Forum	Title	Content	Member	Sex	Country	Date/Time
Philippines	ANSWERED PRAYER - my interview experience, jan 8, 2008	QUOTE (beng_and_carl @ Jan 9 2008, 05:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mabuhay! We (longwait2, pinktulips and james&rachel) stayed the night before in Riviera Mansion, 1 minute away from the US Embassy. Sis Rachel (who will have her interview on February) met us in the hotel and opted to stay with us since she was feeling excited for our interview and she wanted to make some chikka with us. We had a great dinner in my favorite barbeque restaurant in Malate. We also had a rehearsal for the interview questions. It was like a Ms. Universe Pageant for us! Hahaha!!! We planned to sleep early but it didn't happen coz we had lots of chatting, girl talk – about our fiancés, love story and kinky stuffs. Around 12 midnight, we felt sleepy and started to sleep with a prayer in our hearts that God will lead our way for our BIG day tomorrow! I woke up around 2.30AM – feeling so anxious, excited, MIXED EMOTIONS!!! All the girls were up by 3AM. Then, I called Chowking for our breakfast delivery. We had a wonderful breakfast before we proceed to the embassy. Around 5AM, we prayed before we leave the hotel. Everybody was feeling goose bumps and I even cried a little coz in few minutes, the last part of the K1 journey will about to end. ------------------------------------------ We arrived in front of the US Embassy on Jan 8, 2008 around 5.15AM. We walked a bit from the non-immigrant visa line to the waiting area for the immigrant visa applicants. We sat down at the benches near the gate. We didn't pay for the chairs for rent coz there's one bench, which is enough for us. While waiting outside, all of us were texting and calling our loved ones to pray for us for our judgment day. Around 5.45AM, one of the manangs who were selling some stuffs shouted that those with 7.30AM appointment can now fall in line. So, we hurried and almost ran. Hehe! We gave our mobile phones and other electronic gadgets to Rachel who waited for us the whole morning outside the embassy. Flow of my interview proceedings: 1. Fall in-line outside the embassy. >> at this moment, prepare your appointment letter with a valid ID (NBI clearance is ok) to be presented in a while to the guard. 2. The guard checked my appointment letter and my ID. He checked if I'm the one on my ID photo. 3. Electronic scanner portion – all of your things are scanned here. So, if you brought with you any electronic gadget, you will be sent outside and fall in-line again. So better check your bag/s twice! 4. Just follow the line and you will be directed to the immigrant visa unit - right side portion of the building. Take a seat at the blue chairs and wait for the instruction of the embassy staff/guards. 5. I noticed that the family-based visa applicants were first called and directed to a window slot. 6. For us, K filers, the guard called us and we fell in line at the “Ticketing Window” where all of your DS forms (2 ds 156, 2 ds 157-1 on-line & 1 from the bank; 1 ds 156k) which is near the wash room and across the Delbros booth. 7. The lady gave me 7013 as my queuing number and I told that that is my lucky number coz that is my birthday, July 13/ 0713. And the lady smiled. 8. After few minutes, my NAME (not my priority number) was called for the finger scanning. When I was doing this, the embassy staff who was administering the finger scanning was holding a 2-inch thick folder. And I notice that that is our petition documents. Amazing! 9. I waited for 30-45 minutes for my number to be flashed on the board for the pre-interviewer session. I was called to Window 19. The gentleman there was nice. I greeted him good morning and he replied. After reading my name on his docs, he said that I have a nice name coz my last name is one of the angels mentioned in the bible (Cherubims). So I thanked him. Then, he asked if I'm from Lucena City and said yes. He told me that he once worked there. He even asked what is the famous food/dish in Lucena and if the old famous restaurant is still there. After those chats, he asked for my fiance's name and his job. My fiancé is a cook so he said that I'll become bigger when I get there! Hehehe!!! And how we were introduced. Then, he asked for Carl's financial support docs. So I gave him my Folder 1 – financial support docs. Then, he asked for our photos so I gave as well the whole folder of our photos together. Then, he asked how many times did Carl visit me and the duration/date of his visit. Then, he asked for our correspondences so I gave him my Folder 4A which contains our cards, waybills, phone bills, money transfer receipts, cargo and courier receipts, etc plus our emails. Then, he returned to me my Folder 1 – financial support docs and told me to just give him the affidavit of support and Carl's 2006 tax documents. So, I gave them to him. And he said to wait for my number to be called again. I thanked him and told him to please visit our province if he has time since it's very different now. 10. Around 10.30 AM, the K1 queuing numbers were started flashing on the screen and we (girls) retouched our make ups and we're so excited and nervous! Wahahahaha!!! 11. Around 10.45AM, my number flashed and I proceeded outside the Room 32 - the last room for the consular interview. I was praying while waiting – asking for the Holy Spirit to be with me. 12. When I entered the room, I smiled and greeted the Lady consul (who looks like Princess Diana) and she replied. Then, I waited for 10-15 seconds coz she was talking with a staff and typing something on her computer. Then, the ball started rolling! Below were questions to me: a. How did you meet your fiancé? >> introduced to me by my aunt on the phone b. What's the name of your aunt? Is she in the US? Since when and how long? c. Why did your aunt introduce your fiancé to you? I told her the story of our meeting on the phone and she was smiling while I was discussing it to her. d. What's the job of your fiancé? e. What was he doing on the new year's eve? f. Do you have any other relatives aside from your aunt in the US? g. You went abroad, right? >> yes h. What did you