Forum	Title	Content	Member	Sex	Country	Date/Time
Middle East and North Africa	Middle Names?	Adil says no to middle names, but I think I will get to choose that one. I mean, the woman is the one who really gets to name the child right? If not, we should since we carried it in our belly for 9 months! We are using a middle name for our baby -- something from my family. I like the flow of a having a middle name. The first name will be Moroccan. Or the first name will be from my family and the middle name Moroccan -- I am due in 2 weeks and we still haven't made up our minds!	deeshla	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-25 12:01:00
Middle East and North Africa	Moroccan Men & Foreign Brides	I don’t know if anyone is still reading this post, but I just recently googled myself and was surprised to see my article as the subject of so much discussion. I wrote this article just as I was leaving Morocco about two years ago. Thanks to all for the positive feedback. Some of you mentioned that this is was a sociological phenomena that someone should write a book about. I couldn’t agree more, and while I’m not a terribly serious writer, that was part of my intention with this article. I had just noticed something peculiar about the society that I was living in, and I wanted to document it. The descriptions and explanations that I had offered were the result of my observations and opinions, not any sort of psychiatric or sociological research. Although, in the years that have passed since I wrote this article, it seems to have become a much hotter topic. Simply the fact that there is now a web forum devoted to it is proof positive of that. It seems to be a growing phenomenon as well, as communication networks improve efficiency and Americans growing more and more aware of the outside world (the silver lining of the otherwise unfortunately newsworthy events in the Mid East and North Africa). I wouldn’t be surprised to see a book or a serious study of internet relationships arise within the next couple of years. At the very least, I can see a transatlantic dating/matchmaking service popping up. Private enterprise is usually the first to surf the wave of a growing trend. Deeshla, you mentioned that you know me, but I don’t remember that name. I’m guessing it’s a screen name. But you are correct in saying that I married a Moroccan woman. We actually just passed our second anniversary, and making all the plans (children, career, lifestyle) that accompany that territory. I didn’t meet her over the internet, she was my host-town sweetheart and actually had a rather traditional relationship over a sizable period of time before I proposed. Not to say that as a critique of an internet marriage. As I tried to make the final point article, I don’t think there was anything markedly different in the successes of internet marriages vs “traditional ones”. While it seemed unusual to me, it wasn’t any more unusual from any of the other lifestyle differences that I got used to over there. My final realization was that to say that an Internet romance was wrong or incorrect or irresponsible would be judgmental, pure and simple. If I trust that the people who are involving themselves in an Internet relationship are responsible adults, not costing any outside party or society at large any harm, then why should their choice to do so be any of my business? Doesn’t any relationship have its share of gaps to overcome? Is it inherently more worrisome than a couple who meet in a bar, both of whom went there looking to score that evening and may or may not have been sober enough to remember the circumstances surrounding their first meeting? I understand the concern that people would have seeing someone they cared about involved in an Internet relationship. Certainly, the idea of a fully developed and responsible relationship coming through such remote means takes a bit of a leap of faith. But considering the responses that I’ve seen so far in this posting, and from my own experiences both here and over there, successful relationships come in all shapes, sizes, structures and colors. A little concern certainly shows you care, but concern because you care and concern because you want to control can be a fine line. I have to believe that sometimes the best way to care about someone is to trust and respect their decisions. Sharif! It is Amanda from Peace Corps. Ice cream in Fes? I will send you a personal message.	deeshla	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-26 16:23:00
Middle East and North Africa	Moroccan Men & Foreign Brides	With all the talk here lately about men marrying for greencards, relax. So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together. I think that is naive. How can those two go together? I know some of these men and love is invented as they go along in an overblown romantic sort of way. Marriage, I thought, was about partnership and respect and friendship. Love and romance figure in strongly too - but this is something not easily fused in the Moroccan culture. Men and women are married in mostly arranged marriages. Western women are "outside the fold" of the Moroccan social structure and are thus "easier" and free. The religious conscience is soothed by knowing she must be a Christian, at least marginally. It is more of a business contract. Man gets a visa and a new life and access to money. Woman gets overblown romantic husband and fantasies fulfilled. It is all very strange and I keep waiting for a sociologist to