biggish data

Bevan would be spinning in his grave if he could see what his idea has transformed into.

The gravy train is over, a lot of people are going to be in for a nasty shock.

My great grandmother was Sarah Bevan from the South Welsh borders - perhaps I am related to the great man - look you boyo.

The NHS varies from rubbish to excellent - Harrogate Hospital is great. Come in, sit down, have a coffee, I will bring a doctor to you !

The NHS is the best thing that ever happened to the UK and anyone who beats it up will be voted out.

Aneurin Bevan

Nye Quote:
The eyes of the world are turning to Great Britain. We now have the moral leadership of the world and before many years we shall have people coming here as to a modern Mecca, learning from us in the twentieth century as they learned from us in the seventeenth century.
speech at Manchester, 4 July 1948
.

Edited by Ashud Cocoa, 26 June 2012 - 05:51 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-26 17:48:00

My MP forwarded my letter to Theresa May for her response. He's a Lib Dem so I'd liked to have heard his response as well, but there you go.

Get more sense out of Teresa Green

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-26 14:49:00

It will be easy to 'round trip' the income by showing an individual earning 20k at a family business and then taking the money back in cash.

They could employ 20 waiters with a nominal income of 20k each and then take the cash back. It only costs the tax

I could invent evasions all night long - its easy. It is SO EASY to beat this system !

In an immigrant community where so many are self employed, these schemes will be very easy and very common.

In the insular 'native' English communities it will be much harder - and therefore yes it racist - but against the original natives of England as their communities offer far less opportunities to 'window dress' an individual's income

Get your uncle to give you a contract where he pays you 20k to mow his lawn - give him the money back in the pub later - easy

Edited by Ashud Cocoa, 25 June 2012 - 06:55 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-25 18:54:00

Reply from my MP >>>

Dear Alan,

Thank you for your e-mail and for your comments and suggestions. I’m sympathetic to a lot of what you say and I’m sorry that you have found yourselves in this predicament.

Following a consultation the Government is announcing changes to the rules governing family migration. The Government is proposing to:

• Increase the income threshold for those wishing to bring a spouse/partner to live with them in the UK from £13,700 to £18,60;
• Extend the probationary period by which a non EEC partner or spouse can apply for settlement from 2 – 5 year;
• Introduce criteria by which UKBA caseworkers can test and ensure that relationships are genuine and not sham or forced marriages;
• A “Life in the UK Test” for applicants to prove understanding of the English language and knowledge of life in the UK;
• Adult dependent relatives will only be able to settle in compassionate circumstances and will be limited to immediate family (mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children); and to
• Restrict the right of appeal for family visitors.

The Restriction the right of appeal for family visitors has been considered as it is cheaper and quicker for candidates to re-submit their application instead. The Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) recommended an income threshold between £18,600 and £25,700, the Government has adopted the very bottom range of these suggestions (£18,600) and is the point at which a couple ceases to be eligible for income related benefits. Of course, an income threshold already exists and so this is not an entirely new measure.
The coalition Government must be firm but fair on immigration, so I welcome the income threshold that was eventually agreed. However, I completely understand your frustration on this issue and I would like to make it clear that this is a Conservative policy, not a Coalition policy. It seems that this policy reflects the broader Conservative pre-election pledge to cut all immigration by ‘tens of thousands rather than the hundreds of thousands’ and does not take into account individual circumstances that your case rightly highlights.
Please be assured that I will continue to raise the concerns that you have raised on this issue with the Government. Please don’t hesitate to contact me again if I can further assist you with this or any other matter.

Best wishes,

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-25 12:04:00

Some of the new rules we haven't talked about include new stipulations against bringing an aging parent to the UK. When I read that portion, it wasn't hard to understand the underlying language against plain old British pensioners.

One of the favorite rants of supporters of the new rules is how immigrants drain the NHS. Someone on BritishExpats put that down by asking the propenent if he was dead, because unless he was, everytime he bought $hit, he contributed to the NHS through general taxation. Theresa May even brought up NHS drain when she put her motion on the table in Parliament on Tuesday night.

I love how Parliament talks out both sides of their mouth. Anyone bringing a foreign spouse to the UK is subject to a nationwide income threshold; but public sector workers should accept regional pay.