do in these countries and how long did you stay? i. Did you talk about if you will be working in the US when you get there? And what job? At the last part of our conversation, she said that my documents were fine and they are just going to do some verification. Then, I replied to her “Thank you so much Ma'am. Have a nice day. God bless you”. And she replied, “you're welcome and wait for your number to be called outside”. All in all, my conversation with her was really enjoying and spontaneous. It was like talking to a friend who is interrogating me. . It was like talking to a friend who is interrogating me. 13. As I was waiting outside, all the girls were smiling. Meaning, all of us were APPROVED!!! Then, my name was called on Window 38. My number didn't flash on the board so I was nervous. But we were almost 10 applicants that were called on that window and I saw our documents with the nice gentleman on that window. I was the first one to fall in line and then, he asked for my name and queuing number. Then, he told me that they need to do some document verification. So I told him that I already paid the P650 since I saw for their website. He was so surprised. Then, I showed him my receipt and the printed out instruction from Delbros which I downloaded from the USEM website. He looked at it and he gave it back to me. He gave a pink slip with my appointment letter and another document from them. I FELT RELIEVED!!! Then, he returned to me my folders. 14. Then, I paid to the Delbros the P165 courier fee. Few minutes after this, I was crying softly coz my prayers are answered! THANK GOD and Praise Him! I also felt sadness for the idea that I will be leaving my family especially my mom, my friends and my country…soon. ---------------------------------- When we went outside, we were looking for Rachel who patiently and nervously waited for us the whole morning. I will never forget that moment when I saw her running, teary eyed and so happy to see us. There was also a funny moment that we didn't know where to go out coz we were so excited to tell the good news to Rachel. Hehehe!!! We met Rachel with our good news. Me and Rachel were crying coz we were so emotional for what happened. All of us were sooooooo happpppyyy and blessed on that day!!! PRAISE GOD!!! When I was talking to my baby Carl, he told me that he didn't go to work coz he was so excited, nervous and anxious for the result of my interview. My baby was so happy to know that I successfully passed my interview. Then, we met Mike and Beth for lunch. The VJ family had a great lunch in Chowking! Hehehe!!! ~~~~~~~~~ To Mike and Beth, thanks for the tips. I'm so blessed to have you as my friends. To Ate Cheng, Ate Kat and Sis Rachel, I enjoyed our time together. You will always be my sisters. I will cherish our bonding moments forever. God bless you and your fiancés/husbands and best wishes to the another chapter of your lives. Our VJ Family, the word THANK YOU is not enough to express how I feel for being so blessed for knowing and being here in this forum. More power and I am always praying for the continuous success of this site. We love you, our VJ Family! To my officemates, thanks for the support, understand, patience and prayers throughout this journey. To my friends, thanks a lot for all your support, guidance and prayers. I will certainly miss you. To all the people that I met on-line who guided me throughout this process, our warm thanks!!! To my family especially to my mom and ate flower, THANKS A LOT for everything! I love you and I will miss you… To my baby, my destiny, my life, my Carl, as what I am always telling you, I am so blessed and thankful to have you in my life. The word LOVE is not enough to describe how I feel for you. I LOVE YOU SOOOO MUCH!!! Thanks for our LOVE that is DEEP and LASTING!!! And I cannot wait to meet you soon… Forever is sooo sooonnn!!! Most of all, to my Friend, Father, Companion, our Lord Jesus Christ… We offer our success to You!!! Thanks for softening the hearts of the pre-screener and most of all, the Lady Consul. Thank you sooo much for granting my petition! We love you, Jesus! Mama Mary, my mother, thank you and we love you. Thank you for embracing us with your love. Papa God, you know what is inside our hearts… AMEN! May God bless you both in your new life together!!!!!	Gringita/Morenito	Female	Peru	2008-01-09 22:54:00
Philippines	yeheeey, NOA2 here !!!	Wow, good for you!	greg584	Male	Hong Kong	2009-02-28 00:04:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	Biometrics - Hammond Indiana	So you have to do biometrics again? My wife did it before her conditional interview. I've been out of the game for awhile so...I need to learn what we have to do next.	dmaddox74	Male	China	2006-11-15 15:36:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	Receipt Notice - Finally here!!!!	So you have to do biometrics again? My wife did it before her conditional interview. I've been out of the game for awhile so...I need to learn what we have to do next.	dmaddox74	Male	China	2006-11-15 15:31:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	INS Update	I called today and was informed that if I mailed my wife's application after July 2007 (which I did) there is a 90 day delay. I sent it Fed EX 2 weeks ago and they still haven't cashed the check. So now, my wife's application somewhere deep in the heart of Texas...	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-10-29 14:33:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	NOA	Hey Everyone, Most likely, just like everyone else in the room I have been out of the game for a couple of years. When do you think I'll receive the NOA, I sent our application almost 2 weeks ago. -Thanks	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-10-29 09:39:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	Checked Cashed at TSC	Thanks Guys! It's nice to hear some support from people who understand	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-11-07 09:34:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	Checked Cashed at TSC	TSC received my wife's application Oct 16, 2007 and the checked was cashed today. I still haven't received her NOA.	