ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
Middle East and North AfricaCurrency Exchnage in Morocco

Hi All,
I am going to Casablanca this week. We are planning to get married as a first step for K3 process. My question is:
How do i exchnage US $ to Moroccan Dirhams? I am staying in an Apartment callled 'Casa Sweet Homes' and they don't have Currency Exchnage counters as all big hotels do. What is advisable way?

1. Take US $ with me and exchange over there?

2. Take Moroccan DH from US? Is there any limit Morocco has? I am planning equivalent to $5,000 to take with me to pay where credit cards don't work.

3. Take Traveller Checks and get them cashed over there?


How could i get better exchange rate? I called one of the hotels and almost fainted when the guy told me 1 US $ = 6 MAD.... where the regular rate is 1 US = 8.64 MAD.


Any one has experience with Car rental there? Is it better to get Car with driver as most of them locally do?


Thanks.

Regards,
Talat


DON'T TAKE TRAVELERS CHECKS! That is just waaaaay too much of a pain -- some banks with charge a fee, you cannot actually spend them anywhere and some banks will refuse them outright without believing that they are legitimate. Save yourself the trouble. Bring some cash and exchange it at a Bank Populaire or BMCE or another big bank. The exchange rate is ok. Just don't do any non-bank exhanges.

Use your ATM card for more cash. Check with your bank to see how much thye are going to charge you for each withdrawal. It may not be worth it to withdrawal very much, or very often. Also, keep in mind that the ATMs will put a cap on how much you can take out per week (often 2,000 dirhams). And as was mentioned before, if the ATM hasn't been serviced or is just acting strangely it might take your card and rip it up.

Bottom line -- if you are just going to be in the country for a few months -- bring some cash and exchange it all.
Morocco is cheap anyway. :)

Good luck! (and mar7aba f lmghrib!!)

Amanda
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-05 16:34:00
Middle East and North AfricaCasa interview Q and A


I totally agree with Sarah...Jamal had the same CO he was drilled about me and my family...so make sure that you got that covered...ther than that just tell him to relax and be truthful...I feel that these are the most important aspects to look for...Good luck...he will do good... :dance: :dance: we all will send out some major MOJO to Casa.... :dance: :dance:
Dorothy


Can you please give some insight into those drilling questions? Thanks for your help.


My husband sat in the waiting room (in late July) all day and listened to several interviews - it was very entertaining for him. He told me that a few of the guys were applying for fiance visas and were being asked things about their fiancee's families -- especially name and ages of the woman's children, her mother's name, her age and current occupation, where she went to university, etc. He said he found the big mistake the guys were making was being overeager to answer the right way instead of just being honest (he watched one guy repeatedly say "I love America!" after every time he missed an answer). He said the interviewers were speaking a mix of Darija and French depending on what was needed.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-08 13:46:00
Middle East and North Africaspun and dun

Well, some things are easy and formulaic, like headcovering and name changing. These give you a feeling of "insta-identity" and belonging, which is important, but not meant to be superficial. Then, you learn a few quotes and ayat that put in you in the game regarding discussing the faith, and a few cute ways to wear hijab. Bingo, you have used up all the magic in the the Insta-Muslim convert kit.

However, this can lull you into feeling comfortable and relaxed because, sadly, other than this, and a few housewifey and motherly obligations that women are expected to fulfill, there is little of substance that is required of women converts in most communities. And, unfortunately, too many women are happy to accept this as their lot. I think we should offer a lot more, for most women are capable of wonderful contributions and great knowledge.


Wow, thank god for you. I wish I could meet more Muslim women like you - this has been my problem from the get-go - seeing converts buy into a strange identity replacement including name change, headscarving and submissive behavior.

While I was in Morocco I met a scholar from Atlanta -- a convert, a thinker and a feminist - also a very happy single Mom. She said exactly the same things you are saying -- she concetrates on improving the academic knowledge of Islam by teaching it at university level. She was also surprised to see women (from Christian backgrounds) become so submissive and anti-Christian after conversion (usually from husband-pressure). When I read stuff like this it actually affrims the beauty and potential *I* see in Islam, both for myself and for the world.

And to Amal (this was my "Moroccan" name in the bled) - mabrouk 3lik bizef. :) I think you came into it in the best way - and it is good to see that you are still open to your experience and that you still express doubts.

Amanda
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-08 13:34:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO
[quote name='charlesandnessa' post='442817' date='Sep 13 2006, 09:22 AM'][quote name='jenn3539' post='442815' date='Sep 13 2006, 09:21 AM']
[quote name='charlesandnessa' post='442784' date='Sep 13 2006, 10:15 AM']
[quote name='jenn3539' post='442775' date='Sep 13 2006, 09:12 AM']
Is it really you? Have we been blessed with a glimpse?!?!?!?[/quote]
yup
[/quote]

It says "figa" right next to your head, which in Italian is the "C word". :P
[/quote]
ah cool. whatever it is, it's portuguese.
[/quote]

"figa" is the name of the good luck charm in Brazil (the thumb inside the fingers).

[quote name='sarah and hicham' post='441945' date='Sep 12 2006, 07:57 PM'][quote name='deeshla' post='441939' date='Sep 12 2006, 05:55 PM']
[quote name='sarah and hicham' post='441935' date='Sep 12 2006, 07:53 PM']
Thanks for explaining that to me and it makes sense that you say it is shared in Moroco. That is a good point. Congrats on your husband coming! Take care,
Sarah[/quote]

Congrats on your husband coming too! Two Hichams are better than one! :) (Now if I can get my family to pronounce his name correctly. Do you ever just spell it Hisham so people will get it?)
[/quote]


haha my mom feels so bad cause she is completely incapable of pronouncing that is "foreign". I haven't thought to spell it like that but it's a good idea. He gave his name at a restaurant and when they called his named they called "Justin! Justin!" It was so funny.

