biggish data

I just wanted to say, Tany, that I really admire your attitude through all of this! It's not something seen around here very often.

aww thank you Jenn! Don't get me wrong, it sucks, and its hard, but, what good is being irrational gonna do?? Ouadia and I know what we have, and we know our day will come, and we know the consulate is wrong about us. But, what can we do, but follow the law, and be respectful of what these CO's have on their plates. I can't imagine that the USCIS will deny us, after approving 2 of our petitions, and I think in the end, our relationship will be validated, then we won't have to prove ourselves to anyone anymore!

And even though I would rather have the hubby here, I get to go to morocco again in a couple of months! He'll get here, just for some reason, God says our time isn't now...

I might ask them what their position is on "front-loading" a petition - including evidence of a relationship beyond what is required by USCIS in order to give the consulate some prelimnary evidence up front.

Chat is finished

but that would have been another great question

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 10:10:00

tonia: (11:02) Why would a consular officer want to see just chat log records, as opposed to phone records?

Paul, Consular Officer: (11:02) Chat records let us see the kind of communication a couple has. For example, if the logs only say ''hi, how are you?'' ''I love you soooooo much,'' etc. and do not talk about normal, daily life, it makes a difference. With phone records we are also not 100% sure to whom the phone numbers belong. That being said, we look at both types of records.
tonia (Submitted question): (11:02) Thank you!!!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 10:03:00

KKB: (10:52) You mentioned above that the beneficiary is informed at the time of interview, but in cases of marriage fraud, etc if the petitioner can be given specific information that the consulate has uncovered about fraud, it seems that would be helpful if they heard directly from the consulate what has been uncovered that denotes fraud.

Paul, Consular Officer: (10:52) In our experience, even when we give specific reasons, the petitioner disagrees with our judgment and often gets belligerent and defensive. Certainly some of this kind of reaction is normal. I know that if someone told me that the relationship with my wife was not real that I would disagree and want to respond accordingly. However, once the decision has been made to return a case, there is typically very little that will change that outcome. Given the fact that a petitioner will have an ample opportunity to answer all of the questions raised from the interview when responding to the notice of intent to revoke, we do not find it productive to go into long discussions for each case.

This chat is AMAZING.

OMG. For all the ####### we hear about Casablanca, they have been so good with my questions, beyond helpful... WOW.

And no minimum income requirement for the I-134??? WHAT?! I DON'T NEED A CO-SPONSOR?!! As long as I have paid taxes, I'm good?! ?!?!?!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!

I mean, this chat has flooded me with relief. We just do our best and God will provide the rest.

WOW. I am SO GLAD I went!

(and the celibacy certificate requirement made me giggle, for real.)

(That isn't to diminish the pain of people who have been treated poorly by them).

I agree Kristen....my hubby (fiance then) was treated poorly last year, and in my letter sent with my cr1, I did state that I hoped my husband could walk out of the consulate with his dignity in tact. This interview, they treated him very good, even though the decision was still a denial. And I do appreciate that they treated him like a human being this time! And really, some great info was given to us!

Edited by tany1157, 06 April 2011 - 09:57 AM.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 09:55:00

I'm done with my questions, but there is still some more time. Any other questions anyone wants asked?

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 09:48:00

tonia (privately): (10:43) I understand. If USCIS revokes the petition, then the law states that fraud was founded, and the beneficiary can no longer be petitioned in the future.

Paul, Consular Officer (privately): (10:43) exactly

tonia (Submitted question): (10:43) Thank you sir!

It sounds like they count, "we are not approving because we don't think the relationship is genuine" counts as explaining the reason for the denial. I don't believe they get into WHY they don't think the relationship is genuine.

That's correct. But they won't go into further details

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 09:45:00

tonia: (10:39) If there is no law preventing a person from getting a visa to the US, what are the odds of being denied a visa a third time?

