ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
US Citizenship General DiscussionHow long is one without U.S. passport or green card
QUOTE (timeasterday @ Dec 22 2007, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is no sort of travel authorization issued at that time. You are given a certificate of naturalization, nothing else. At that point you are like any other US citizen without a passport. You have to go through the typical application process by applying in person at any designated passport acceptance location (see here: http://travel.state....port_1738.html).

No documents will be sent to you to apply for the passport - you need to do this in person. Your local post office is probably the best place to go. If you need one in a hurry they can expedite for extra $$.

Hope that helps!


That sounds good - so it's a straight swap at the ceremony - they take the green card and give you a certificate and there is no gap...

Phew - well I know it took my wife 3 weeks or so to renew her U.S> passport so a new one might take a little bit longer ?
With the expedited service I should only be unable to travel for a month or so ?
Captain OatesMaleEngland2007-12-22 12:34:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionHow long is one without U.S. passport or green card
Been in the country 7 weeks and waiting for my GC but researching what happens at naturalization time.. when I apply in 2 years and 6.5 months...

As I understand it, one goes for an interview and they ask about the benefits of the illegal armed overthrow of the lawful British colonial government in 1776 and the American invasion of England at Whitehaven on 23rd April 1778 where Britain's WMD's were spiked.

Then eventually there is the swearing in ceremony a few months later and they take one's GC at that time.

Do they give a travel document authorization of some description at that time ?

Do they issue a naturalization certificate at that time ?

How long before I get the documents to apply for a U.S. passport ?

I always fear not being able to travel as my mother is very old and I need to always be able to travel at a few hours notice

It's just me researching but the reply will help others who are closer to naturalization I am sure

alan
Captain OatesMaleEngland2007-12-22 12:14:00
US Citizenship General Discussiontax papers for naturalization process
QUOTE (motu @ Mar 29 2009, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (saywhat @ Mar 29 2009, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Am I reading your signature timeline wrongly as I reading that your citizenship interview is May 2009 ?


I became a citizen earlier - My wife's citizenship interview is on May 5th. The timelines are hers not mine.
Also, I have been a Tax Administrator for 20+ years and I do not see a need for certified copies for anything - buying homes I never supplied one, nor for my own citizenship. Do what makes you comfortable - but before it's deemed a 'requirement' I will like to know where exactly it says so - further, I have not had a problem in my citizenship or my wife's process to-date; so I doubt that its a requirement. Good Luck


right I understand now...

Yes I am a belt and braces (suspenders) man myself so i will probably take the IRS extract and my full copy too...
They have switched the requirements on me so much I just don't trust em not to switch em again so I will go loaded down with papers
They probably wont let me in coz I am a security hazard with a pack like that !

When I went for my GC interview at the London Embassy they said - you don't have an interview today - how did you get past the guards and get in here ? I said - well I showed em this letter which says I do have an interview today - it still took 15 minutes while they conferred with each other and their boss and then relented and decided to interview me

They are absolute nit wits when it comes to admin so I will go with everything just in case





Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-03-29 14:18:00
US Citizenship General Discussiontax papers for naturalization process
QUOTE (motu @ Mar 29 2009, 06:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Tini27 @ Mar 28 2009, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (motu @ Mar 28 2009, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Tini27 @ Mar 27 2009, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They have to be from the IRS. They cannot be copies of what you sent. Also, there are other optons: copies and certified copies which you have t pay for so be sure you are ordering the right ones. Also, be sure to have the latest 3 years (including 2008). If you haven't yet filed for this year, wait until you do. Cheers!

Incorrect. They can be your copies. I use online tax-preparation services (Tax Act and Turbo tax) and just print out a copy for me and send a copy of that - I have done it for the K1, AOS, Removal and now for the citizenship - I never sent certified copies or IRS transcripts. My copies don't even have a signature (I file electronically). Never had a problem. Good Luck


Maybe you were lucky?? or your IO was trustful? I am not sure this is a rule though because I remember I was told at my last interview AOS that a copy of my tax papers did not actually mean I had filed since it hadn't gone through IRS yet. That's why the document checklist says: transcripts or certified copies. In any case, I'd advise going the safe way, you never know:)
)

I am also a naturalized citizen and yes - for my citizenship I just used the copies that I printed out (nothing official or certified). And try as I might, I see nowhere on N-400 or its instructions where it asks for 'official or certified tax returns'. I often either didn't have the time to order or couldn't find the number to order the transcripts or just plain forgot it - but in any case from my own case I learned that a certified copy was not needed and have not used it for my wife's K1, AOS, Removal or citizenship. Good Luck


Am I reading your signature timeline wrongly as I reading that your citizenship interview is May 2009 ?


Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-03-29 12:58:00
US Citizenship General Discussiontax papers for naturalization process
QUOTE (seakayaker @ Mar 29 2009, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone here tried to order the transcripts over the phone? I just got lost in the automated menu system... any hints as to how to find the transcripts section is greatly appreciated. (I called 1 800 829 1040).