What did you do in Morocco for that long?
[/quote]

I was in Peace Corps (before and after war), then I worked as an English teacher.

My Dad calls him "Hiccup" :)



[quote name='jenn3539' post='441932' date='Sep 12 2006, 07:52 PM'][quote name='deeshla' post='441929' date='Sep 12 2006, 08:50 PM']
In Morocco it is literally against the law to break the fast before sundown and people are prosecuted if caught.[/quote]

Wow, I didn't know this. Do you know what sort of punishments are given?
[/quote]

Good question. I never heard of anyone breaking it but I know it is against the law (for Moroccans). I know eating in public in, say, a small village would probably get a sort of "down home" justice whereas Rabat might be different (possibly not enforced?) When I was in a smaller town most (non-Ramadan realted) infractions were dealt with by extremely brutal beatings by the local police / gendarmes.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-13 11:14:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO

Thanks for explaining that to me and it makes sense that you say it is shared in Moroco. That is a good point. Congrats on your husband coming! Take care,
Sarah


Congrats on your husband coming too! Two Hichams are better than one! :) (Now if I can get my family to pronounce his name correctly. Do you ever just spell it Hisham so people will get it?)
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-12 19:55:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO

Gotcha.

So why do you think it is easier to observe Ramadan in Morocco than in other countries? Just curious!

Sarah



Because it is shared. Like everyone is saying here -- we still have to work (in the US) - usually pretty early. In Morocco it is literally against the law to break the fast before sundown and people are prosecuted if caught. Here, everything goes. I think it will take more self-control. Anyway, I have never done Ramadan here (and husband is coming right in the middle of it) -- so we will see! Maybe it will be better than I think.

Sorry to generalize but it really is true that people get lazy during Ramadan. People still work, but you should see quality. More bus accidents happen at this time. I avoid public transportation during Ramadan. Anyway, I am rambling off-point... I think in the US we are focused on high-standard work-ethics and are very result-oriented. Over there I think it is more about the quality of the experience so it is no big deal to basically shut down the country for a month and relax. My husband still has to run his business and wake up at 6:00 and not drink water all day (difficult) but all the men that work on his projects come in late, sleep as much as possible and go home early. It is expected.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-12 19:50:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO

It seems like you are really generalizing the entire Moroccan population with what you said.


Oh well. I lived in the following places: Beni Mellal, Azilal, Er-Rachidia province, and Rabat. I spent my first Ramadan in Fes and Azilal and in a mountain village. The 2nd one in Beni Mellal and a tiny little village in Er-Rachidia province. The 3rd Ramadan was Rabati (wow, what a difference!). I'm just calling it like I see it. I figure variation within the population would be assumed.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-12 19:40:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO

I don't really understand what you're saying. Do you think people are supposed to be sad during Ramadan? Morocco is one of the less strict Muslim countries as you know I'm sure... but still people do observe Ramadan and are happy to do so.


No, I agree! I like Ramadan in Morocco -- I am just saying that as it is observed in Morocco it is not very difficult as a "fast" -- I reallze that poorer people in the country do not eat very lavishly. Even so, I lived for 2 years in a village and we ate very very well :) I am not saying anything major at all -- just that Ramadan probably differs from place to place. Life really does shut down in Morocco - people have different working hours, businesses close, and there are literally hordes of sleeping men on the side of the road! I am talking about "real" Morocco, not Rabat or Casablanca -- I mean the "bled."

People are very festive and happy in Ramadan - it really is a fun time. We always settled in around the TV (anybody see "Lalla Fatima" while they were in Morocco?) and slurped our harira. When the call to prayer started I would start to drool. The shared "suffering" is what it is all about. But, as I said before, what really surprised me was that it wasn't very difficult to do Ramadan as Moroccan. It is more joyful and well.... full of calories!
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-12 19:37:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO





I guess it would be different if we could put our lives on hold for a month and not work so we could sleep till noon or so but that's not possible. I have to get up at 6:30am every day with my son and send him off to school so its gonna be really hard for me. (especially since I'm used to eating around 10:30am and drinking from the get-go)



I thought that if you sleep all day during Ramadan that is almost like cheating... since it is not very trying?



It is cheating. The Prophet (saws) strongly spoke against stuffing yourself at night and sleeping during the day. *shrugs*


That is why I never thought of Ramadan (as practiced in Morocco) as much of fast!


I'm sure not ALL Moroccans practice like the one's you saw. All of the ones I know do not sleep during the day and they fast just like everyone else. There's always some who don't do it "right" but not everyone is like that!


Um, live in Morocco for a while then we will talk. Anyway, I am not judging, it is still an effort and people do still owrk. But there is more of a party feeling and eating (and gaining weight) definitely an issue.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-12 17:14:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO



I guess it would be different if we could put our lives on hold for a month and not work so we could sleep till noon or so but that's not possible. I have to get up at 6:30am every day with my son and send him off to school so its gonna be really hard for me. (especially since I'm used to eating around 10:30am and drinking from the get-go)



I thought that if you sleep all day during Ramadan that is almost like cheating... since it is not very trying?