Paul, Consular Officer: (10:39) Well, there are certainly various laws preventing people from receiving visas. For example, section 204© of the Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA) says that if marriage fraud was confirmed by a competent authority (like an immigration judge or a petition revoked by USCIS), the beneficiary is ineligible for any future petition-based visas. In other words, if a CR-1 was revoked because of fraud, a new petition for the same beneficiary would be refused under INA section 204© as they can never be the beneficiary of any future petition-based visas. It’s hard to say what the chances are of visas being issued a third time around. In general terms, it is rare, but it does happen. For example, if we recommended a K-1 visa for revocation, and then the CR-1 visa for revocation, which was subsequently reaffirmed, we would ordinarily issue the visa. However, each case is unique, and only a new interview cand determine the outcome.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 09:41:00

tonia: (10:34) Just for my own knowlege of your jobs, what training do consular officers go through to detect fraud? Also, why the variances in interview times? First interview was over an hour, while second interview was 15 minutes. Thank you for your time!!

Paul, Consular Officer: (10:34) Before being assigned overseas, consular officers take an intensive multi-week course on U.S. Immigration law. In addition there are a variety of fraud classes both in classroom and online settings that officers take. We have a robust internal training program and officers share insights about other cases with each other. Because each interview is individually customized, the times can vary grately. For example, a few days ago we interviewed a couple that had been married for 50 years and had several grown children and grandchildren. It was very apparent that their relationship is legitimate and we did not need to conduct a long interview. Alternatively, we have other cases that require more time to ask more in-depth questions.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 09:36:00

I very much appreciate you answering my any questions! But, both interviews, my (then) fiance, and (now) husband was told they couldn't tell him the reasons. It is just all very confusing. We are all human, and while I respect your positions, do you admit there are times you may be wrong?

Paul, Consular Officer (privately): (10:30) We certainly tell applicants when they are not approved the reasons why. We are humans, and it is certainly possible that we make mistakes. That being said, we try to be as professional as possible and with experience figure out which relationships are real and which are just for immigration purposes.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 09:33:00

Great. Keep us posted. Did time change in Morocco happen this weekend? I thought it was only 2:15ish there now. Husband mentioned time change coming up, but I didn't realize it was this past weekend.

I would also ask, not to put them on the defensive, but because I'm genuinely interested, what training they get specifically to detect fraud. And, why there seems to be so much difference between some interviews - 5 minutes vs. 2 hours.

yes, time change happened a few days ago!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 09:30:00

tonia: (10:19) How come the reasons for a visa denial are kept secret?

Liz, U.S. Consulate: (10:19) Hi, Tonia. The reasons for visa denial are not secret at all. When a visa is denied, we explain to the applicant in person why they were denied. We also give them a letter explaining the denial.

Liz, U.S. Consulate: (10:20) For non-immigrant visas, the most common denial is called Section 214(b). It means that the consul was not convinced the person planned to return to Morocco after a short trip.

Liz, U.S. Consulate: (10:20) Others are denied because of past immigration violations, criminal histories, medical issues, etc.

tonia: (10:23) I understand you can't answer about an individual case, but, my husbands interview went very well, and he was still denied. What could some of the reasons be behind a denial with a good interview?

Paul, Consular Officer: (10:23) Well, perhaps your husband’s definition of a good interview differs from that of the consular officer. Basically, we send back cases if we believe the beneficiary is only in a relationship to get a visa. For example, if he cannot talk about your work, education, family, interests, time growing up, etc. We can only assume that he is only interested in getting a visa. At the same time, if someone knows too much information, we suspect that the have just memorized lots of facts and don’t really have a connection with the person. For example, in one of my cases the beneficiary could name the date in 1985 that the petitioner started working at a certain job and knew how much she earned per hour. I have to be honest, I have no idea about jobs my wife held 20 years ago, much less how much money she was making. We then ask follow up questions like “why did she decide to leave that job?” or “what did she enjoy about her work?” and the beneficiary typically cannot further contextualize the response. It is one thing to memorize a bunch of facts, but it is totally another thing to actually care enough about someone to understand their life and what was important to them.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 09:25:00

Just asked that question, see what they say. I asked what would make them deny a case twice. Basically said if the interview goes poorly, and they can't answer basic questions, then they will deny it. So I just asked what if the interview went very well. I also asked why they like to keep the reasons for a denial a secret. Lets see what they say about that.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 09:17:00

I am praying for you.

