see those outstanding December '07, January and February 08 applications approved too!
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-17 19:02:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC I-1751 Status List
QUOTE (Shari @ Mar 4 2009, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
goofy.gif So Keith got his approval letter in the mail last Friday (2/27/09) dated the previous Monday (2/23/09) stating he had been approved, but today I got an email stating that his card had been ordered just yesterday, March 3rd (a whole week after his approval). I thought the card would have been ordered back on 02/23/09 when he was approved - is that right? goofy.gif


Shari,

The same thing happened with my card - it was ordered about a week after the file was approved and it took nearly 3 weeks after my approval for it to arrive in the mail. It did come though- even though the mailman put it in my neighbour's mailbox!!!! My neighbour fortunately delivered it to the house.

Edited by Kathryn41, 04 March 2009 - 06:51 PM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-04 18:50:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC I-1751 Status List
QUOTE (Antuanetta1704 @ Mar 4 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hm.........
had no touches on the case.... no emails from CRIS......nothing in my mail yet......but Have received an email from my lawyer, saying she received an approval letter for my perm green card... and that I'll get it within two weeks ..................
I guess I'm Happy .............=))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
strange, though......=) good.gif
will be waiting, and will get back here with the update.
good luck everyone=)))!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Congratulations on your approval! yes, it seems to be running half and half - half of the people are notified by email and the other half know nothing until they receive the actual approval letter or green card in the mail. Weird system. At least yours is on its way.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-04 11:00:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC I-1751 Status List
Congratulations Anya - yes, you should receive your greencard within about 2 weeks or less, actually, according to common experience recently.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-02-24 15:28:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC I-1751 Status List
I hope all these touches mean approval notices very soon for everyone. Good luck, all!
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-02-23 15:58:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC I-1751 Status List
Congratulations! It's about time!

Apparently, my new green card arrived in the mail yesterday - and the postman delivered it to the WRONG HOUSE!! I thought it was peculiar that we only got magazines delivered yesterday. Well, today my neighbour brings over 3 letters as well - including my green card - that were put into their mailbox instead. Thank heavens we have good neighbours! Phew!

My card is correct - and they even sent a little tyvek envelope for it. Cool.

Edited by Kathryn41, 19 February 2009 - 11:13 AM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-02-19 11:12:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC I-1751 Status List
Congratulations Romabel and kleobq - good to have the time frame for getting the green card. Looks like I should receive mine any day now.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-02-18 14:36:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionVSC I-1751 Status List
And I received today another email from CRIS dated February 13 stating they had mailed my approval letter on February 13 - the approval letter that I had already received several days before the 13th. Left right - right hand, yeah, you know! Still waiting for my card though.

Edited by Kathryn41, 17 February 2009 - 01:57 PM.

Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-02-17 13:56:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionI-751 Do we send fingerprints w/ application or not?
QUOTE (girlafraid7 @ Mar 17 2009, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've read the guides and instructions, but I'm getting conflicting information for filing the I-751. We have not had fingerprints taken thus far in this process. Do we need to make an appointment for fingerprints to send in with our application (per the application instruction)? I also read something on the USCIS as of 2/27/07 that says an update to the process says that you will be sent a notice AFTER the I-751 is filed to appear at a USCIS office to have your biometrics captured. WHICH IS IT?
anyone know?


If you are currently living outside of the US (ie military base, etc.) then you include fingerprints with the I-751. If you are in the US, then you don't. After you submit your application, you will receive an ASC Biometrics appointment letter. This isusually comes about a month after the NOA receipt for your petition. It will have a date, time and place where you will go to have both your fingerprints taken digitally (pun intented) as well as a photograph.

How is it that you did not have to do biometrics for your AOS to get your conditional green card? Or did you mean you didn't have to submit fingerprints with your application but did the biometrics appointment?
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-18 11:15:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionWhich date is the right one?
Just to reassure you NO ONE can access their status using the NOA number. Only the biometric number works - the NOA number is an internal use number only, so don't let that worry you.

There are applicants who filed in December 2007, plus applicants who filed in January and February 2008 who still have not received their approval notices or anything else. They are working on files that include April but are not working only on April files nor have finished up the files preceding April. You are still right within the time zone for VSC approval - 12 to 14 months. If your Green Card extension expiry date comes close and you still haven't heard anything, make an INFOPASS appointment with your local office and get the I-551 stamp placed in your passport. It will be valid to renew your Driver's License as well. Plan on making that appointment around the end of April if you haven't heard by then.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-18 20:44:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionWaiver
You need to be divorced to file the waiver and have to include a copy of the divorce decree with the application.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-16 19:02:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionJust got the email; card production ordered
Congratulations.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-18 20:23:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionIs Deed enough, or mortgage too?
We didn't have either but we had lots of other evidence of our co-mingled financial assets and personal lives. Don't re-mortgage if you have a good rate and term right now just to get another name on the mortgage. The deed should be fine, and even then, isn't always necessary.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-19 16:12:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General DiscussionInfopass experience and questions
Go ahead with your N-400. If your marriage is valid and you have no concerns about it (and a 5th anniversary shows it seems on pretty solid ground), then they will have to adjudicate the I-751 in order to process the N-400. VSC seems really screwed up. They are processing cases with a good 6 month spread between them at the same time while there are applications still outstanding from 2007 and early 2008. I highly doubt your case will be 'denied' due to the length of time it is taking. I would put that down to VSC incompetence and you might as well get on with your life instead of waiting for them to get their act together. I think it is also a good idea for you to contact your Senator's office and ask them to investigate this delay. Good luck to you.
Kathryn41FemaleCanada2009-03-19 21:44:00