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-11-07 09:06:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	My check has not been cashed, it has been almost 3 weeks	The TSC received my application Oct 16, 2007 and just cashed it yesterday. I hope this helps.	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-11-08 09:34:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	Received NOA	thank you	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-11-09 12:35:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	Received NOA	I received my wife's NOA yesterday on the bottom left of the NOA had a California address, so I guess CSC is now handling my wife's case. Either way, I'm happy that I received my wife's NOA. BTW, does my wife have to get more shots or just fingerprints, because she's pregnant.	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-11-09 11:00:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	Filing in November	I'll give you some real anxiety. I sent my application Oct 15 and they received it Oct 17 and I still haven't received an NOA. In addition, when I called they told me they have 3 months to send an NOA and they couldn't even verified that they received it. Cheers	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-11-05 09:48:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	Our check was cashed Yesterday!!!	I think I was too. Look on the bottom on the NOA at the address	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-11-09 11:05:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	Biometrics	A couple of days ago we received my wife's appointment for biometrics Nov 20, 2007	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-12-13 14:21:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	check or money order?	I wish I would've used an money order only because they still haven't cashed my check yet and they received it Oct 17. I check my balance online but I don't necessarily balance my check book. Actaully, I don't even own one. So...now I have to make sure there is always 545.00 in my checking account.	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-11-05 09:52:00
Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion	I-751 (Services Centers applications status)	TSC received 10/17/2007 and I haven't received an NOA yet nor have they cashed the check.	dmaddox74	Male	China	2007-10-30 11:17:00
Philippines	k-2 interview	Her kids will be going thru K-2 interview at US Embassy Manila ,Can any kind folks here in VJ land help us with some examples of questions they will be asked .Thanks so much Edited by rcrge, 28 February 2009 - 10:16 PM.	rcrge	Male	Philippines	2009-02-28 22:15:00
Philippines	k-2 interview questions US Embassy Manila	Hi all anyone can help us with sample questions her children will get at their K-2 visa interview us embassy manila ? and what sort of proof do they need to bring with them as well	rcrge	Male	Philippines	2009-03-28 21:46:00
Philippines	what to expect to pay to fly out of manila	i hope to get help here. bringing the kids over on k-2 now what is the procedure if you buy tickets from expedia ? what besides departure tax is there also wh have affadavit of consent support and authoriztion from philippine consulate los angeles is there anything else we are needinf for the kids to leave manila relatively hassle free ?	rcrge	Male	Philippines	2009-04-13 20:41:00
Philippines	hotels near st lukes and us embasy manila	any kind folks tell us where her three children can get hotel near us embassy and st lukes for their medical for k-2	rcrge	Male	Philippines	2009-04-17 20:40:00
Philippines	DNA testing at st lukes	hey guys anyone had to have DNA collected at st lukes ? what do they charge for collecting the sample only one daughter out of my wifes three kids need it for K- 2 . is that lame of the embassy or what	rcrge	Male	Philippines	2009-05-30 19:28:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	US Citizen losing Citizenship...	From what I understand you can lose your citizenship if you bear arms/fight in a war against the U.S. Or voluntarily renounce your citizenship. And yes, a naturalized citizen may be stripped of their citizenship, if it is found that they gained it through fraudulent means. Don't stress so much and cross your bridge when you come to it! Good luck, girl.	sachinky	Female	India	2009-12-03 05:15:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Renouncing Citizenship	Why apply for U.S. citizenship at all? It's not going to get you anything more than the right to vote or higher priority immigration benefits. Keep renewing your GC. Hold on to your British citizenship. You can move there when you get old and need subsidized health care.	sachinky	Female	India	2009-12-08 03:09:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	11 year old dependant; what happens if something happens to green card mom?	Have your wife file for her USC naturalization. If the child is below the age of 18, he will automatically become a USC. I am not sure about the adoption procedures. Contact an attorney.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-01-31 07:17:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Miami Interview Today!	Seriously? This is the dreaded citizenship test people study for? What a laugh. Congratulations, btw.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-02-19 14:43:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	Fair enough. This thread is no longer fun.