Thanks!



This is the easiest way I reckon

Need a Copy of Your Tax Return Information?
http://www.irs.gov/i...=110571,00.html
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-03-29 11:02:00
US Citizenship General Discussiontax papers for naturalization process
QUOTE (motu @ Mar 28 2009, 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Tini27 @ Mar 27 2009, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They have to be from the IRS. They cannot be copies of what you sent. Also, there are other optons: copies and certified copies which you have t pay for so be sure you are ordering the right ones. Also, be sure to have the latest 3 years (including 2008). If you haven't yet filed for this year, wait until you do. Cheers!

Incorrect. They can be your copies. I use online tax-preparation services (Tax Act and Turbo tax) and just print out a copy for me and send a copy of that - I have done it for the K1, AOS, Removal and now for the citizenship - I never sent certified copies or IRS transcripts. My copies don't even have a signature (I file electronically). Never had a problem. Good Luck


Interesting - but as your interview is not until May 5 2009, are you sure it will work this time ?


Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-03-28 11:09:00
US Citizenship General Discussiontax papers for naturalization process
QUOTE (NickD @ Mar 28 2009, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I submitted four years of returns, IO commented on that in a negative way, you only need three. Since I do my own taxes, did bring along the originals with the IRS joint return labels pasted on them and all the W-2's and 1099's, I don't even send the originals to the IRS, just copies, no problems with the IRS. But did bring those originals along with us, no problems with that. We put our original signatures and dates on each copy that makes them legal.

IRS does have a toll free number to call for transcripts, 1-888 something, ha, would have to look up the last seven digits.


I will make a note of that too as I always get a return confirmation card when I mail my tax returns in


When I was on a police advanced driving course in 1969, they would actually fail you if you indicated before turning when there were no other cars around. They said it proved you were not aware of what traffic was around you and you wouldnt need to indicate if you were fully aware there was no other traffic.

I drove like that for decades, much to the annoyance of my passengers. Now I have reverted to indicating all the time as it costs nothing, and it's better to be sure, and everyone makes mistakes..
So same thing with this documentation - it costs nothing to take a lot more than is strictly necessary, so I will take everything I can think off

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-03-28 09:56:00
US Citizenship General Discussiontax papers for naturalization process
QUOTE (I Miss Her @ Mar 28 2009, 04:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (saywhat @ Mar 27 2009, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am still a year off so no rush !

But i like to get prepared in good time so I am trying to learn as much as poss in advance

I see people refer to 3 years tax returns being required at the interview ?

Is this the applicants copies of what they submitted or do they have to apply to the IRS for some sort of certified copy of their returns as received by the IRS ?

many thanks

Alan


It is better to have up to last five years of tax return (as applicable); even last three years are OK.

Need a Copy of Your Tax Return Information?
http://www.irs.gov/i...=110571,00.html


oh wow thank you it just keeps getting better and better.. Alan

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-03-27 22:11:00
US Citizenship General Discussiontax papers for naturalization process
QUOTE (Tini27 @ Mar 28 2009, 03:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (saywhat @ Mar 27 2009, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am still a year off so no rush !

But i like to get prepared in good time so I am trying to learn as much as poss in advance

I see people refer to 3 years tax returns being required at the interview ?

Is this the applicants copies of what they submitted or do they have to apply to the IRS for some sort of certified copy of their returns as received by the IRS ?

many thanks

Alan


Hey Alan, You can order them free of charge by calling the IRS.Their automated voice system takes care of everything and you get them in the mail within 2 weeks. Ask for tax return transcripts. They have to be from the IRS. They cannot be copies of what you sent. Also, there are other optons: copies and certified copies which you have t pay for so be sure you are ordering the right ones. Also, be sure to have the latest 3 years (including 2008). If you haven't yet filed for this year, wait until you do. Cheers!


yaberdabber that's great - So the transcripts will be fine - they just want to know you have filed and don't owe basically.
I will be filing in august time next year ! 2010 (I am in advance !)
so i will submit 2009/2008/2007 at that time excellent
My only proof of paying right now is the photo of the paid cheque on my bank statement so i wondered how you got proof
Now i know

Thanks v muchly sir !

All I have to do now is convince him that 'ee bye gum look sharp lad' is proper English

excellent

Alan











Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-03-27 22:09:00
US Citizenship General Discussiontax papers for naturalization process
I am still a year off so no rush !

But i like to get prepared in good time so I am trying to learn as much as poss in advance

I see people refer to 3 years tax returns being required at the interview ?

Is this the applicants copies of what they submitted or do they have to apply to the IRS for some sort of certified copy of their returns as received by the IRS ?

many thanks

Alan


Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-03-27 20:58:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionThe three month thing
Apologies as I am sure this has been asked before but I can't find it:

If I am in State for 3 months and file, what if we move during the process ?