write a book about it. By the way, I personally know the man, Sharif, who wrote this article. He married a Moroccan woman and I married a Moroccan man -- so I am not throwing stones -- I just see so much of this that iit s starting to get ridculous. Deeshla Deeshla, just out of curiosity are you moroccan as well? Are you living in the United States? If so, how did you migrate to this country. I appreciate your thoughts, however, what I find naive is many of the middle-eastern marriages (inlcuding india), where the couple are from the same country, but for whatever the reason, the wife is left in the home country for "x" amount of time. While the husband is here frequenting american lovers and strip bars. More than not those are arranged marriages. What are your thoughts if a muslim-american woman just wants to marry a muslim man from a muslim country with the hopes of leading a strong by faith partnership? Just one last thought, marriage IS a parntership/business, you have to sign a contract. It is a partnership, and for the lucky ones, that includes love, caring and much understanding. I agree with you. For the record I am an American woman married to a Moroccan man. In honesty, I believe people should get married for whatever reasons they want -- as long as there is mutual consent (seeing 13 year-olds get married in the "bled" makes me wonder about this) I have seen really successful arranged marriages here -- where love comes later. And I have seen romantic marriages fizzle after a few years. Conversely I have seen horrible arranged marriages (women in the Moroccan countryside are considered damaged-goods after divorce) - horrible for the woman expecially... And I have seen romantic marriages grow and blossom over time (my parents!) About strong faith by partnership - sounds good, I just hope there is more in the mix besides a common religion. What freaks me out are internet love affairs that turn into engagements, overseas. I know this might get me hate mail and/or criticism -- but I just don't get it. That is not to say it isn't possible - if I start to break it down I see that it is possible. But after seeing all the deception in internet cafes here (it is common for me to give struggling men English lessons as they correspond with their fiancees) I feel like some women are getting shafted. But if they know what it is, really know what this contract is -- a chance for the man to get out of Morocco, etc -- then more power to them. And I believe a loving relationship could bloom from that. But this is what I think is naive - assuming that marriage = romance despite the motives on both parties. I agree that marriage is a partnership and business contract. So much is about logistics. Love is important but it cannot sustain a marriage in my opinion - I think there needs to be a certain common ground, an ability to really live in the same space and work towards common goals. But then again I have only been married for a month so what do I know!!??	deeshla	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-29 19:53:00
Middle East and North Africa	Moroccan Men & Foreign Brides	With all the talk here lately about men marrying for greencards, relax. So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together. I think that is naive. How can those two go together? I know some of these men and love is invented as they go along in an overblown romantic sort of way. Marriage, I thought, was about partnership and respect and friendship. Love and romance figure in strongly too - but this is something not easily fused in the Moroccan culture. Men and women are married in mostly arranged marriages. Western women are "outside the fold" of the Moroccan social structure and are thus "easier" and free. The religious conscience is soothed by knowing she must be a Christian, at least marginally. It is more of a business contract. Man gets a visa and a new life and access to money. Woman gets overblown romantic husband and fantasies fulfilled. It is all very strange and I keep waiting for a sociologist to write a book about it. By the way, I personally know the man, Sharif, who wrote this article. He married a Moroccan woman and I married a Moroccan man -- so I am not throwing stones -- I just see so much of this that iit s starting to get ridculous. Deeshla	deeshla	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-26 17:51:00
Middle East and North Africa	Doubts part II	Never said it wasn't possible sowy. I'm sorry but I think that even if you have had 3 years of an internet relationship that your relationship can only go so far. There is a huge difference between talkign to someone on the phone and living with them, sharing a room, going places together, etc. Only go so far.....I think its quite clear. You most definlty build a strong foundation on the internet, but I think there are many many members here that can attest to the fact that things changed dramatically once they lived together. Which may I add also has nothing to do with having sex. Amen to that thumbs up. I agree 100%	deeshla	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-26 23:50:00