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-11 17:30:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	Darn it, we were having SUCH a nice conversation, why'd you have to and apologize now? Meh, I AM rather indifferent to the subject--that is, whether the "place of birth" should be there or not. It doesn't matter to me or the large picture, in any which way. That said, I doubt it will be changed--it's there just like your name, age, sex and will continue to be there for the foreseeable future. Is there some great justification to it being there? Not that I can think of apart from "security" and I don't know how much sense that makes. Reciprocity might be another reason. Now is there any reason for it to be omitted either? Nah, especially if "had to wait for a few minutes/mean looks at the foreign POE" is the supposed reason. Please, I'm not picking on you or anybody, for that matter. This is not the school yard and I'm not the bully. What DOES interest me is this whole angle that has crept in now. This whole bit where a bunch of you claim this is "discrimination" by the US government, where does the fault/responsibility lie, concepts such as rights/equality, citizenship -- both natural born (jus soli and jus sanguinis) and acquirement through naturalization. And such. Edited by sachinky, 11 March 2010 - 04:06 PM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-11 16:01:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	No pun intended, but I have a feeling that people who come here with an attitude will have a very hard time integrating and living happy lives in US. Not because you can't but because you mock and reject what you don't understand. It is fine by me because at a certain scale, every immigrant who came here thought at the beginning that they're better then everyone else here and the rest is just a bunch of fools, but not so much to this extent. Eventually and hopefully you will understand how this country works, the laws, the rules and lifestyle, the rights and freedoms we enjoy and the blood that was shed by the founding fathers just for us to enjoy the treatment and respect all around this land. The American way, the civilized way is to write and sign petitions and letters you so easily make fun of and not to go around throwing stones or ripping people's hair off to prove a point as hey do in other countries. The voice of the people counts here because the power belongs to the people through voting. Representatives and Senators listen "to a piece of paper" more than they "listen" to a looter who's going to be sent in jail for vandalism. That is the American way and the sooner you understand it, the better and easier your life will be in this country. Actually, ziia, I did spend four wonderful years in the U.S. I liked it very much and enjoyed my time and am thrilled to be moving back there permanently to be with my husband. As an eighteen year old, fresh off the boat, I integrated extremely well, even if I say so myself. I was never homesick, had plenty of friends, loved my college and the town I was in. Several professors even commented on my ability to be flexible, friendly, and fit in. I did lead a very happy and fulfilling life, thanks for wondering. I do understand a lot more about "how this country works, the laws, the rules and lifestyle, the rights and freedoms we enjoy and the blood that was shed by the founding fathers just for us to enjoy the treatment and respect all around this land" than you think I do. As a history and political science major, I had to extensively study U.S. history and politics and write detailed papers, so please don't assume that I'm just spewing nonsense. I didn't and don't consider myself worse off or better than Americans, naturalized or natural born. I was and still am extremely good friends with plenty of Americans and other international students. I am who I am and I am comfortable with that. And, no, I don't consider anyone to be a fool. I was just emphasizing my point. Which primarily is that you're all making a mountain out of a molehill. You can write as many petitions as you want, I doubt it's going to change anything -- it's not exactly a hot-button issue, and it's not a big deal as you're all making it out to be. However, I appreciate your concern and efforts in trying to make my life easier and better in the U.S. Edited by sachinky, 11 March 2010 - 02:49 PM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-11 14:44:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	--"The bottom line is still a naturalized citizen is NOT like a natural born citizen and this is NOT an emotional statement, it's a fact." I totally agree with you, Nick, on this one. Honestly, I'm not sure why height/weight, eye color and such are not put on the U.S. passport. My Indian passport contains my permanent address, both my parent's name and my spouse's name. I'm not sure if there are standardized procedures for passports or if countries just get to pick and choose categories apart from the obvious required ones. --Now before ya'll accuse me of mocking you and not taking your "problems" seriously (it's true--I don't think it is a problem) I was just trying to give it some perspective. Presumably, this discrimation happens only at the immigration line. Once you're outside, I think it's safe to say that people don't take turns to look at your passport and then on viewing the place of birth continue to harass you or make pissy remarks about being a traitor and such. Sure, it's inconvenient and no one likes being harassed unnecessarily after a long flight. Honestly, I don't even think there is any real need for that place of birth. (Shockingly enough, I actually agree with you.) But it's there just like your age, sex, name and such. Should we remove those too? So what are you gonna do about it? Oh right, write some letters and sign a few petitions. Is it going to make a difference? Doubtful. I look forward to hearing about the countless replies to the letters you all write. --Again, the chip idea is a good solution to the problem posed here. In agreement even with that. However, do I think that the DOS will insert new expensive microchips in all U.S. passports because a few naturalized citizens are facing a ten minute wait at the immigration counter while visiting their former country? Not likely. Especially when it is common knowledge that a U.S. passport is extremely coveted and usually gets you preferential treatment in most countries. Sure, there might be some bureaucratic jerks who enjoy being a royal PITA but somehow I don't see the U.S. government being terribly concerned with that. --Now, chances are even if they somehow omit it or let you leave it blank, you will still face ill treatment from ignorant immigration officials. Unless you're white, blond, blue eyed, and speak English with a flawless American accent and have a name like John Smith. Your Indian/Spanish/East