Does the law just state 3 months at the time of filing, or 3months at the time of oath, or both ?

Thanks


Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-19 16:44:00
US Citizenship General Discussionapprove and oath same day
QUOTE (NickD @ Aug 20 2009, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They consistently send us to Milwaukee for biometrics and Bloomington for interviews, they told us where to go and when, we obeyed. If they sent us to LA for the oath ceremony, we would have showed up, just to get it over with.


USCIS Processing Time Information for our
Yakima WA Field Office


N400 Application for Naturalization January 31, 2009
Claims applications received for January 31, 2009 are currently being processed,


Wonder how accurate those times are

I know during the GC process they would give out times of say 8 months for things that everyone knew were taking months. The timelines were laughably innacurate

The only way would be to find someone who was processed by Yakima which is in the desert and a mule train only goes through town once every 2 years

We get cut off by snow here and the 2 available mountain passes can be blocked for days. I have visions of a judge with snow shoes plodding through the drifts to get me to sing the sparse strangled spanner

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-20 10:13:00
US Citizenship General Discussionapprove and oath same day
QUOTE (NickD @ Aug 20 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Going to a different state in many ways is like going to a different country, as a Wisconsinite tagged as a Packer fan in Minnesota where there are Viking fans, not that I give a darn about these spoiled brats earning huge paychecks by playing a game. But they have this large Viking stadium and like to keep applicants waiting for up to a year until the numbers build up where over a thousand before having an oath ceremony. They call their office St. Paul and not even located in St. Paul but in Bloomington, and for some strange reason, the entire northern section of Wisconsin is in the St. Paul district while many of the cities are far closer to Milwaukee.

Like our friend just a few miles from St. Louis but in Illinois has to run clear up to Chicago. They don't give us a choice. Thanks to Sen. Feingold, he arranged a special oath ceremony for just Wisconsinites, but still in Bloomington. People were there only 70 miles from Milwaukee, really a long drive for them. Our distance is about the same either way. But if it wasn't for this special oath ceremony, we probably still would be waiting for an oath ceremony and a very long one at that.

There is no consistency between one field office and another, almost like each is making there own rules, some odd 80 different field offices. We logged close to 4,000 miles of driving for immigration and immigration related matters. From the same government that is telling us to conserve on fuel. And because of that strange over 18 rule they imposed for a child, will have to log another 1,000 miles next year.

Talk about government efficiency, these two words do not fit together.


Heck that is interesting

We started our visa journey in Hubertus, just north of Milwaukee and I am caged up here with a fervent packer fan who arranges our holidays around televised games !

I didn't know the field offices were so different

Is the field office allocated or can you choose ? For instance I am half way between Yakima nd Seattle and the USCIS website says my field office is Yakima

If it has to be whatever the website says, how do I find out whether Yakima is 4 months or 12 months ?

3 years into a 10 year green card, one might says what is the rush ? But it means putting our holidays/job changes and moving plans on hold while the process chugs on - so it is a major bind






Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-20 09:36:00
US Citizenship General Discussionapprove and oath same day
QUOTE (milimelo @ Aug 20 2009, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow saywhat, and I thought I was lurking on the naturalization forum way too early! My date comes up in March '10.

Seems as people like black and white cats! I have two - one is a real tuxedo - black coat with white paws and nose/mouth area then going down its neck, chest and to the tail - Tommy - his sister Sally is the opposite - all white except for couple of black dots and a black tail.

I will say though (and we had cats all the time), these two seem to be smarter than others - there's a demanding meow, a hungry meow and a play with me meow. They sure have their butler trained well!



Long legs tabby likes her rear haunches scratching and she sits in front of me and stares right into my eyes then raises her right hand (ok paw) and stretches it out towards me and spread those toes. Then when I stop scratching her she runs in front of me and throws herself on the floor so I cant pass. This happens 4 times in 12 paces
Wife not impressed and threatening to cite adultery on an emotional level

Women are ok but they can never quite achieve cathood






Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-19 19:10:00
US Citizenship General Discussionapprove and oath same day
QUOTE (Kathryn41 @ Aug 20 2009, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (saywhat @ Aug 19 2009, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
yes it would be interesting to see if it is small towns or large ones

I will probably be done in Yakima Washington in the desert

ps we have identical cats - the black and white one on the right


Oh cool - my husband calls them the Holstein cats, hehehe!



Brit term for a cow like that is a Friesian which aint far from Holstein - I used to date a German psychiatrist there so I know the area.

Ours I call the Orca! It waits til I need to do something intense on the computer and then shoves its whole body in my face on purpose for 10 minutes. As soon as I have finished important stuff, it slopes off and sleeps somewhere
It can't jump like the other tabby which has siamese legs and can jump 6 feet straight up.
I met a woman on the plane coming over from manchester and she had a cat under the seat - $35 it costs to fly it like that
It was very quiet - think she had slipped it a Micky Finn

I digress !