Sunday I read in the Beeb about Cameron wishing to cut housing benefit to anyone under the age of 25. I also read this morning how the new welfare manifesto he is working on is from the Conservative standpoint rather than a Coalition standpoint. Such sabre rattling and all just days after the House of Commons qualified Article 8.

I tell you - the British public should watch these people. Real closely.

The nhs is like state pensions in that it is unfunded and relies on a 'social contract' between people who are sick and those who are not sick (yet)
It is therefore based on trust and a moral principle

The present government does not believe in 'society' and co-operation because helping each other is too near 'socialism'

I recommend the book 'In place of fear' (published 1952) by Aneurin Bevan who set up the NHS. All the principles are discussed including treating foreigners without cost as it is cheaper so to do (and more moral)

That is totally unthinkable in the US which is Thatcherite and then some (even under "the most liberal president ever") - but the UK will squander it's glorious heritage (the NHS), if voucherism and exclusions and selfishness is propagated as it was in the Thatcher the milk-snatcher days.

Blocking spouses from the USA/Canada/Australia/NZ and many other developed nations, just in order to TRY and lessen Pakistani/Bangladeshi immigration (it wont), is incredibly stupid and is callous 'collateral damage'.

WE have the means to get round it (in its present form at least), but the whole point of being British is to be fair minded and moderate, and if the Brits lose that, there will be no point in returning anyway as it would be wall-to-wall Rush Limbaugh types living in gated communities and fighting over the crumbs with the Pakistanis who's continuing immigration will continue unabated

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-25 11:20:00

We have never considered moving back, but it makes me angry that if we wanted or needed to, it'd be damn near impossible now. Punish the British citizen is right!

Thank goodness my daughter is a half Brit so she can skip that ####### if she ever wants to move back (on her own anyway).

I have always regarded that red passport as the difference between life and death or at least economic ruin if we ever encounter a serious health problem and the health insurance rats on us.

I was listening to woman on telly who lifted a weight and had chest pains and went for a check up. She had no insurance for her 2 hour visit to the hospital, and she was expecting a bill of around one thousand dollars.

She was billed FOURTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS for 2 hours of tests. She will be paying it off for many years.

Similarly, If my wife lost her job at say 55 years of age, we would have 10 years with no health care. It would cost well into 6 figures to buy it for 10 years and even then they might not pay up.

The chance to escape to the UK if health problems arise is very valuable. I was paying $55kpa tax in 1995 so they owe me.

Edited by Ashud Cocoa, 25 June 2012 - 10:06 AM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-25 10:06:00

Here is true story - first hand and not hearsay:

In 1995 I went into the job center in Guiseley West Yorks and joined the line to sign on

In front of me were two individuals of South Asian appearance

I was standing with 3 feet of them as they sat down for interview and heard everything

The second man explained that the first man was the claimant and he had come along as interpreter for his friend

He explained that his friend had just arrived on the plane from Hong Kong and wanted to sign on as he had no money

The officer asked if he had papers to live in the UK - answer was yes but he didn't have the papers with him

The officer said "thats ok"

The officer said a check for social security would be sent to his address

Then I sat down. I said I had been employed by a company for 14 years and had been fired along with the rest of the employees as the job had moved to Holland.

The Officer said I had received compensation so I should come back when that ran out

The guy who had arrived in England 12 hours earlier and spoke no English, walked out smiling.

I wasn't smiling

This new legislation is against that background, but it is targeted in an amateurish fashion

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-25 08:40:00

I knew there were changes coming. I've been reading about them for months. But, since this news came out nearly two weeks ago, I feel as if a bucket of cold water has been poured over me.

It's always been hard to get work in my husband's home city. Believe it or not though, since coming to the US he's gotten himself into a field of work where he was pretty confident he could find like employment easily in Londonderry. But it doesn't pay £18,600 per year. Not a lot does.

We don't have the kind of money in savings the Coalition would want to offset his earnings. But we'd have enough to keep us from qualifying from any benefits over there if he was working in his field.