European/African sounding name might give it away. Your physical appearance is usually a dead giveaway. Sure, they might not ask you to produce any documents or get a passport of that countrry, but those "mean looks" that you're all complaining about will continue, regardless. For example, If I ever were to become a USC and did not have "Calcutta, India" written under the "place of birth" do you think the Calcutta immigration officials would just presume I'm an American just like the rest of them? My name and looks would instantly reveal I am a Bengali and they'd be correct. --No, I'm no professor, just a recent history/political science college graduate who finds such concepts, laws and arguments interesting. Edited by sachinky, 11 March 2010 - 09:53 AM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-11 09:51:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	--Ohmygod. Yes, you're all USCs. And yes, you're deserving of the same treatment as natural-born citizens. And you ARE treated equally! By the U.S. government! Which is the only element in this equation that matters. Other countries couldn't give a damn, and I'm not sure why the U.S. is supposed to care or be responsible for how immigration officials behave in another country. (The only place you can legitimately claim "discrimination" by the U.S. government is the whole POTUS thing but funnily enough, most of you seem to be okay with that). --"Aw Lordy! He looked at me meanly!" "Oh man, those guys went through in five minutes. Why do we have to wait for ten minutes! Why does everything happen to us! Why, God why?" Seriously, you lot make it sound like you were tortured physically when visiting your former countries. --Your place of birth is a indisputable fact. Just another identification parameter. It has nothing to do with you how you feel. "Oh, I don't feel Hungarian." Well, my date of birth may say 1960 but I don't feel 50 -- I'll always be eighteen till I die. So no, you're not "reborn," Bogota, Colombia doesn't become New York, NY. No matter how spiritually you feel like you're born again. So going by that line of reasoning, they should put your date of naturalization in place of your date of birth? Seriously? --Have you ANY idea how most tourists are treated at US POEs? --I'm not sure why my citizenship or lack of USC should be a factor. Would it carry more weight if my USC husband said these things? We're arguing logically, most of you are taking it far too emotionally. Edited by sachinky, 11 March 2010 - 03:31 AM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-11 03:27:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	This was the very first point I made: most of you need to find a political theory book and open the chapter on citizenship. Reiterating once again, Colombia could give a damn what your wife said or did during her oath of allegiance. In their eyes, she is still a Colombian citizen and has to follow those laws if she wants to visit her family. Simple as that. Clearly they do consider her as a citizen, otherwise they wouldn't offer her a passport. Countries do claim you -- some won't even let you give up your citizenship. The U.S. government is not making unreasonable demands on your wife. She, just like every other USC, must have their place of birth mentioned on the passport. U.S. citizenship can only be lost through formal renouncement in front of a consular officer. Or if you bear arms against the U.S. Or if it is found that the US citizenship was acquired by means of fraud. Plenty of my friends hold American passports (born in U.S.) and Spanish/Italian passport (parents from Italy/Spain) so yes, that is absolutely no problem at all. I never meant to say that naturalized citizens were inferior in any way to natural born citizens. I feel like some of you took my remarks to mean as such. But they ARE different. The same rules don't apply. It's not about being better or worse or fair or unfair. It's just the way it is. The sooner you wrap your head around and stop insisting that unless it's the same and equal, it MUST be discrimination, the better it is. It amuses me that some of you think that ALL US passports will be overhauled and inserted with expensive chips just so you/your spouses are not inconvenienced for a few minutes or don't have to put up with pissy remarks from immigration officials of another country. Of course, now that you're all USCs, I guess it is your God-given right to rage and rant against the U.S. government. Edited by sachinky, 10 March 2010 - 02:47 AM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-10 02:44:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	Ok, you didn't answer my previous questions but that's fine. We'll let that go for the purposes of keeping this discussion simple. I fail to understand how having the place of birth listed on the U.S. passport a direct contradication to the oath you take in order to become a USC. You might swear allegiance solely to the U.S. but just because you become a USC through naturalization (again, different from natural-born) your place of birth doesn't change from Cairo, Egypt to Kent, OH. Neither does your date of birth change to your date of naturalization, no matter how spiritually you feel like you were "reborn." Your place of birth and date of birth are incontrovertible FACTS that will remain with you, for life, no matter how much you dislike it or it inconveniences you. Again, the demands on your wife are being made by the Colombian government, not the U.S. They are not the ones asking her to maintain a Colombian passport -- the U.S. government in fact treats her like any other citizen, who ALSO have to have the place of birth listed on their respective passports. As of now, I've seen Romania and Colombia listed as problem countries, and the latter is clearly making unreasonable demands. I'm willing to bet, however, that most other naturalized USCs have no trouble travelling to the country of their birth. In most other countries of the world, a U.S. passport will most likely guarantee you special preference. Naturalized USCs pass through Indian immigration with no problem--they are not forced to take an Indian passport or produce any Indian government issued ID. Yes, your wife is a USC, with all the rights and privileges that come with it but as a naturalized citizen, she is subject to a different procedure (naturalization process) than you (your mother giving birth to you) and exempt from the post of the POTUS, unlike you.