I am doing all my N400 stuff 11 months early and glad I did - some of the old obscure info is being dug out for the 4th time I reckon - including where I have lived with dates and all trips. We moved 5 times in 2 years so that's no fun

It's quite ironic that I have to swear against overthrowing the lawful government by illegal force seeing as that's how the U.S started and no event is more celebrated. I will practise not grinning for 2 months prior


Chances of getting a center which does approval and ceremony on the same day are tiny it seems

Edited by saywhat, 19 August 2009 - 06:38 PM.

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-19 18:38:00
US Citizenship General Discussionapprove and oath same day
QUOTE (Kathryn41 @ Aug 19 2009, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not that I am aware of. I do know that Atlanta will give a same day oath ceremony if your exam is in the morning and they are having an oath ceremony that afternoon. They seem to be scheduled every 2 weeks or so.


yes it would be interesting to see if it is small towns or large ones

I will probably be done in Yakima Washington in the desert

ps we have identical cats - the black and white one on the right




Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-19 16:51:00
US Citizenship General Discussionapprove and oath same day
Is there a list somewhere of which field offices actually do the approval and oath on the same day ?
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-19 16:46:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionCertificates - how many and when ?
QUOTE (NickD @ Aug 20 2009, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am reading subsections a-h as attempts to commit fraud, forgeries, sell, false entry into the USA, for either acts of false entry or even to enter into the USA for acts of terrorism. The subsections are all separated by "ors" meaning any of these false attempts. Nothing is said of making backup unmodified copies, which would be primarily for government use, who else would want to see it?



Yeah they are too busy wondering if President O is an earthly humanoid or at least a Kenyan Mau-Mau terrorist plant.
Hope he has his birth certificate in a fire proof safe or he could be the first President to claim political asylum here during his term.

In 10 years time we will all be chipped at birth like pedigree pets - so it wont be necessary

The Russian Mafia will be selling their services to dig the chips out and frig them and put em back in again
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-20 18:23:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionCertificates - how many and when ?
QUOTE (MsAnn @ Aug 20 2009, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (NickD @ Aug 19 2009, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"IT IS PUNISHABLE BY U.S. LAW TO COPY,
PRINT, OR PHOTOGRAPH THIS CERTIFICATE,
WITHOUT LAWFUL AUTHORITY."


The officer over our oath ceremony told us we can safely ignore the warning and encouraged us to make personal photocopies of the certificate good.gif . I think the statement is only so they can go after people who are making forgeries, etc.


They will just use it if they want to - if John Lennon had copies of a document with this prohibition, they would have used it to deport him.

Many laws are just wheeled out when they want to 'get' someone - like Spitzer - they were talking about doing him for transporting a prostitute across State lines.

Obviously that law was aimed at mobsters and human traffickers - but they could use it to 'get' someone they wanted to destroy. They held off this time but they use these laws in an inappropriate way as levers to gain compliance




Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-20 10:29:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionCertificates - how many and when ?
what is a copy after all ?

It has to do with counterfeiting surely - if I take a scanned black and white copy of my green card on walmart paper then it's simply not possible to use it to deceive anyone - except someone from somewhere remote like Wasilla

If I manufactured a copy using holograms and plastic so that it was identical to the real thing, and then kept it 'for my own use', I reckon that would much more culpable.

Anyway I would ask for judge Sotomajor and she would let me off and ask if I could make some more

Nice thing is they can't deport you for it once you are a USC
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-19 11:49:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionCertificates - how many and when ?
Excellent stuff Nick

That's awful though that I have to send in the original with the passport and there is no other copy

I reckon the ban on copying is for the purpose of misrepresenting - I have a billion scan copies of my GC and driver's license and they are not supposed to be copied either. I reckon a 'copy' of a driver's license would be something plastic with lots of holograms on etc - something that 'looked like' a driver's license. A scruffy scan on walmart paper isn't really a copy - it's more of a reminder or a sketch and couldn't be used to misrepresent it as a driver's license (getting my defence ready for court)

Anyway I reckon the nearest USCIS office to me is Yakima Washington - so I will go to Kinkos and get a photo copy before I mail it from the Union Gap post office a couple of miles away. Remember Gary Puckett and the Union Gap - he was living there when he formed the group - 'young girl' was a number 1 in the UK for ages but not so in the U.S. 'Lady Willpower ' was big too

Jeez if I don't get the passport, I will be stranded in the US as it would be a major pain to try and go to the UK and back without it. The woman with the tungsten steel corsets at the BMI office in Manchester would turn me away for sure when she saw my US visas and no green card. She refused me to fly once before, but it was Sunday and she couldn't get the the supervisor on the cell phone - so she had to relent and let me fly anyway (after 30 minutes in the little room) . At Chicago they waived me through with a smile. US/UK Immigration is nothing compared to the BMI lady

Yes the thought of a divorce from the USCIS is mega - still havent got over the GC trauma nearly 2 years ago . My pal has been here 12 years on GC and just saying 'INS' makes him twitch and go white - I have seen it a few times. They put him through more torment than most

Ok well I reckon a fireproof safe sunk into a concrete waterproof coffin under the house will be needed - although I reckon the passport will take over as the lead document for all but Social Security

many thanks for clearing this up

Edited by saywhat, 19 August 2009 - 10:02 AM.