It is cheating. The Prophet (saws) strongly spoke against stuffing yourself at night and sleeping during the day. *shrugs*


That is why I never thought of Ramadan (as practiced in Morocco) as much of fast!
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-12 11:30:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO


I guess it would be different if we could put our lives on hold for a month and not work so we could sleep till noon or so but that's not possible. I have to get up at 6:30am every day with my son and send him off to school so its gonna be really hard for me. (especially since I'm used to eating around 10:30am and drinking from the get-go)



I thought that if you sleep all day during Ramadan that is almost like cheating... since it is not very trying?


Exactly! :) Tell that to Moroccans! Businesses close, people wake up late and you see men sleeping on the side of the road all day. (Meanwhile women are starting up the harira at 2 p.m. or so) Ramadan is like a big party in Morocco. It will be a distinct challenge to fulfill it here in the U.S. -- it will be interesting to find out.

I am not a Muslim so Ramadan has more or a social quality to me -- in the same way Christmas does -- I feel that it is about family and togetherness and shared experience. I also sometimes wonder if there isn't a bit of a carb-loading purpose (for the specific area where I lived in the Sahara people mostly ate carbs at Fitur) for a people who have high energy needs as farmers.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-11 23:57:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO
You know after reading these responses I have to say something -- I really never found fasting for Ramadan very difficult or trying. In fact, it is not a true fast. In Morocco, once the sun went down it was gorge-fest! I ate soup and milkshakes and doughnuts and pomegranates and "fat bread" (don't ask!) and fresh juices and cassseroles and crepes soaked in butter and honey and Shebekia and dates and siloo (a sort of peanuty-ground up delicious mound that you eat with a spoon) and eggs and tajines and salads and and.... I was stuffed from the call to prayer until I got into bed. I had to fight off people from shoving food down my throat at s7or in the middle of the night. I had to pretend illness in order not to throw up 9this was the way it was at Eid too). I generally gained about 5-10 pounds. No one worked during the day, sleeping until noon was encouraged.

Not drinking water was a pain, but hey! at least it was some sacrifice -- all of the gorging was starting to make me feel guilty!

:)
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-11 22:40:00
Middle East and North AfricaNon-Muslim SO's Practice Ramadan with their Muslim SO

Last year when I flew to Morocco to meet my love for the first time, it was Ramadan. I practiced it during my stay. No food, water, kissing, ect. ect. ect. The reason is simply because I love him and want to feel partnered in everything that we do. Ramadan is something he respects and loves to do, so I partnered him in this time.
If my darling husband is to arrive this year, during the time of Ramadan, it would be my pleasure to observe this again with him. And we've already discussed and agreed that Ramadan would be something we would do together every year for the rest of our lives.
I know that the time of Ramadan is a special time of year set aside for God. It's time to read God's word, do good works, to sacrafice and fast for HIM the most high. I can honestly say last year and this year I'm 80 percent doing Ramadan for my love. But I feel this idea of sacraficing for God is honorable, important, and expected by God, and with time I'm very sure my priorities will change.

I know we have quiet a few NON muslim SO's married to Muslim SO's and I was wondering if you do this as well?



I do exactly the same thing. Even before I was with Hicham romantically, that is when I was simply living with other Moroccans, I observed the fast out of solidarity and to share an experience with them. It was wonderful to partake in the break-fast food preparation, to feel he excitement of sundown and to of course eat the amazing foods. (It wasn't however, nice to gain weight, eat at 3:00 in the morning --which I still refuse to do, too unhealthy-- and see the hypocrites in the street who used to harrass me now treat me with respect --AHEM! But that is another story!)

My husband is coming during Ramadan (to the States) and even though I am pregnant I will experience the Fitur with him as best I can. I respect the religious reasons even if I have a more anthropological interpretation of it. ;)

Amanda
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-11 12:44:00
Middle East and North Africawhat did your family say?

The first time you flew to the middle east to see your so, what did your family say?


I was already in Morocco when I met my husband (then boyfriend). When my family found out about him, they were overjoyed. When they all flew out to Morocco for the first time (all 5 of them together!) they were even happier! It was an instant fit. My brother married an Indian woman, so they are interested which nationality will be next (one brother left). I am blessed with a very open-minded, free-thinking family that values genetic diversity. ;)
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-08 13:39:00
Middle East and North Africamonday thread

Ok question:

Let's say one gets pregnant during Ramadan and doesn't find out until close to the end of Ramadan, could fasting possibly hurt the baby?



Potentially. Those first 8 weeks are really important for development. At the very least make sure you are getting the proper nutrients and taking extra folic acid (if you are pregnant or think you might BE pregnant, or WANT to get pregnant).

In general - if you are pregnant -- DON'T FAST. It is not even expected in the religion and it is certainly dangerous. Pregnant women shouldn't go 4 hours or more without eating at least a little something.

And for those of you that are sick -- DON'T FAST. For goodness sakes, get well and then fast. It is better to be healthy and fasting.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-25 21:01:00
Middle East and North AfricaThe Notion is back...