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-09 08:16:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	Sachinky, I find your arguments to be loaded with assumptions, ridiculous, and absurb, the subject is the DOS putting a persons place of birth on their passport. And you yet have to provide any logical reason for justifying this procedure. A person applying for USC has taken an oath to be allegiant to this country, and to serve it and defend it, even in time of war, pay taxes and comparing a person to one that is a natural born citizen being more allegiant to this country is ludicrous. Thousands of natural born citizens left this country to avoid being drafted during the Viet Nam war. Your arguments do not carry any weight. Speaking of taking an oath, at the ripe old age of 18 and being drafted, was forced to take an oath to defend this country, if I didn't as well as others, would have been tossed in jail. My wife and others have freely taken an oath to serve this country. If a person natural born or naturalized refuses to serve their country, it doesn't make any difference, either will have to face the consequences, but that will be dealt with at that time if this ever occurs. In my wife's situation, all we want to do is to visit her family once a year, she is no longer allegiant to Colombia, she is a USC! But because her place of birth is placed by our DOS on her US passport, Colombia is putting a claim on her and we are forced to comply with their laws so she can visit her family. At great expense, we had to update her Colombian ID and now wait up to a year to get her new ID. Then make a long trip to Chicago to force her to get a Colombian passport. I think it's fair and reasonable for me to ask, why? If Colombia wanted us to get a visa, both her and I, to visit their country, that is their option. We will have to get that visa. Which of my arguments do you find to be ridiculous and absurd? I conceded that black to white argument was silly, I was just trying to draw an analogy. What have I assumed? The argument regarding allegiance and sovereignty is often made by political science experts so really, this is not my argument at all and I wouldn't dream of taking credit for it (if you were referring to the POTUS argument). It has its roots in the U.S. Constitution and if you have a problem with that, you're going to have to take it up with the Supreme Court. So, let me ask you: why aren't naturalized USC allowed to run for POTUS since acccording to you, they are the same and equal and are in fact, more deserving than the draft dodgers since they have voluntarily taken the oath? Why do I have to justify anything? There really is no logical justification to putting anything on a passport apart from a picture to show that the person in possession of the passport is really you. However, all these things are parameters of identification. So what great justification do you have for putting someone's date of birth on a passport? Why is that necessary at all? The place of birth, like everything else, is just another category. I don't know if "parent's name/spouse's name" is listed on a US passport, but it is on Indian passports. What's the use of listing that? What if your father is a terrorist but you have absolutely nothing to do with him. (Similar argument to what you guys are making--I have given up my former citizenship, so what use is that place of birth? If you have renounced ties with your father, does that change the fact that, he is, in fact your father? Should we remove that as well, since most likely said individual is going to face discrimination and be inconvenienced due to the fact that his father's name is listed?) Oh man, another absurd argument, right? Passports of different countries use different categories, some explicitly state physical features, some require permanent address. You can rage and rant all you want, it's not gonna change. Again, these demands on your wife are being made by the Colombian government, not the U.S. government. To the U.S. government, she is just a USC, they are not the ones asking her to maintain a Colombian passport. Maybe you should be raging and ranting against them, instead. Like I said, I don't see U.S. passports being overhauled just because a few former Colombian citizens are being inconvenienced. To reiterate, my original and only issue was this notion that was mentioned in the first couple of pages that somehow mentioning this "place of birth" on a US passport is tantamount to discrimination by the U.S. government against its naturalized citizens. It's not. No matter how you spin it. Edited by sachinky, 09 March 2010 - 07:13 AM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-09 07:10:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	"That's like..your opinion, man. I am speaking as a USC that was born overseas. Were you born overseas too? If not, then it's our issue to deal with. If it wasn't for people like me and Nick's wife and And and others, you wouldn't have all the rights and protection you have in this country. ACLU was formed exactly for issues like that to be dealt with." Really, zia? Care to elaborate on this point? Now using my silly black to white analogy. Maybe I should've explained it better -- You're born as a black person (in one country). Through some surgery you become white (a citizen of another country). For whatever reason that may be--you think they are accorded more respect (U.S. passport) or you are married to a white person (American spouse) or it makes life just a little more convenient for you. Or you would like to become a bonafide member and participate fully and integrate into this new culture. Whatever, pick one. Now when you go back to your old neighborhood (former country) you face some talk about "selling out" and such (ill-treatment/discrimination). Now: whose fault is this? Yours for going through the