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-19 10:01:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionCertificates - how many and when ?
Just doing my homework well in advance and I thought I would ask for confirmation on certificates.

Do I have it right that a sort of 'initial' certificate is isuued at the ceremony - this is used to apply for a passport - the passport comes back in a week or two and this initial certificate arrives 3 days or so later

Then a really nice and framable certificate arrives 3 weeks after that

So the citizen ends up with two certificates ?

Have i got this right - I was just trying to patch a few posts together to figure it out

thanks

Alan

Edited by saywhat, 18 August 2009 - 11:40 PM.

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-18 23:39:00
US Citizenship General Discussioncitizenship
QUOTE (nigel @ Aug 21 2009, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hay

listen here wet behind the ears whistling.gif

Don't have a go at me, cas your son is a cocane head kicking.gif



He can't spell 'cocaine' either - you have a lot in common

A modicum of literacy is necessary to gain any sort of credibility, except when it can be excused by a good attitude



If you stick with whistling.gif good.gif unsure.gif crying.gif devil.gif wacko.gif mad.gif blush.gif blink.gif kicking.gif star_smile.gif then nobody will know
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-21 10:08:00
US Citizenship General Discussioncitizenship
QUOTE (nigel @ Aug 13 2009, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry guys i wanted to finish off this but it could not edit so here is the full post.

Hmmmmm smart #### here huh?

First let me say ive been around a little more than a tommoto season on the immigration matters, as one member kindly pointed out,

Oh yep ya smart #### reply ,(don't be so lazy) you know what? i cant really blame you as back many moons ago i would and have made the same sort of B./S comments like yaself, as to members asking the same B/S Qs,.


yep i am and was being a bit of a lazy #### i know.....But saying all that ive ask yep a Question proberly been ask a billion times before but i thought it was worth a stab, if only just to get a ball park answer to my Question, i so in your eyes can not ask....but on the other side of the coin, you and me can ask a question when we was wet behind the ears...

So please don't tell me to that its all there in stone with the us goverment cas have a guess what....hello, goverment can right in blood and pass whatever and still move the goal post whenever they feel fit to do so....so please dont be so silly to think that there is no grey area in this immigration business cas if it was in stone like you state then there would be no neeed for such a forum/s on the net..

Please with respect don't try to insult me by your comments i forgot more than you proberly know about this immigration and us goverment.

I stoped making B/S answers to other members after one time a member said to me ...is this a Forum where we all give out and share infomation and help each other out the best way we can?

You Know what Mr Mouth....yep im talking to you smart ####, you know what that when i stood back and thought, you know what, he has a point! then i grew up....

..dont treat people the way you would not be treated...

Do you get my point now? please don't get me started in the dept of politics and goverment ..ive been there and got the shirt to prove it.....

THERE IS ALWAYS A GREY AREA IN ANY GOVERMENTS....

THATS WHY THERE IS FORUMS LIKE THIS...

DO YOU GET ME NOW...?

with respect...


You sound like my son - he is 40 and comes the helpless stuff too

Then when you try and help him he gets all bolshy and says he knows it all

I can be prickly as anyone on here but I am always very grateful when I get good advice and that's what you have been given by very helpful members

I think NickD puts a lot of thought and research into his replies and it's you that doesn't have the wit to understand his great answers

You sound belligerent and self admitted lazy - and I don't believe you have the respect that you write about

You don't respect the process or the government or anyone who is trying to help you - you sound like my son when he calls me at 3am with his brains full of cocaine

Do the work that people have shown you and don't expect to get your nose wiped for you at every stage

With all due respect

Edited by saywhat, 20 August 2009 - 09:48 PM.

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-20 21:48:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionN-400 Application Question About Detention
QUOTE (Italian_in_NYC @ Aug 24 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You only need to check yes if you were arrested. That's it.
Even traffic tickets, no need to check yes unless it's DUI or fine >$500, which usually lead to arrests anyways.
Let's cut the paranoia.


Totally agree - its paranoia

I think there is something in the UK now known as 'detention' as distinct from 'arrest'

That's why I was careful to say I am not an expert in US law and I am also out of date with UK law


I havent researched the UK detention thing yet but I am absolutely positive this OP was not detained

I served 6 years in the UK police and we had to symbolically put our hand on a person's shoulder and tell them they were being arrested - I am sure detention will involve telling them they are detained.