Hi ladies. So Youssef has been slipping further and further into depression here, with no word on his green card or AP. As he left this afternoon he said, "The day I open the mailbox and there's something in there for me will make me so happy" and a tear rolled down his face. I couldn't even give him a hug (his strict Ramadan restrictions :(). Needless to say I'm really bummed out by the cruddy job market I've been experiencing here as well. I'm a university graduate who can't get a full time job *sigh*. So I have a job secured at the American Language Center in Marrakech whenever I want to take it, and Youssef's brother in law works for the Moumia hotel in Marrakech and can almost guarantee him getting a job there (especially with his English skills now). I started looking for apartments in Marrakech today and I'm really seriously considering going back. I am however worried about jeopardizing his returning to the US. Obviously it would be much easier if he had his citizenship here but I don't know how 3 more years will last. It would be incredibly nice to have the help of his sisters there with the kids and I really want to learn Arabic and possibly get my Masters from Al Akhwan in Ifrane. I guess I'm really scared to make the step - esp. immigration wise. What would our recourse be if my husband wanted to return to the US with me? Would it be filing DCF there or would they see that we abandoned the petition and deny us?

Amera -- the ALC is a lovely place and Marrakech is full of great schools for multi-lingual kids!

I want you to know that getting DCF in Morocco is incredibly easy and fast -- it took us 1 month from me filing a petition to my husband picking up to visa. It will cost about 4000 dirhams total and the fact that you will have a babe-in-arms and will (presumably) have your carte de sejour as a teacher will mean no hassle for you. In other words, they will not doubt one iota of your relationship and the visa issuance will be smooth. And of course wilt DCF you get the instant green card. There are some provisions for keeping this up. The American/Moroccan couples I know there have little travel scenarios to keep him in his green card up-to-date so they can return when they want to (i.e. they travel to the states at least once a year).

You can live fairly comfortably on the ALC salary. I say go for it! We can talk more via PM if you want - I know lots of couples in Marrakech currently (with kids) who can clue you into schools, socializing, etc.

Good luck on your decision!

Amanda
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-29 19:20:00
Middle East and North AfricaWeight

My SILs are all heavy except one. She's not heavy but not really thin either..she's about my size. When I won't eat much in Egypt they all get on me to eat, eat. They ask if I'm watching my weight and when I say yes they said, why? you're not fat. Maybe not to them but to myself I am. My MIL will get on my sisters about their weight. Once I bought a box of Cadbury chocolates for everyone and when my one sister went to take one my mom said...do you really need that? I felt bad for her :(


Interesting side note:

In Morocco, the Berber verb for "to lose weight" roughly translates to "to get weak."

The verb for "to gain weight" translates to "to get healthy."

Explains a lot! :)
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-02 12:20:00
Middle East and North AfricaCasa



All I can do is say my prayers that Casa will not be bad for my husband. So far, my prayers have been answered in other things. I have read the embassy reviews for Casa and I don't know why some of the co's there have to be so difficult.
Lavon



Lavon, yes it is scary but the least you can do is be very well prepared. Good luck,
Sarah


When you say well prepared, what exactly do you mean?

If you mean prepared with evidence, this is what I sent Hamid (well, I tried to send it via us mail, but they told me there was a hold on a mail going to morocco. and actually something i sent at the beginning of august got returned yesterday, so I scanned everything and emailed it to him): emails from 2004 - present (about 40 pages total, in 10 pt font), a few chats (not much because we use the cam and mic), phone card orders, photocopied journal entries from 2003-2004, plane ticket stub, passport page photocopy, flight itenerary, documents from the Peace Corps and Moroccan government that confirm the dates I lived in Morocco and what it was I did while there, he has a letter too from the Moroccan government that states that I lived with his family, tons of pictures, the ring receipt. I also sent him every financial form imaginable, including the i-485 (or whatever the number is), my tax transcripts from the last three years, bank statements from the last 12 months, letters from employers, documents proving my assests and life insurance. Is there anything else I'm forgetting about?

If you mean prepared to answer questions about our relationship, what kinds of questions should he be prepared to answer? i mean, should he know my sister's date of birth? should he know where I worked 2 years ago and how much I got paid? will it go that in depth? or will they ask simple stuff like "what's her father's name and what does he do for a living?" should he be prepared to tell them about my birthmarks? I have no idea what they would ask him, if it will be personal/private things or general things.

is there anything else I should be prepared for? Thanks!



Liz, generally speaking if you have to "drill" or practice questions with him then there is a problem. If he knows you and your family, he will know how to answer the questions. If he doesn't know you, he won't. Truth is, a few missed questions (i.e. he may not remember your mother's maiden name or somesuch) will not reflect badly if it is obvious that he knows you from a natural connection (i.e. you guys met at your homestay in Morocco) and that the relationship is real, and can answer the other questions. When Casa encounters a robot, answering questions from rote memory, they notice. I say this from lots of experience being in the Consulate and hearing very nervous K-1 applicants try to answer questions.

I say, be natural. Let him depend on his natural knowledge of you and your life.

By the way, I was in PC too. That connection will help you immensely. :)
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-03 15:38:00
Middle East and North Africaage different

Again, deeshla, I agree with you. I like the way you think. What you say is so true not only in Morocco but in Egypt and I'm sure much of the ME/NA. That's what I was trying to say in my posts but ppl took it the wrong way. Young ME/NA men do not marry much older Western women for love alone. This is not saying they don't love their wives. But love is not the deciding factor.


Exactly :thumbs: I agree with you too. And, btw, I am 2 years older than my Moroccan husband. This has been a very personal issue for me, as well.

Amanda
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-27 14:35:00
Middle East and North Africaage different




Ironically, we are talking about getting my tubes untied and having a baby when I graduate. I guess I just had to find a man I knew would make a good father before I was willing to do that.


Oh totally off topic but I'm having the tubal ligation reversal done toooooo!!! Don't ya just wish you could turn back time and not have done it in the first place??? Will cost approx $6,000 to untie the suckers and no insurance reimbursement.