I can hardly look at photos of Wes' home city. All I can think when I look at them is "we can never live there now". I've tried to keep my own personal emotions out of this thread, but today is a bad day. I feel as if I'm falling into a depression over this. All we wanted is a way of life where we weren't reliant on an automobile. Where walking for essentials is do-able and easy. Where the weather is mild. Where we are close to London so we can travel there easily. And my stupid idyllic vision of the UK as an inclusive country that welcomes multi-culturism is smashed to bits. I think of the Empire conquering 100 years ago, and now spitting on those very people in Africa and India again.

This is a day where I want to cry.

*edited for $hitty grammar*

We had many days and weeks in the US process when we felt like that... I am pretty resilient but it screwed me up and we couldn't see a way through.

Then the world turns and 'something' changes

Keep prodding and poking at the problem and some way might just become apparent

I got the local police sergeant's 19 year old daughter pregnant when I was with my parents and earning just enough to put petrol in my motorbike.

Problem !

He was a free mason with contacts

Two months later I got married, joined the Police, her father arranged a really nice brand new Police House and I was earning 3 times as much !

We watched the moon landing on telly while we were on honeymoon in Wales

All problems solved.

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do - so keep that thinking cap on !

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-23 18:36:00

No not any more!

In my opinion, after having done/doing both, id say the US one is way easier. I think everybody has a different experience though. I think common belief is that the UK just opens the borders and hands you a benefit book!

When yanky wife did the UK thing in 2006, it was a total piece of cake - I drove her to Chicago and she got the UK green card stamp before we had time to get a coffee. We were back in Wisconsin by tea time. We flew to the yookay and she got free health care for life on landing. She wasn't fingerprinted and didn't have a physical exam or inoculations and didn't produce police certificates etc etc etc etc

The US income level was easier and I made it to citizenship in 3 years, but apart from those two, the USCIS was horrendous.

I can remember having to get money to the USCIS in order for them to send me a form. I did the US GC while we lived in the UK and doing it like that is VERY hard with the couriers etc. I used all the VJ tricks of forging the bar codes on the forms etc (ok not actually forging just reproducing) which saved some months, but it still took almost a year of horror and delays. Right at the end they said my wife wasn't TEMPORARILY absent from the US so couldn't sponsor me. We had a one hour argument on the phone and they only relented when she showed that she had paid her STATE taxes recently

The US Embassy in London said I wasn't on that day's list and come back in 6 weeks - and we had an argument about that too before they gave in and admitted my appointment letter was genuine !

So apart from the money limit and the drawn out probation, I still think the UK is much easier to do and I wouldn't do the US thing again as it took 15 years off my life span

However, this latest UK stuff is ham-fisted and particularly hard for younger people who don't have the funds. If there is no recourse to public funds then what is their problem ? It is up to the individual whether they are prepared to put themselves through hell for the visa, but BLOCKING people who want to be together unnecessarily is not nice and is cold blooded

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-23 16:50:00

I'm going to report my own post here and ask that Moderation please pin this thread. Perhaps the thread title should be changed to read something like "Before you move to the US, please read this thread".

Many UK citizens marry and move to the US with a plan to return to the UK in the future. It is VITAL they understand how difficult it will be to return to the UK with their American spouse. These changes should be a part of EVERY US/UK couples discussion about where they will spend their married lives.

Pinning the thread will also keep UK/US couples informed of changes to the rules. The rules are new and they will be challenged. But it may take court cases to change them. It may take years for things to change. This information is crucial for US/UK couples.

Good idea

A very valuable thread which will help many Brits avoid future pitfalls - providing they read it first

This legislation seeks to address a genuine problem by disadvantaging those who are not the problem

That makes it cruide and simplistic and it has been formulated in a slap-dash and LAZY manner

Average income indeed. If you have one foot in the fridge and one foot in the fire, then on average you are comfortable

Edited by Ashud Cocoa, 23 June 2012 - 08:50 AM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-23 08:50:00

Dear Mr Bryant

I write to register my disapproval of the current changes to spousal immigration which are before parliament.

I am a UK Citizen and my wife is American. In 2006 we went to the UK Consulate in Chicago and it took a few hours to obtain a UK ‘green card’ or Further Leave to Remain’ for her.