process (the person who undergoes naturalization)? Your doctor's for performing the surgery on you (the U.S. government who grants you the privilege)? Or your former neighbors for discriminating against you because of your skin color (immigration officials in your former country)? Of course, I thought the answer was quite clear that it is the fault of your former neighbors for discriminating against you based on your skin color. But since you seem to think it is the person who went through procedure is responsible for his fate, then I'd have to say then that's the "fault" of the person who naturalized as well. You were a Romanian who became an American after going through a process encompassing many years and many dollars. You are now entitled to the perks that come with being an American citizen (for example, visiting several countries without any visa). Unfortunately, being ill treated at the Romanian border is also a part of the package now because they think you sold out in someway or are jealous of you, or whatever. You gotta take the bad with the good. I still don't see how the "doctor" is reponsible in any way. Edited by sachinky, 09 March 2010 - 04:26 AM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-09 04:23:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	Ok, I know I said I'd be gone but this is an interesting discussion so I'm going to overstay my welcome. Just to clarify: I'm the non-USC spouse in the picture so I have no personal stake in this whatsoever. I'm an Indian citizen now and will be at least for the next three years. We'll see how we feel after 3 years. However, my citizenship should not be a factor in this discussion. Also, I actually think the chip idea is a good solution to the "problem" posed here. I have no issue with that -- of course I don't think a couple of well worded petitions with a couple of signatures is going to change anything--but hey, that's my cynical opinion! You're all most welcome to send those in and good luck. I admire idealists. I suspect you're not going to find too many takers for this--so far, I've only seen Colombia and Romania mentioned as problem countries. I don't see U.S. passports being overhauled just because a few citizens are inconvenienced at the immigration line in a few countries. As I mentioned for India, and I'm willing to bet it is true for MANY countries, that a U.S. passport actually gets you better service/special treatment. My original and only issue was this notion that was mentioned in the first couple of pages that somehow mentioning this "place of birth" on a US passport is tantamount to discrimination by the U.S. government against its naturalized citizens. It's not. No matter how you spin it. Or that somehow naturalized citizens are as good as / or even better than the natural born citizens. Simple point in question: the POTUS. Naturalized citizens cannot run for POTUS. Why not? Because it is believed and expressed in several political and philosophical theories of citizenship that naturalized citizens do NOT feel the same allegiance towards the U.S.A as a natural born citizen does and does not have the same patriotic fervor that comes being born on the soil of a certain country. If you have a problem with this, then that's fine. Now you can take the matter up with the Supreme Court. If not, then you're accepting that this is true. Naturalization is not a right, as some have said they feel, it is a privilege that is earned via $, time, and meeting certain criteria. It's not the same as being born in the U.S. I'd think this is quite obvious. Arguments of fairness and equality don't hold when it's not a guaranteed right. Edited by sachinky, 09 March 2010 - 04:05 AM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-09 04:04:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	My last two cents on this thread and then I'm outta here: --If it was a case that ONLY naturalized USCs had to have "place of birth" listed on their passports, then yes, I'd agree with you that this was a case of discrimination but it's not. All USCs are required to have that whether it's Ithaca, New York or Calcutta, India. How you're treated in other countries as a result of that information being listed is not the fault of the U.S. government but the immigration officials of the other country. --Also remember: Even a natural-born USC might have another birth place, for example, Cairo, Egypt, listed if his parent(s) is/are USC(s) and the mother happened to give birth in Egypt. He is still a natural born USCs by virtue of his parentage. --Okay, time for a silly analogy: You're born as a black person. Through some surgery you become white. Now when you go back to your old neighborhood you face some talk about "selling out" and such. Now: whose fault is this? Yours for going through the process? Your doctor's for performing the surgery on you? Or your former neighbors for discriminating against you because of your skin color? --Some of you would be well served to open a political science textbook on the theories of citizenship. --Any country can place any condition they want on the entry and exit of tourists into that country, especially former citizens. NickD's wife is being practically forced to get a passport of her former country by her former country in order to enter/exit Columbia. Clearly, they do still consider her to be a citizen, otherwise why would they offer her a passport? Now how is any of this supposed to be a problem of the U.S. since they are not the one making these demands? --Your place of birth along with your date of birth is one of the most basic things that are listed on a passport. Good luck with writing to the U.S. Congress, DOS and ACLU and having that omitted. Like they have nothing better to do. God, by the way you lot are whining, you'd think you were being physically tortured by the immigration officials in your former country -- at the most you have to endure some extra questions or wait a couple of more minutes. Big effin' deal, really. Passports of most countries have "place of birth" listed. You're not going to get them to change that on the US passport just because a few citizens are inconvenienced for a few