Only $6,000? I was told at least $7,000 last time I asked, and when I had a similar surgery this summer, the hospital bill alone was over $10,000. I'm guessing overall it will cost us about $15,000 for everything - Dr, anethesiologist, hospital, etc.

Honestly, I wouldn't turn back the clock. I had it done when I was 23 after my second son was born. When I think how many kids I would have probably had by now if I hadn't had it done I don't regret it. I was a freaking rabbit. My husband just had to look at me and I was pregnant (not quite, but I only missed my birth control once and got pregnant). Considering the cost to raise a kid, even $15,000 isn't so bad for 21 years of birth control.


I had this done last February. It did cost just a little under $6000.00, but I had it done at a surgical center rather than a hospital. The doctor only agreed to do it this way if I agreed to pay for a home visit from an RN. They said the surgery was a success, but I have yet to find out. It would help to actually have my husband here to find out for sure...lol


My questions would be -- did you meet on the internet? Do you have a common language? These are the other big red flags in Casa. I have met so many couples in Morocco where all of these red flags are up but they still got the visa -- but usually done through DCF -- this shows that the relationship is a little more valid -- seeing the woman stay in the home country with the man. Unfortunately, there is a new epidemic in Morocco of young 20-somethings men cruising the internet dating scene for older women -- the consulate knows all about it, as does the rest of the populace.

It isn't very normal within Moroccan culture for men to marry women that much older than them -- maybe 1-3 years or so, but not more than 5 or so. This is considered "hashouma" for better or for worse (i.e. whether we agree with it or not). Then again there are a few free-thinkers who just don't care and want a partnership. But most people agree that if the woman were not an American citizen (or a Canadian or a UK citizen, etc) the "attraction" would not be there.


I am not really sure what hashouma means, but to say that the attraction would not be there if we aren't American citizens is generalizing things a bit. Maybe that is not what you meant to say, I would hope not. If you are Muslim then I am sure you are quite aware that the Prophet Mohammed,s (PBUH) first and most prized wife was indeed several years older than him. Did he do it for some form of US citizenship? Maybe he felt sorry for her? I honestly doubt that. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so don't be so harsh. I know that isn't what you meant.

BTW, I am older than my husband, and I do know for a fact that the attraction is there. I get "hit on" by men of all ages here in the US, I was even called once a "hot momma" by a man my daugthers age. No, I am not bragging, just want you to understand that older doesn't always mean unattractive by any sense of the word.

Ramadan Karim to all.


7shouma -- darija for "shame" or "shameful." And remember I am not talking about specific cases (of which I am sure you are exempt) but generalities of culture. In general, in Moroccan culture, men do not marry women 15, or 20 years their senior. Ask anybody there who does not have a vested interest (a sociologist, a farmer, any woman you meet) and you will see that that is true.

I feel the reasons are economic. That is not to say that love is not part of the equation. And when I said "attraction" I did not mean physical attraction per se but those qualities that attract these men to want to marry a Western woman. A 23 year old Moroccan man rarely has the economic resources available to marry and have a family. This is why you see a lot of "older" (30s and 40s) men marrying young Moroccan women -- they have had to get a job (VERY difficult in Morocco - who else has seen the unemployment protests every week at parliment in Rabat?) and build some economic base to establish a household. This is a lot of pressure on Moroccan males, often impossible. You will see that many times men bring wives to live in their homes with their family instead of attempting to create their own home. I am talking about REAL Morocco -- the vast Berber countryside and mid-sized cities, not the Westernized suburbs or Casa and Rabat.
Not having resources is not a big deal for an older Western woman -- she has resources. She can provide, at least initially. This is very very attractive to a young man who feels that a.) he will never have a job or resources to marry and have a family and/or b.) really wants to live in the states/Canada/UK and try his luck there.

Why do you think it is only young men in the internet cafes chatting up women? Go into a Moroccan cybercafe and listen to men giving each other pointers, practicing phrases and primping for the webcams. Men in my English classes asked me to clarify romantic phrases for them so they could chat more effectively with their English-speaking web-loves. I know people here on VJ will hate for me to share these "generalizations" but if you think that this phenomenon of older women-very young men couples are just about a sudden loosening of long-held cultural values and romantic love gone beserk across the cyber-waves, well you are totally kidding yourselves.

By the way the example about the Prophet is a great one to show how His example with women helps guide Muslims, BUT it cannot replace and entire long-held cultural system that is in place because of all sorts of factors. And remember, while Morocco is Muslim, it is also Berber and for the most part agrarian and follows those cultural patterns even today.

I do not mean any disrespect or "harshness" to woman here married to young Moroccan men, but that is surely how it will be taken. I think it is just better to be honest about all the cultural forces behind what is happening to avoid problems in the long run. Just my 2 dirhams. :)

Amanda
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-27 12:45:00
Middle East and North Africaage different
My questions would be -- did you meet on the internet? Do you have a common language? These are the other big red flags in Casa. I have met so many couples in Morocco where all of these red flags are up but they still got the visa -- but usually done through DCF -- this shows that the relationship is a little more valid -- seeing the woman stay in the home country with the man. Unfortunately, there is a new epidemic in Morocco of young 20-somethings men cruising the internet dating scene for older women -- the consulate knows all about it, as does the rest of the populace.