Thank you

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-10 19:59:00

I am hoping we aren't the genuine couple who never makes it together in the USA....

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-10 19:17:00

you should send him a pic of this to stop that nonsense.
not safe to look at while eating, contemplating food, or even hours after eating.

ok, completely just ignored your warning, and clicked while eating :dead:

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-03-15 12:03:00

She's only 20 years old, poor thing....

Edited by tany1157, 02 March 2011 - 09:04 PM.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-03-02 21:02:00

read that and tell me if u want me to conutny or to stop

I speak internet Moroccan and I don't think this is a letter. I think its some kind of chain of thought or prose to his internet love and he is saying I am trying to move closer to her but her heart is so broken and she is holding his picture

And the end says to be continued.

The man who made her cry like this is probably Moroccan too and next time I suggest you do not use reverso to write a letter.

PS.. this kind of stuff works with Americans so lay it on thicker honey... She will definitely go for it

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-05 21:42:00

Wow...not having enough chat sessions seems an extreme reason for a denial. Real sorry to hear that. It sounds like the interview officer isn't up on modern times of people meeting on the internet and forming a long distance relationship! It is so hard to prove a bona-fide marriage when you live in different countries...seems like common sense to me. Don't give up on getting another interview. I'm a bit worried now myself..with the invention of Skype & cheap international calling plans who prefers to text/chat anymore!!??

Well, there is probably something else they see that we don't know yet....we are just waiting for the USCIS to get it back. Then we can go about defending our relationship again! :wacko:

LOL Good luck to you

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-19 16:03:00

They did look at photos of us. He also had my car insurance policy, showing he was on it. Had our wedding photos, and other random photos of our time together. He had flight stubs, and a copy of my passport to show I had just been there in january. He had house phone and cell phone/text records. He had a copy of his Icall account to show the number we bought for our use. Had the wedding invite for my sisters wedding. I think that was it...but she only wanted to see chat logs and pics.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-07 09:07:00

We brought phone records and text records. They didn't want those, they only wanted to see chat. We sent over 800 pages of chat with our k1, and that seemed to be a problem with the C0...if you search the mena forum around january 2010, you can find my thread about our first denial, and see what happened then. C0 asked specifically about chat logs. Hubby said we didn't have them. She then asked again, "are you sure you don't have any at home? Because you can bring them in". Hubby realizes in hindsight he should have said YES!! And let me gather what chat we do have to give to the consulate. He didn't realize how big a deal this would be. But its too late now. I can only hope to help others through our experience.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-07 07:15:00

Just my advice to anybody going for interviews, bring chat logs...they apparently, IN SOME CASES, want to see the context of the communication between the couple....(I know this isn't for all, and some never get asked to see chat, some do. In our case, we believe it was the thing that put the CO on the side to deny)...see my posts in the "chat with the casa consulate" thread regarding what the CO said about chat logs. I think we are the EXACT proof of why you need to know why you are denied the first time, so you can counter those flags at the second interview. Just getting married is never a "slam dunk." (we knew this, but took our chances anyways) Apparently, their issues with us weren't resolved 15 months after the first denial, even though we thought we knew what they needed to see, and me visiting morocco 2 more times. :wacko:

Let me tell you, the day of the denial, hubby and I were hysterical and irrational. Was horrendous. The next couple of days were ok, since we had a "plan" in place, to try to get him a second interview. Then the anger set in, and I was really not pleasant to be around the last few days. Today, I think the acceptance is sinking in, since the consulate has said the package has left for the US already, and my senator saying they won't make any more inquiries to the consulate because we need to wait for the file to get back to the US. Hubby is still in the angry phase. He is not ready to accept what has happened, and us being in these two different phases is not making for pleasant convo these past 2 days....but, he will soon accept it, and we can move onto our next course of action.