Middle East and North Africa	Nontraditional Fiance	The problem is one of marriage fraud - not on the part of unsuspecting Western woman -- but on the part of the (mostly younger) Moroccan men who devote all of their spare time to wooing women on the internet, then proposing to them. I am NOT suggesting that this is the case with you -- just that it is happening so much that it is considered something of an epidemic here in Morocco. Every time I go to the consulate I meet newly married women from the states with their Moroccan spouses - there are some themes: 1.) met on the internet and/or 2.) woman is greatly older than man (somtimes 30-40 years and/or 3.) couple seem extremely unnatural together. This must be raising a colossal red flag with immigration officials. And reports from these unions keep pouring in -- man dumps American wife for real Moroccan wife then takes advantage of status. I know a fellow Peace Corps volunteer who wrote an article about the phenomenon. Living here with a Moroccan husband makes me sensitive to this issue. If two people want to marry, they should be able to marry -- whether or not they conform to some random CO's definition of acceptable. (And similarly, when I got married Moroccan-style it really wasn't anyone's business if I was a virgin or not -- but we were both extensively questioned about this). Also, people tend to assume (especially expats and other Moroccan men) that he is in it for the visa. This is totally frustrating and humilating for both of us, but is just one of many things that we have had to navigate and accept in this process. I think whoever said the thing about validating the relationship has a point. An internet love affair is pretty hard to believe, but it seems to constitute the majority of the marriages I see here. This is a new social movement -- Western women finding love and companionship from very romantic marraige and kid-ready virile Moroccan men and those men finding a way up and out of a country that has extremely high unemployment and low prospects. This may not be the reasoning initially, but I think it is the "latent function" of these unions. Not all, of course -- but enough to put Casa on guard. Like mentioned before -- what they are doing is legal -- and if evidence of marriage fraud is happening, I guess this is their way of culling. Deeshla	deeshla	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-25 22:14:00
Middle East and North Africa	What are the required documents to marry in Morocco?	Hi there. Becoming a resident in Morocco isnt the easiest thing in the world. I became a resident when I worked in Casablanca as a teacher. However it took a really long time for all the paperwork from my employer to reach the officals then for them to issue me a residency card. It was actually about 9 months after I started working that I was a resident. I also worked for an American School that had affiliation with the Dar America and Im thinking that we the employees there had an easier time getting the residency card than others. I had one friend who was married in morocco and filed directly to the consulate. It took about a year for everything to get done. Thats my bit of info...im sure others have different experiences.. good luck, sarah Things are a bit faster now I think. The first time I became a resident and got my card the actual getting-of-the-card process took 10 months, but I had the receipt from the police and this was enough to certify as "resident." I think it is true that depending on your work situation, times vary -- my work (also as a teacher) was speedy with paperwork and the new carte de sejour was issued in a matter of weeks. The actual DCF time is super fast. Everyone I know who has done it has not waited more than 2 months. As I said, mine is taking about a month - they try to get it done before you want to travel. The people at the consular have been very nice and personable.	deeshla	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-29 19:35:00
Middle East and North Africa	What are the required documents to marry in Morocco?	I would very much like to know more about the DCF..... You can do the DCF in Casablanca -- I am not sure what the residency requirement is. In general, you can become a resident in Morocco after 3 months and with some sort of documentation -- volunteer, employment attestation, etc. I was asked a few times how long I have lived in Morocco (I have been living here for almost 3 years) but no one ever mentioned a 6 month requirement. You can find scant info on the consular website: http://www.usembassy...vices/Consular/ and email the staff directly for more information. Having said that, I have a met a few women who have seemingly flown into Morocco for a few weeks and are now in the process of marrying their Moroccan and then, presumably, doing DCF to go back to the states. I am not sure how that works or even if it WILL work, but that is what they are doing.	deeshla	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-29 13:07:00
Middle East and North Africa	What are the required documents to marry in Morocco?	I would recommend that you consider the K1. Just look at the timelines on here and decide from there. Unless you can do a direct consular filing, the marriage visas in Morocco take a very long time and the approval rate seems to be much lower for them than the K1. Abdel and I were going to marry there but I found VJ first and am really glad I did. We would probably still be apart if we had gone that route. just my two cents. Actually, you can do DCF in Casablanca. It is extremely fast. The marriage process can take a while but as I said above I think it can be done in a month, if you devote yourselves to it entirely. DCF takes 1-2 months. For us it looks like it will only take a month from petition filed to visa.	deeshla	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-26 17:27:00