We lived in the UK and subsequently went to the US

The new law has two controversial aspects. The first is the income requirement which we can overcome, but the second abolishes the ‘married four years ‘ rule

We were relying on that rule which allowed a UK Citizen who had been married four years and lived outside the UK, to obtain permanent (not conditional) spousal residency on return to the UK

Under the new law, my wife would have to be ‘conditional ‘ for FIVE years with a renewal half way through and subject to various tests

I believe this law was rushed, and is in effect retrospective. It should only apply to persons married AFTER the new law is introduced and then when they marry, it is in full knowledge of the immigration consequences of their future plans

Retrospective law is repugnant to the English way of doing things and I hope you will oppose this aspect.

There must be people in Australia and Canada and Asia and all round the world who expected to bring their spouses to the UK under the four year rule and not to have it snatched away retrospectively

This new law is Draconian and a MUCH higher hurdle than the US which is only 3 years from resident card to citizenship !

That is as it may be, but the retrospective aspect is unacceptable

Thank you

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-14 18:32:00

In the examples near the bottom of how people may or may not meet the financial requirements - this is one which seems very unfair:

Leroy has been studying in Australia for 4 years and has entered into a civil partnership with an Australian national. He has not been working. At the end of his course he gets a job offer in the UK to start in 6 weeks, paying £25,000. Leroy has no other income or savings.
Leroy will not meet the financial requirement under Option A or B. Leon can only rely on the income from a job offer in the UK if he has also been in employment at the required level of income overseas.

He's not been working overseas because he's been studying and has managed somehow to get a good job offer back in the UK paying well over the required amount. But he still doesn't qualify to be a sponsor for his partner under the new rules! Crazy.

He now has to either go back on his own and work for at least six months at his new job - be separate from his partner all that time - and then apply again.

Or he has to give up the job offer and get a job in Australia for six months at the required amount (if he's even allowed to work there as he was a student) and then reapply.

Of course it would be nice if we were all as lucky as Katy:

Katy has been travelling across the USA for 18 months with her American partner. Katy has investments that pay her £10,000 a year and she has £40,000 cash in the bank. She has not been working in the USA and has no job in the UK to return to.
Katy will meet the financial requirement through a combination of Options C and D. As she is not relying on any income from employment, she does not need to have a job offer in the UK and can meet the threshold in other ways.
Based on her non-employment income of £10,000, Katy will require £37,500 in savings to meet the threshold: ([£18,600 - £10,000] x 2.5) + £16,000. As she has more than this, the financial requirement is met.

It's a loan shark's dream.
Poor immigrants will be abused and used by the traffickers and loan sharks and be in their grip for years after they arrive.
Well off long-married re-immigrants will be put off with all this '5 years probation' stuff and will decide not to enter this uncertainty zone and not bring and spend their life savings and tax into the UK economy
Genius plan Mr Cameron - what else did you devise in the other half of your lunch hour

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-14 15:25:00

The unspoken sub-text to all this as we all know, is that they want to prevent British born Pakistanis and Bangladeshis importing millions of spouses from those countries.

Just because the whites have evolved in the UK and grown the language there for the last 1,500 years, they think they should be able come and go with their spouses as they please

A few minutes thought convinced me that British is British and we wouldn't stop a million British guys importing Thai girls would we ?

We might. That is an industry too

The government should be more open with what this is all about so that fairer rules can be devised which would not discriminate against any Brit of any race, but would address whatever concerns the government planners have, and in a way that applies to everyone and is fair and kind

In particular, the rules should be those that applied BEFORE the marriage and not after. Anyone married before the rule changes should have the old rules applied.

If someone marries knowing the new rules, then ok the new rules can apply - but the new rules are a GOTCHA

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-14 13:12:00

I would have less of an issue with the income if it didn't demand that it be earned income for the UKC, with no option of co-sponsoring. It's clearly biased (generally speaking) against UKC women, especially those who stay at home or work part time to raise children. Alternatively, what if the UKC is retired but has a non-UKC spouse who is still working and capable of earning a good salary (and paying taxes)?