I'm bummed our outcome has scared some of you guys....just be as prepared as you can be, and stay calm!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-04-06 19:37:00

Best wishes to you.

Thank you

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-05-23 16:41:00

Our congressman got a response from the USCIS saying it will take 180 days. We've been apart almost 3 years, what's another 6+ months?? I think I am now hoping to be together by MAYBE the beginning of 2012.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-05-23 13:19:00

Thanks everyone....I always appreciate the comments

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-05-18 16:43:00

We just received a letter from the USCIS stating they received our petition from the DOS to be reviewed. Anybody know about how long this review will typically take before we hear from them again? I know they say 120 days, but am asking people who have gone through this before. Thanks a bunch!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-05-14 14:50:00

how much month my wife can stay with me in morocco

Squeaky answered this question in one of your other threads.....if she is not a resident, she can only stay for 3 months. Look back to see what she said about it

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-06-12 20:25:00

What's in a NOID/NOIR

Mine did not ask for specific documents. They wrote on there what the CO said and we had to send evidence to the contrary.

Just make sure when you send your evidence, that you are sending enough so that you are not leaving any doubt. You only get the one chance. The other thing to remember is to watch for it. Mine did not show up on the USCIS website and we only had 30 days to respond from the day that USCIS sent it. It took 8 days to come in the mail, so it left us less than 3 weeks to do everything we needed to do and get the response back to them.

We had gathered some stuff, but we sent additional documents once we received it in the mail.

Thanks for taking the time to answer me

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-06-21 08:32:00

What's in a NOID/NOIR

I was wondering if anybody who has received an NOID/NOIR from USCIS would mind sharing what was asked from them for additional evidence. Thank you!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-06-19 21:06:00

oldies but goodies?

This thread made me smile. We are still in the process of trying to get the visa, never mind living together. But, with how our relationship has grown, I don't see it going anywhere but up...hoping to visit again this summer. We have been together almost 3 years now

Edited by tany1157, 07 June 2011 - 03:47 PM.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-06-07 15:46:00

oldies but goodies?

Class of '05 here too. 6 years of marriage this july

Just how I feel about those pics!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-06-07 15:43:00

oldies but goodies?

So AbuS saw me on VJ recently and was like, you still read that?? Oh wait, are we the longest married MENA couple?

Anyone here from 05 and before? Still hacking it through day by day and surviving?

AbuS and UmmS still married, going on 5 and 3/4 years here in the US (I feel like I'm 5 and have to specify how many months it is until my next birthday, cuz gosh darn it, every little bit is important!). Still residing in the Twin Cities. Still no kids. Still cat parents to the fabulous feline Squeaky.

AbuS frequently talks about going back to Egypt, forming a political party, and running for president. I'd just like to make it through the end of the year. I have several trials coming up, and it looks like I'll be working crazy long hours until January. Which means, alas, no hajj for us next year. But inshaAllah next year

Off topic, but just wanted to say you are very adorable! :luv:

Congrats on your ongoing relationship success!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-06-07 15:40:00

should i be happy ?