In the US you are screamed at, thrown to the floor and a 40 caliber Glock is shoved in the back of your head while you are being cuffed, tazered and 'rag dolled' by a big black police dog with buckets of saliva dripping from it's fangs. This is a good indication of detention

This even happens to the 18 year old boys who go round to a house on the the invitation of a fake 13 year old who goes on the internet and says she is looking for a good time, so what what happen to a violent person would be quite spectacular




Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-24 09:31:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionN-400 Application Question About Detention
QUOTE (NickD @ Aug 24 2009, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (saywhat @ Aug 23 2009, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (TBoneTX @ Aug 22 2009, 07:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be certain, talk to at least two criminal attorneys.


I feel this is getting ridiculous now - there is no way that the USCIS would see this as detention...

'At least 2 attorneys' - does this mean 3 ? See 3 criminal attorneys and if 2 says he wasn't detained he should see a third ?

Why stop at 3 ?

It's like a murder mystery now and people are indulging themselves in imagination

If a police officer stops me in the street and says 'did you hear a scream about and hour ago'
and I say 'no' does that mean I was detained by the Police ? of course not

I think someone has to be told they are being detained for them to be detained.

Detention is like sex - you will know that it happened if it did

It didn't


It's the nebulous way the N-400 form asks questions like did you belong to any fund raising organizations? United Way certainly fits that bill. What about, did you ever commit a crime you were never caught or arrested for? Is voting for other than an incumbent a means of overthrowing the government? Then the threat of not getting USC if you answered any of the questions inaccurately and taking the questions at their literal value. How many days did you spent out of the country in the last five years when you have only been here three? If your husband is supporting you and you have sex, are you a prostitute? Either are doing it for money, either directly or indirectly. What if your traffic fine is $500.00 and not $499.99 with no inflation factor involved? Ha, beg the judge for a penny discount.



Love it ! You talk like me sometimes so be careful or you will end up a difficult old codger ! I am on a self prepared 'nice' course this week and fighting my critical urges - but all this talk of 'detention' just coz a copper has spoken to you makes my blood boil with 'aaarrrgghhh' thoughts. If I am in a traffic line at the ferry terminal, have I been detained ? I can't go forward, back or sideways and I want to and I am being prevented by a guy in uniform. Think I will put that on the N400

My wife is very 'earnest' and it's a good job she is the USC or when asked 'Have you committed a crime nobody else knows about', she would wrestle with what to say for days. I am the opposite and when I am asked about overthrowing the legal government by armed force, I think back to 1776 and feel like putting 'don't judge people by your own deplorable standards'

Anyway I am being detained from my coffee by writing this - detention is everywhere

In Washington, the OP could have shot his wife between the eyes with 357 magnum and gotten away with it as self defense - so answering a couple of questions like 'did it hurt when she bashed you over the head with the frying pan' is hardly detention, more a kind of prurient curiosity

cor
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-24 09:01:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionN-400 Application Question About Detention
QUOTE (TBoneTX @ Aug 22 2009, 07:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be certain, talk to at least two criminal attorneys.


I feel this is getting ridiculous now - there is no way that the USCIS would see this as detention...

'At least 2 attorneys' - does this mean 3 ? See 3 criminal attorneys and if 2 says he wasn't detained he should see a third ?

Why stop at 3 ?

It's like a murder mystery now and people are indulging themselves in imagination

If a police officer stops me in the street and says 'did you hear a scream about and hour ago'
and I say 'no' does that mean I was detained by the Police ? of course not

I think someone has to be told they are being detained for them to be detained.

Detention is like sex - you will know that it happened if it did

It didn't










Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-23 22:40:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionN-400 Application Question About Detention
QUOTE (Itzhak101 @ Aug 19 2009, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank you very much for the responses.

Lucyrich you are spot on. I may have been detained without me realizing it or without someone else telling me that I was being detained. Did I have the option to leave the house and walk away from the house? Absolutely not. It would have been an arrest. I did consent and responded the officers' questions in a civil manner; however, it doesn't change the fact that I had no other option other than refusing to cooperate and getting arrested. On the contrary, detention may be defined as physically restraining someone (handcuffing, holding..etc). I called the USCIS and asked them to define what they mean by "detention". The rep red a generic text about having any misdemeanors, felonies, arrests...etc. She was clueless.

I may have misinterpreted the my situation. This is why I am asking about your opinions whether or not you would consider it a detention.

I do not want to wait until the interview to break the news to the immigration officer who is working on my case. I will send them a sworn testimony via certified mail and attach copies of the case documents. I will also bring the originals to the interview. I am trying to provide them all of the asked information to the best of my knowledge and ability. N-400 guidelines are very vague and I can't get a straight answer from USCIS. So I will write them and bring this up at the interview as well.

I really appreciate your responses.