It isn't very normal within Moroccan culture for men to marry women that much older than them -- maybe 1-3 years or so, but not more than 5 or so. This is considered "hashouma" for better or for worse (i.e. whether we agree with it or not). Then again there are a few free-thinkers who just don't care and want a partnership. But most people agree that if the woman were not an American citizen (or a Canadian or a UK citizen, etc) the "attraction" would not be there.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-09-25 13:38:00
Middle East and North AfricaTravel to Morocco

Well it's only a few months away, Inshallah, til my dad, Adil, and I got to Morocco. Thinking about the trip, I realized I don't really know much about the things we need to have to enter the country. My dad is applying for his passport and I already have mine, but I was wondering if we need a visa too? Also if we need any vaccinations or things like that? Please help so we can get it all done in time. Thank you!


Janine


***Also any sites that you have with the info would be helpful too! I can't seem to find any. Thanks***


Hi Janine,

You do not need a visa to visit Morocco or any vaccinations. However, being up-to-date on your rabies, tetnus and Hep B would be a plus. Also, remember that Morocco in the winter months can get extremely painfully cold (unless you are staying in Casa or Rabat) so pack layers. (I only mention this because people are always so shocked at how cold it can get there.)

FYI, you can get all medicines and things you need there, if the need arises. The big giant exception to this is TAMPONS.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-12 19:12:00
Middle East and North Africahoneymoon with the WHOLE family?

Girls.....

'sleeping around' does not equal 'feminist'. Ok?


Duh. Feminism is the belief that women and men have equal rights. Period. It is about women having choice. People are so afraid of the damn word. What is so scary about equal rights and choice? Anti-feminism comes in when people are prescribing roles and "morality" to all women, regardless of that woman's choice. A fully hijabed woman who waited until marriage to have sex can be just as much of a feminist as a non-married non-religious woman who has sex with people she chooses.

Dur!
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-13 13:42:00
Middle East and North Africahoneymoon with the WHOLE family?


The virgin / ####### dichotomy. There are shades of gray. Not every person who has sex before marriage is a free-wheeling #######.

I find it interesting that even women, when left to this discussion, will divide up other women into this dichotomy -- the way men have always done.

did someone use the word #######???


Yes - it was implied many many times -- look back a few pages and you will see -- phrases like "sleeping around" and references to porn or prostitution. That is just plain goofy. I do not think you were the one who used these words. Using that kind of language emotionalizes and polarizes a lot. And it is just not fair. There is a spectrum of experience between the street-walking prostitute and the virgin hymen-intact princess that waits until marriage. Just the diversity on this board should show that. What I do not understand is why people on this forum do not respect the individual choice (alas! feminism!) therein.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-13 13:27:00
Middle East and North Africahoneymoon with the WHOLE family?




Should I have the freedom or liberty to go out and kill someone because they cut me off in traffic? Of course not, things that we consider liberties here perhaps should not be. Premarital sex, in my opinion, is devastating to the society and should not be considered a liberty.

No, we should not have the liberty to kill people, and we do not, it is illegal.

I don't understand what your position is? That we should not refer to premarital sex as a liberty or that we should not have the right to engage in it? If it is the latter, then I fail to see how that would not involve making it illegal.

I never said I thought it should be legal. Some states in the US agree... or at least did at some point because there was, or in some cases still is, laws on the books banning premarital sex. :yes:
Adultery is illegal and if any court ever decided to uphold the law it could be enforced.... of course as long as the law makers and law enforcers continue to practice the same immoral and illegal action it's not gonna get enforced. :no: Should it not be a person's 'personal freedom' to sleep with whoever they want even if they're already married to someone else??
It's only a recent occurance that states are now beginning to abolish such laws from their books because someone considers it their 'personal freedom' to engage in this act. It has been illegal in many states of this country (although not enforced) since early days.
Before long there will be no laws in this country because everythng will be a liberty.


Ok, then I did understand your point correctly. That is what I assumed from what you had written. I said, "If it is the latter, then I fail to see how that would not involve making it illegal.", because of szsz's response that she didn't understand how I was relating making premarital sex illegal and your statement about refusing the liberty.

Szsz thought that my question about making premarital sex illegal came out of left field, but I don't think it did.


Jenn, this makes sense. Liberties are shared in a society. I think it must be that people feel very strongly about the "immorality" of premarital sex. (I am not one of those people.)

Liberty = freedom
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-13 13:07:00
Middle East and North Africahoneymoon with the WHOLE family?

Why does it follow that one must support others engaging in something they themselves disapprove of? And, if they don't approve, it follows that they advocate making it illegal? That doesn't make sense to me.

I don't support the liberty of raising children to believe they are entitled to receive whatever they want, which too many parents do these days, but making it illegal is not the solution to that, nor is supporting their "freedom" to do so.

One thing that you may want to consider is that when something immoral is celebrated and advocated, it is because there are people making money from it. Who's making money from free sex? Hugh Hefner, his pimp daughter, Christy, and their ilk. Porn stars, the Girls Gone Wild folks, cable channels, pharmaceutical companies, psychologists, film makers, etc., etc.

Who makes money off of those who are more modest about their sexuality and wait until marriage? No one.


The virgin / ####### dichotomy. There are shades of gray. Not every person who has sex before marriage is a free-wheeling #######.

I find it interesting that even women, when left to this discussion, will divide up other women into this dichotomy -- the way men have always done.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-13 12:58:00
Middle East and North Africahoneymoon with the WHOLE family?


For those of you who stayed with your hubby's family when you went to be married in their country...how'd that work out for ya?