Your story has ABSOLUTELY made my day. I am very happy for you and your wife! (L)

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-06-30 15:08:00

QUOTE (anas_tracy_love @ Oct 16 2009, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (tany1157 @ Oct 16 2009, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (anas_tracy_love @ Oct 16 2009, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (tany1157 @ Oct 16 2009, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (anas_tracy_love @ Oct 16 2009, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tracy
From: The First State (now sadly in South Dakota...lol)
SO: Anas
SO from: Beni Mellal
Yes, I've been to Morocco....absolutely loved Beni...too much chaos in Casa...Safi was beautiful....I loved it....the people, the scenery, and the food!!!!
Nothing extra to add except....I miss my husband lots....and I miss Delaware, the ocean, fresh seafood, TREES, good weather...(LOL)

My fiance is from souk sebt, about 30 minutes outside of beni mellal. My SO took me there, and we have some beautiful pics of us at the castle....just gorgeous there!!! Welcome!!

yeah, i loved it there...my husband's family lives in the city but pretty close to the castle...did you get to visit ain assardoun?...very lovely too but i saw it in february when it was not as lush...

Unfortunatly, when I was there, there was a transportation strike going on...LOL so Ouadia wasn't able to take me exactly where he wanted to, but we did make it to beni mellal for a couple of hours one night, and transportation resumed the last weekend I was there, so he took me to Marrakech...so I did not see ain assardoun. It's nice to meet someone who has an SO near mine... my SO lives in the boonies

haha....was that earlier this year?...if so, i think i remember my hubby telling me about some traffic law that was passed and alot of people stopped driving....he made a joke about how everything stopped...lol....

It was in Morocco for the month of april this year...

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2009-10-17 15:21:00

QUOTE (anas_tracy_love @ Oct 16 2009, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (tany1157 @ Oct 16 2009, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (anas_tracy_love @ Oct 16 2009, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My fiance is from souk sebt, about 30 minutes outside of beni mellal. My SO took me there, and we have some beautiful pics of us at the castle....just gorgeous there!!! Welcome!!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2009-10-16 19:50:00

QUOTE (anas_tracy_love @ Oct 16 2009, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My fiance is from souk sebt, about 30 minutes outside of beni mellal. My SO took me there, and we have some beautiful pics of us at the castle....just gorgeous there!!! Welcome!!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2009-10-16 19:29:00

QUOTE (Kenza @ Aug 19 2009, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Marhaba Tonia! Is your SO from Rabat? I've never heard of Souk Sebt...

souk sebt is about 30 minutes outside of beni mellal, the smallest town I have ever seen!! LOL He also went to school in Mekness. The county name is tadla azilal, where he lives, not for mekness. Hope this helps...

QUOTE (Jenn! @ Aug 19 2009, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (tany1157 @ Aug 19 2009, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Name: Tonia
Were you're from: Bedford, NH
SO's name: Ouadia
Where they are from in Morocco: Souk Sebt
Anything else you want to add: My baby is still over there, we just sent our package out, and I haven't seen him since the end of april!!! It is so hard, but we keep on keeping on!

You're the first VJ member I've come across whose SO is also named Ouadia.

My hubby goes by Wadi here.

OMG me too, when I'm around his family, they all call him Ouadia, but I call him Ouadie (wadi), hummmm my Ouadie

I miss my baby so much!!

Edited by tany1157, 19 August 2009 - 11:09 AM.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2009-08-19 11:07:00

QUOTE (Leyla @ Apr 17 2009, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HEY MENA Family!

I thought we should have a MENA Morocco thread

Let's fill in the info:

Name:
Where you're from:
SO's name:
Where they are from in Morocco:
Anything else you want to add:

Here goes!
Name: Michelle
Where you're from: Delaware, OH
SO's name: Tarik
Where they are from in Morocco: Casablanca
Anything else you want to add: Not really. I'm sure something will come up in this thread

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2009-08-19 10:55:00

Combating the "yo mama don't live here" issue

I was a mother to my first husband, and it led to our downfall. I am a WIFE, NOT a mother, and I made that very clear from the beginning with my current husband. He is a grown man, not a child. Thankfully, when I do get in "mom mode" with him, he gets insulted, and says not to speak to him like he is my child. He is absolutely right, and I love him for that....I am also trying to raise my son to be a man, not a man-child. Just had to pipe in for that comment :whistle:

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-08-23 09:06:00

Combating the "yo mama don't live here" issue

I can't give you any advice with my current marriage, as the hubby is still in Morocco, but I will give some insight based on my first marriage. That man did NOTHING around the house. I had to tell him every single time what to do, and what annoyed me so much was that he was a GROWN MAN, and I thought he should be capable of seeing dirty dishes in the sink, and realizing they needed to be cleaned. In the end, I felt like his mom. We had many things contribute to the downfall of our marriage, this was only a small problem in the scheme of things. When he did try to do stuff, I would go around after work, and "fix" what he didn't do right. This eventually made him feel like "why bother." I have thankfully learned a lot about relationships thanks to the downfall of my first marriage.

I am pretty up front, and speak my mind, whether people like it or not. When I first went to visit Ouadie, I watched what his mother did. I felt so uncomfortable, because she would pick up after me, in the bedroom! I mean, my dirty laundry, whatever I had out of place, it was weird. Nobody has done that for me in years. But I made for damn sure to tell Ouadie, all the time, that I will NEVER do what his mother does. I will NOT pick up your dirty underwear, or serve your lunch to you in your room. It just won't happen. I have been a hard working girl since the day I was legally able to start working, and I expect my husband to be able to feed himself, and at least put his dirty clothes in a basket. Now, my husband works in Morocco, and has been away to college, so he is capable of cooking, and doing laundry. We have discussed at great lengths what we "plan" for our household, but know that there will probably be much tweeking when we finally live together. He has told me up front that he does not want to do laundry, he just doesn't want to have to worry about it. I told him I wouldn't mind doing all the laundry, as long as he picks up the slack somewhere else. Thankfully he knows how to cook, so he will be able to cook a couple times a week(he doesn't want to cook full time). I'm thrilled I have a man who knows how to cook, as my ex didn't really have a clue. I have also told him I would like him to do the bulk of the yard work (snow blowing the driveway, mowing the lawn). I grew up in a house where dad worried about the pool, and yard work, and mom did cooking and housework. On paper, we have a good plan set up, but we know things will be much different once we settle in together. One thing I know is Ouadie feels like the man should be financially supporting the family, so all I ever hear him say is, "I will work a ###### job if that is all I can get, while I look for work in my field" He is actually using this shitty time apart to study more, so he will have more skills when he gets here.

To end a long story, what I learned is there should be straight lines of communication. I need to stop assuming that my husband should be able to read my mind, and I should be clear on what I am expecting, and be clear on what he is expecting. Then we should make lists, and actually follow them. Also, making things comfy for him will make it harder for him to have the motivation to actually want to leave the house. But, he can't work until you guys AOS, so in my house, I would prob cut the cable. I would live on watching movies for a while. Once step at a time. I don't have any doubts that he loves you, he just needs some encouragement. Hopefully, as time goes on, he will get off his behind because he will realize it makes for a happier wifey!!

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-06-30 16:02:00

denied at casablanca

Not trying to embarrass you.
Time has definitely NOT flown by for me! I hate this waiting and wondering and hoping, but not knowing!! Hate it!! And I want my husband with me NOW. And EVERDAY. I have, of course, almost zero patience left and it has been this way for me for a while. All my whining though hasn't sped it up. I just try to occupy myself. I am counting the days now until my next trip. I have two between now and Christmas and one booked for March. I am hoping he is here before the March trip rolls around, though. I guess we will see.
Tany, what was your hubby's second interview like? I'm sure they knew they had denied him once already, so I'm kinda curious of what my man might be up against the 2nd time around. What kind of stuff did they ask the second time? Were they mean to him?

I apologize for taking so long to get back to you. His second interview seemed to go very well. He was quite shocked when they said "denied" as he thought almost 100 percent they would say "approved"

http://www.visajourn...-at-casablanca/ This is the beginning of this thread, you can find a more detailed report of the interview. They were a lot more respectful at this interview than at the first one.

tany1157

Female

Morocco

2011-09-20 06:48:00