My experience is UK rather than US, but English law is at the very center of US law so I am pretty sure it's applicable

I was a Police Officer for 6 years and I passed my Sergeant's exams and Inspector's exams - they are the highest and I came 4th in the UK in the Inspector's exams and I was asked to go on the special accelerated promotion course at Bramshill or to be sponsored for a law degree at Leeds University - that's just background so you know I have a feel for this stuff

If you were detained you would be aware of it. When a police office stops you for speeding, you are not detained while he is talking to you and writing the ticket. If you try and drive off you will be detained or arrested

What happened to you is no 'worse' than talking to a Police Officer while he questions you about speeding - it is not detention

I have a fixed penalty speeding ticket and the officer spoke to me for 5 minutes and I knew I couldn't go - but it wasn't detention

Edited by saywhat, 21 August 2009 - 11:46 AM.

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-08-21 11:45:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionI do not understand the new citizenship test
I am fine with Geordie or inner city Glasgow or Cockney or Cornwall or New York or Rural Georgia - I like accents - but some of them at the USCIS are ... well ....really hard to understand and English is not their first language and hardly their second. Actually that's not quite correct as some of them have very strong accents verging on 'rap' which are just as hard to decipher.

I am hoping for an interview at Yakima, Washington State which is more rural so I am hoping for a Washington accent - but it's a lottery. I am learning more Spanish this winter so we might have to do the English test in Spanish (joke)


Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-11-11 22:47:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
Your mom would be a first class soldier I am sure.

I know a lot about women because I have had eight wives (only 3 were mine)

I would rather fight a man than a woman anytime and on any terms

From age 19 to 26 I was a Police Officer and my first fight was with a woman in the back of a big van. She slammed me round the van on every panel for 10 miles while my colleagues looked back through the cab window and laughed.

I would have an all female army and back em against anyone anywhere.

Ask Tiger Woods

click >


[attachment=11869:eltigre.jpg]
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-05 15:17:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
The religious exemption only comes in if you have received 'religious training'.

If you are your own person and have your own set of ethics and morality and beliefs, (like me) they won't accept this as a religious exemption.

I don't know how many adherants you need for a religion to be classed as a religion - does it have to be registered as a charity for tax exemption ?

I guess every religion starts off as one person believing something but until they get their first X converts and their tax exemption, it won't be classed as religious training.

I bet 99% of immigrants have 'mental reservations' and therefore lie about totally disowning any loyalty or affiliation etc to their original country.

The majority of Canadians in the first world war were actually British emigrees to Canada


quote:(CEF = Canadian expeditionary force)


Seventy percent of the men who enlisted in the CEF were British immigrants, even though British immigrants were just eleven percent of Canada’s population. Anglo-Saxon Canadians whose ancestors had lived in North America for generations had low enlistment rates similar to those seen in French Canadian communities







Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-05 13:33:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
I love the 'without mental reservation ' thing.

How would they know ? Polygraph ?

My mum introduced me to one of the carers at her old people's home and said 'this is my friend' - then she said 'well at least that's what I say, you don't know what I am really thinking do you ?'. It's Brit humour and wouldn't work at all in the U.S. and the speaker would be taken literally and labelled as 'a bad person' who was bound for the fires of hell which are a popular concept in the U.S.

Out of the mouths of people in their 90's and children, come truths that are obvious to them, but too simple for us in between ages.

When I was 9, I was a Primitive Methodist and swore an oath to stay away from alcohol and loose women.
If the USCIS researched my later adherance to that oath, they probably would have doubts about my 'mental reservations' during oath taking. In fact I had none as I was ignorant of what I was supposed to be giving up , just as young soldiers are ignorant of what they are taking on.


I am just a poor boy
Though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-04 13:15:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
QUOTE (toma1 @ Dec 4 2009, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My cousin went back after leaving as a petty officer and they sent him to the Coast Guard Academy. Ended up valedictorian...


I was victor ludorem

and had the elementary 25 yard swimming cerificate

http://en.wikipedia..../Victor_Ludorum

Edited by saywhat, 04 December 2009 - 11:25 AM.

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-04 11:24:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
Bob Dylan's lyrics echo down the decades:



Try hard, get barred
Get back, ride rail
Get jailed, jump bail
Join the army if you fail
Look out kid
You're gonna get hit
By losers, cheaters
Six-time users
Hangin' 'round the theaters
Girl by the whirlpool
Lookin' for a new fool
Don't follow leaders
Watch the parkin' meters

Edited by saywhat, 04 December 2009 - 10:48 AM.

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-04 10:47:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
QUOTE (internetkafe @ Dec 4 2009, 03:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (saywhat @ Dec 3 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (internetkafe @ Dec 3 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We may need draft if the president keeps sending troops around the world at the current speed and stamina.
It is better to spread it than putting the entire burden on a group of people who volunteered for several reasons.
In my opinion, being for draft is the definition of patriotism. If you are against draft you are unpatriotic.