I think that is what we will end up doing since they'll be moving to a bigger place and now he won't be sharing his room with his dad........BUT..........I mean.............. :blush: ....do I still buy the lil naughty nighties or throw in my Lands End long john's instead? lol

did the family give you your privacy at all? Just curious how your experience was. :whistle:



Lock the door.


I haven't had time to read this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned to doodle the "traditional" consumation practice of Arab people in much more "barbaric" times? ACCCCK ... gives me the willies. Ha ha ha.


You mean the passing around of the "bloody sheet"? Yuck. It still happens in Morocco, especially in rural parts. I attended many weddings where giggling matrons took me aside to explain the "facts of life" to me (assuming I was a virgin cause I wasn't married, ha!) and the where the blood came from....

As you were...
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-10 18:04:00
Middle East and North AfricaMarriage Protection & Recourse in Law and Faith

Wow, you girls sure know how to make religion look appealing!
Not.

When I sign up, do I get a certain number of Smiting Certificates along with my new judgemental vocabulary?

Without reading the minutia of this argument (again!) and understanding that I am a godless dog to you, I have to say that it's my opinion that God looks more benevolently on those who tend to their own personal relationship with him and aren't running around smacking down other humans--I mean, isn't that his job? It's my observation that when religious folk get too wound up in their rituals instead of what's behind the rituals are about as far from God as they can be.

Since you opened it up to non-Muslims.


This is about the most refreshing thing I've read on this forum. :)
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-15 20:13:00
Middle East and North AfricaQuestion

I think haram might be a little too strong a word to use. In Islam husbands and wifes are like cloaks for one another. They shelter and protect each other. It can be harmful and even dangerous to a relationship to expose private details about the other in a public forum.



For some people this forum is a "family" and there are not other people in their lives who they can vent to who will understand because they are not in a bi-national or bi-cultural relationship. Personally for me I could never post here private things. I have close family members (or firends who are like family to us both) that I could trust to bend their ear. Otherwise it stays between us.


Dudes, Why is this about Islam? I think relationships are (read: should be) private whether they are Muslim, Christian, Rastafarian or Shinto. To be honest, knowing how many people here on VJ that were able to "date" and "get engaged" on the internet, it might not be such a big jump to declare all personal matters on that space as well. The internet gives a false sense of privacy, methinks.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-19 23:27:00
Middle East and North AfricaWho has made more adjustments?


I might be being nosey... since I am not from the Middle East

But aside from the fact that you SO comes from another country, which is per se the MAJOR adjustment/change that they could do. I think all couples being new to living with each other go through different things, to adjust and adapt to a life in common.

Changes should not be 'requested' or at least I wouldnt 'request' because that would sound so much as an imposition, and believe me, even the most in-love person would react to that. As far as feeling guilty, that would also be wrong... it would be manipulative and for me that's a red flag.

Dont worry about your guy coming over, as difficult as it may be to leave everything behind, this is a choice he has made, for you, and if you try your best to support him through this process, changes and adaptations will happen without either of you even noticing.

Good luck on your interview, and congratulations in starting your new life together...

Ana


Some ME/NA men have firm ideas on what a woman should wear. Some want no dogs in the home. No pork, only halal meat. No male friends. Muslims in particular have certain ideas about cleanliness. Men from these regions may also think it should be the woman that cleaning even though it is his standard. Surely I am missing a few. I think these things should be discussed beforehand and worked out, but that doesn't always happen. These sound like horrible stereotypes but I think several women have seen one or more of these issues arise.


They happen a lot and American women get surprised when confronted with these things the first time. A big one, applicable to Western women, is the issue of having male friends. Most of my friends are male and my best friend is a man - I had to be sure that this would not pose a problem for my husband - and it hasn't. Have a heart-to-heart with your SO about these things and tell him your expectations as he will certainly tell you his. Don't wait for the surprise.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-19 14:12:00
Middle East and North AfricaArabic question

I bought my kids a "My First Words" Arabic dictionary, among other things, for Eid and I was looking through it with them tonight and I've come across something that's confusing me a little....
It has a picture of a mosque with ????? written under it. That's jaami'a? What dialect is this? I'm used to masjid ???? and have never heard this other word. Is it slang?


That is the word we use in Morocco.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-23 22:44:00
Middle East and North AfricaPolice Report/Morocco

My finacee has lived in the district of Sefrou, Morocco his entire life except a period of a few years when he lived in Marrakech and Casablanca because of his employment. Will he need to get a police report from Marrakech and Casablanca because we listed his prior employment there on the G325A? Or will the report that he gets in Sefrou cover his police record for the entire country? He never offically changed his address on anything except an identification card when he was in Casa, but that was many years ago. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance.


Just Sefrou. My husband had the same situation (different cities).
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-23 22:43:00
Middle East and North AfricaMonday Funday!

Well it's 12:51 CST and I get to start the Monday thread. I have been cooking for the last 5 hours and feel like I have not accomplished a darn thing! I really wanted to make tomorrow awesome for Youssef but I only got 3 kinds of cookies made and Msemmen tonight. I think tomorrow I will make Bghir and some oatmeal, fresh fruit and his favorite yogurt/milk/fruit drink for breakfast. Lunch I'm not positive about yet but probably a tagine of some sort and for dinner I want to make a big meal - with like 3-4 appetizers, a tagine or couscous and something else but I'm not sure what yet. I want to invite my mom and step-dad over for dinner to celebrate Eid with us, even though they are really not into the whole "my daughter is a Muslim" thing, I think it might help for them to celebrate with us.