minutes at the border of their former country. Maybe this will make you realize how most tourists are harassed at the U.S. POEs. --Next thing you'll want is for the date of birth to be omitted as well--they discriminate against us Geminis! Ok, just kidding! Edited by sachinky, 08 March 2010 - 03:05 AM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-08 03:04:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	We just got back from Colombia to visit my wife's family, I sure didn't have problems neither entering or leaving but my wife sure did. I am a natural born USC, wife is a naturalized citizen of the USA. Going in as long as that line was, took her a full ten minutes to explain, her place of birth on her US passport, she could not apply for a Colombian passport at the consulate in Chicago because her Colombian ID was already over thirty years old. Was told she had to go to Colombia to renew that first, that she tried to explain to the immigration guy at the POE. It's a catch 22 position they put you in, like you can't get into the country unless you have a Colombian passport, but can't get one until you enter the country to update your Colombian ID. He finally let her in. Was a mess for us chasing all over Bogota, even though we brought all of her original records with us, they wanted new ones meaning we had to go to a notary, the documents were identical to the ones we brought in, but were a couple of hundred bucks poorer in the process. She was told it would take six months to a year to ger her ID even though all of her papers were in order. Kind of reminded me, of what would happen to you here if you lost your green card. Leaving Colombia was just as bad for her as they claimed she again needed that Colombian passport to leave the country, again a lot of explaining to do, did show the application for her new ID, thankfully, they let her leave. We have no intentions of moving to Colombia, just want to visit her family. Not in a position to blame the Colombian government nor the USA government for putting her place of birth on her US passport. But can only say, since they do put her place of birth on her US passport, she is NOT a USC just like me. Sorry to hear about your troubles. But, NickD, she is NOT a USC just like you. Quite obviously. You did nothing on your part. You were born and that was it. She had to go through an extensive process to become one that took years, effort and money. Surely, that IS a difference right there. Now, as a USC if she voices her grievances against the Colombian government for making her jump through extra hoops, that's fine. But to blame the US government or somehow think it is responsible just because they issued her an identity document doesn't make sense to me. And another point to consider: When you become a USC you renounce all your ties to your former country. To the U.S. government, you're only a USC. But this doesn't mean that your former country gives you up totally either, just because you gave it up. In this case, maybe the Colombian government still feels like it retains some rights over your wife as a former Colombian citizen and can place certain conditions on her entering and leaving the country? I know plenty of naturalized American citizens (Indians) who visit India often and have NO trouble through immigration. In fact, they seem to get special preference or treatment just because of their US passport. So this would seem to be a problem with certain countries only. I don't see how the U.S. government is responsible for how border officials of another country behave.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-07 08:16:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	Sachinky-Well..why can't we be "stateless", as apposed to having a birth coutnry listed on a passport? Again, we do not choose where we are born, but we can choose where we are naturalized. So should I leave my nationality up to my parents? Heck no! I choose to be in the USA, as an adult..I am not asking for a favour....I am choosing what I believe is a right, as an adult! I am not choosing what I believe was a right as a minor! One can make decisions as an adult, but not as a minor.....I'm just claiming what is my RIGHT as an adult, that's all.... But, Ant, you did ask for permission to become a citizen of the U.S through the process of naturalization. That IS asking for a favor or a privilege which is granted at the discretion of the U.S. government. You could have just as easily been denied too. You were not automatically entitled to it neither could you demand it simply because it is NOT a right. Just like I can't move to France tomorrow and demand to be a French citizen no matter how much I love France or think it is awesome! While your right to a nationality is secured under the U.N. Charter, nowhere is the RIGHT to CHOOSE your nationality guaranteed. Edited by sachinky, 07 March 2010 - 08:10 AM.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-07 08:09:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	I still don't see this as the U.S. government "discriminating" against it's own citizens. While it may be true that naturalized USCs face some sort of "discrimination" while visiting their former country, I don't see how the U.S. government is supposed to be responsible for that.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-03-05 10:51:00
US Citizenship General Discussion	Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....	"The UN has repeatedly stated that everyone has a right to a nationality; i.e., nobody should be "stateless". However, they have never implied in any way that anyone has a right to choose their nationality. The nationality which you have a right to is established at birth, either by parentage or by location of birth. If you want to change your de-facto nationality, then you are asking another nation for a PRIVILEGE. When you realize that what you are asking for is a favor from the government of a nation, and not a right of any kind, then most of your arguments about fairness and equality evaporate." I thought this quote by Jim in another thread summed up my feelings rather eloquently.	sachinky	Female	India	2010-02-26 12:16:00