My granddad was against the draft as he had 5 tiny children. He avoided being sent to kill Turks but then they drafted him and he was quickly killed in France.

Was he unpatriotic ?


Was he pro-war? If he were and he did not want to join the war effort then he was unpatriotic, otherwise no.

Redneck-NOVA, do you agree?

Krikit, NickD makes me laugh not only sometimes, but almost always biggrin.gif


I see your country is Turkey - if he had joined earlier he could have killed a lot of Turks - patriotic Turks no doubt - does this make a difference ?

Ordinary guys who have 5 little kids and who work as a brick yard carter don't have complex views on politics or overseas adventures. They have other priorities.





Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-03 22:15:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
QUOTE (internetkafe @ Dec 4 2009, 03:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (saywhat @ Dec 3 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (internetkafe @ Dec 3 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We may need draft if the president keeps sending troops around the world at the current speed and stamina.
It is better to spread it than putting the entire burden on a group of people who volunteered for several reasons.
In my opinion, being for draft is the definition of patriotism. If you are against draft you are unpatriotic.


My granddad was against the draft as he had 5 tiny children. He avoided being sent to kill Turks but then they drafted him and he was quickly killed in France.

Was he unpatriotic ?


Was he pro-war? If he were and he did not want to join the war effort then he was unpatriotic, otherwise no.

Redneck-NOVA, do you agree?

Krikit, NickD makes me laugh not only sometimes, but almost always biggrin.gif


I see your country is Turkey - if he had joined earlier he could have killed a lot of Turks - patriotic Turks no doubt - does this make a difference ?

Ordinary guys who have 5 little kids and who work as a brick yard carter don't have complex views on politics or overeas adventures. They have other priorities.





Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-03 22:00:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
Saw a TV interview with a British first world war conscripted vet about 20 years ago and they asked him about his training.

He said he had only fired 4 rounds from his rifle before he arrived in France. They put him up against a Prussian guards Division.

He said the whole thing was ridiculous. They used to meet the Germans every night at a stream where they all filled their water bottles. They used to chat about stuff and swap cans of food and cigs and show each other photos of their families until the top Officers found out about it and stopped it.

I say no exemptions for families of politicians, they go first. The Politicians can resign if they don't like it.

You bet that Tommy sees >>

http://www.web-books...pling/Tommy.htm
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-03 18:27:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
QUOTE (internetkafe @ Dec 3 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We may need draft if the president keeps sending troops around the world at the current speed and stamina.
It is better to spread it than putting the entire burden on a group of people who volunteered for several reasons.
In my opinion, being for draft is the definition of patriotism. If you are against draft you are unpatriotic.


My granddad was against the draft as he had 5 tiny children. He avoided being sent to kill Turks but then they drafted him and he was quickly killed in France.

Was he unpatriotic ?

Edited by saywhat, 03 December 2009 - 02:56 PM.

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-03 14:56:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
jeez - in an hour I am off to the range to see my pal Butch who had his foot shredded by a mine in Vietnam - 5 years in hospital trying to save it and make it work.
He was 19 when he was - I was an inner city cop in the UK and thinking I had it tough - but I didnt have all that stuff. I was having my early 20's as one big party compared to him. I have the greatest sympathy for all who had to go and suffer everything that goes with it. Many of them must try and make sense of it by supporting the whole thing otherwise it would be too hard to bear, but many others must be embittered by having their 20's stolen for all that stuff.
I think the people in the US who were against the war should nevertheless have given their total support and sympathy and practical help and reward to those who had to go and they were horribly wrong to lay it on the troops

Edited by saywhat, 03 December 2009 - 02:43 PM.

Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-03 14:42:00
US Citizenship General DiscussionWilling to bear arms?
QUOTE (Krikit @ Dec 3 2009, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (saywhat @ Dec 3 2009, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also staying a LPR does not absolve anyone. LPR's are treated the same as Citizens and have to sign up for this when they apply for a green card (selective service)

My Canadian friend (a LPR) was enrolled at an American university during that time and was obligated to serve in Vietnam. It changed him forever. sad.gif

It's interesting how some believe that upholding the US Constitution automatically translates into bearing arms and killing people. There is a role for everyone during times of strife. Everyone has a talent for something and those talents would be best put to use elsewhere. Chaplains, for instance, cannot carry firearms. But they do serve when called up. I would also prefer that my doctor be looking after his patients rather than running around with a gun.



Actually I have just realized that the whole subject and discussion of this post is irrelevant as the only people who can apply for Naturalisation are LPR's and they are already in selective service if they fit the profile..

The oath at the time of Naturalisation is superfluous except that it means that after the ceremony you are still on the hook as a citizen if you leave the country, whereas an LPR can skip off as soon as Lockheed's shares go up and ####### Cheney gets his grin back.
Captain OatesMaleEngland2009-12-03 13:56:00