We went shopping and get Youssef a few new things to wear tomorrow (Old Navy had a sale lol), and got our son some new toys for Eid. (He just got a bunch of new clothes). He got a play food set (Youssef thinks it's weird 'cus he's a boy but he LOVES to play cook) and some airplanes to go with his massive play car collection. I got a new shirt for work too.

I am supposed to start a new job tomorrow but the hiring manager didn't call me Friday afternoon like he said he would, or this weekend so I'm not really sure if I should just show up at the place tomorrow morning (I don't even know what time!) or if I should just wait and see. I'd like to stay home so that I can cook tomorrow but if I have to go I will obviously. I'm really happy to have gotten this job - the pay is so much better, plus it's a desk job which my body is really starting to need. I was diagnosed with anemia last week so being on my feet for 8 hours was really sucking the life out of me. Anyway this went way long! I hope everyone has a great day tomorrow and a Happy Eid if you're celebrating!!


Mabrouk Eid! I am jealous of the Bghrir - love that stuff dipped in honey! I might have to get off my butt and make some, too. ALthough when I make it, it is thick and rubbery. My "musskin" husband.

I think that is wonderful for you to invite your family over and celebrate Eid - and it will be education for them. We are planning a big party for Eid El Kebir / New Year's and invited our extended family. Probably will skip eating the Sheep's Head Couscous though. :)

Happy day
Amanda
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-23 15:49:00
Middle East and North AfricaI miss my country terribly

I know there is a local Masjid next to me but i don't wear veil so I am hesitated to go I never met someone in my area thatis of my religion till now ..I know that kara here in VJ is 2 hours away from me though we nevr met though ..
About my pregnancy my husband is doing his best to support my mother in law call me every 2 days to see how am I soing ..it's just with all the feats I felt alone ..First feat ever awya from my country away from my family ..Thank you very much for caring to reply .
Salwa


I understand how you feel. When I was living in Morocco (and thought I would be there for many more years) I always felt low during Christmastime - I could never get people to understand how festive this time was for me and my "tribe" -- that I needed chocolate and big feasts and sitting around the fireplace singing carols, etc. I remember people just laughed about the "big sock full of gifts" and suggested I eat an extra portion of tajine to make up for it.

I have a suggestion, though.

Have your own Eid with your husband! Tell him how important it is to you, what and how you celebrate with your family. Involve him in making a Eid treat and even invite people over to share in the food (anyway, that was how we did it in Morocco, lots of food and visiting!) - and then educate them about Eid. Ask your husband to imagine what it would be like to be in another country and have no reminder of Christmas (or Hannakuh, or whatever holiday is important to him). Even if you do not have a community to share the holiday, you can make a community of 2 in your own home. It might even be a nice tradition to start.

I feel for you. And Mabrouk Eid. Even as an ex-expat, I miss it too, so I can only imagine what you are feeling. But hang in there, and let yourself celebrate in some way - this will feel good.

My best,
Amanda
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-22 16:20:00
Middle East and North AfricaMiddle Names?

Wow that was a smart move! So where are you from?


Tennessee. Any other Southerners on here?
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-25 23:17:00
Middle East and North AfricaMiddle Names?





I didn't know you were pregnant either! Congrats!


Thanks! :) I guess I am so used to it, it doesn't feel like "news." Conceived in Morocco, born in America - this little guy has travelled.



Boy I am way behind... I thought you were in Morocco... oopsies!


I was for a long time - we decided to have the baby here. I travelled in August (didn't want to travel in 3rd trimester) and he stayed in Morocco to finish a project for his business. He will be here on Friday.



aww I' bet you're excited! How fast was DCF in Casa?


Super fast. I started the process (filed a petition) on June 23 and his interview was July 25th. He got his visa the next day.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-25 19:44:00
Middle East and North AfricaMiddle Names?



I didn't know you were pregnant either! Congrats!


Thanks! :) I guess I am so used to it, it doesn't feel like "news." Conceived in Morocco, born in America - this little guy has travelled.



Boy I am way behind... I thought you were in Morocco... oopsies!


I was for a long time - we decided to have the baby here. I travelled in August (didn't want to travel in 3rd trimester) and he stayed in Morocco to finish a project for his business. He will be here on Friday.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-25 18:28:00
Middle East and North AfricaMiddle Names?

I didn't know you were pregnant either! Congrats!


Thanks! :) I guess I am so used to it, it doesn't feel like "news." Conceived in Morocco, born in America - this little guy has travelled.
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-25 16:47:00
Middle East and North AfricaMiddle Names?



Adil says no to middle names, but I think I will get to choose that one. I mean, the woman is the one who really gets to name the child right? If not, we should since we carried it in our belly for 9 months!


We are using a middle name for our baby -- something from my family. I like the flow of a having a middle name. The first name will be Moroccan. Or the first name will be from my family and the middle name Moroccan -- I am due in 2 weeks and we still haven't made up our minds!


Did we know you were pregnant? Well, if I knew, I forgot. So congrats! :D


Thanks! :) We are very excited! We affectionately call him "the hybrid."
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-25 16:40:00
Middle East and North AfricaMiddle Names?

Adil says no to middle names, but I think I will get to choose that one. I mean, the woman is the one who really gets to name the child right? If not, we should since we carried it in our belly for 9 months!


We are using a middle name for our baby -- something from my family. I like the flow of a having a middle name. The first name will be Moroccan. Or the first name will be from my family and the middle name Moroccan -- I am due in 2 weeks and we still haven't made up our minds!
deeshlaNot TellingMorocco2006-10-25 12:01:00