It also doesn't adequately consider the circumstances that most of us find ourselves in - someone who lives abroad who might want to move back. I imagine that many, many people could do this with less than $100k savings without recourse to public funds because they have family back in the UK who would offer a place to stay until they got on their feet. Someone with only $10k savings could manage just fine without help from their family for a few months as they took time finding a job, etc.

It really does boggle my mind how retrograde and out of touch with normal people this is - exactly what I'd expect from this government.

Heck it might be necessary for the UKC to become a German or Irish person and then immigrate to the UK that way !
It confirms what my dad always thought and the British State puts no value on it's citizens other than as cannon fodder in it's wars.
It asks for loyalty and then gives non. Actually, I realized this when I went to the British Embassy in Saudi. I was in distress and they were more concerned with not upsetting the Saudis and the warplane sales

Winston Churchill's mother was American - she would have faced many hurdles had it been 2012
Boris Johnson entered as dependent on a US passport

The yanks are over the top when it comes to all the qualifiers they put on everything, but the Brits have over simplified. My American wife has had FLR in the UK in 2006 - but there will be zero allowance for that once she left. 5 years probation now. Its too simple - too harsh.

Look out for quotas next when the traffickers get round this one

They could have left the 4 year married rule but excluded access to public funds for 5 years - but that's too complex for them

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-14 12:11:00

What I don't understand about the proposals is the requirement that one must keep money in excess of £16K on hand IF you have an income shortfall.

Because as you say, plenty of people can live on less than £18600 if they have no housing cost.

Our plan has been to return and buy a small house or flat. Property costs being what they are and my refusal to live in a hovel means we would probably use up most of our cash savings to purchase a property.

Under the new rules, it seems like we'd need to rent for five years before we could buy property.

I don't really think it's the place of the Home Office to tell us we need to strap ourselves with rental payments for five years just so we can meet their arbitrary target. It's our money, after all.

Absolutely - they are making it easy on themselves be being so arbitrary - the 'no recourse to public funds' should be sufficient.
The hundreds of thousand of illegals in London are living on less than that and without recourse.

My ex father in law was spending 5 pounds a week on food in 2006. Potato soup/turnip/Morrison's cooked chicken etc and he was as fit as a lop in his eighties and not hungry

Last week I covered my settee with the union flag and put on my union tie to watch the jubilee on my telly, but now I realize what my UK passport is worth to the UK government - not much.

My dad spent 6 years abroad in the war including the jungles of Burma and his dad was killed in France in 1917 when my dad was 18 months old. I worked all my career in England and my kids and grandchildren live there..

I will be able to get round this because I have enough - but for other returning Brits this is an insult to 'our own' while giving the illegals a free pass

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-13 20:30:00

Alan, there's provision in the Statement of Intent for Bereaved Partners. I believe she would be OK. Scroll down through the Statement and you'll find the info.

Thanks a lot for that - there is a lot to digest !

I reckon it would be doable for us and just a lot more hassle than the old 4 year rule

I feel so bad for people who can't hit the new income target as plenty of people can live on less than that if they have cheap or free accommodation!

I went through hell to get my US green card and I never thought the UK would go down this road - there are hundreds of thousands of illegals in London - they should have started with that problem first but honest applicants are always easier to whack

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-13 20:06:00

I just found this thread today. I am the UK Citizen and my wife is a USC. Actually, I am a USC too.

In 2006 we breezed into the British Consulate in Chicago and she got a UK "green card" in 20 minutes flat. We then went to live in the UK. 2007 was the wettest since the ice age and we were living in a real dump in Lancashire near her work. Eventually we got depressed and decided to move to Florida thinking how easy it was to come back to the UK

I am retired now and we were thinking of living in the UK again (not Lancashire)

She had visions of using the 4 year rule to get a UK "unconditional green card" (US terms)- but that is now scrapped

That would make it possible for her to early retire and live on my income (more than the new min). We couldn't do that in the US due to health care costs of 12k+

Our problems with the new rules are tiny compared to families who have my sympathy, but I must say these rules are very draconian.

As I am older than her, she worries that she would be thrown out if I died while she is not on permanent status.

Does anyone know what happens in those circumstances ? I know the US used to throw out conditional GC holders if their sponsor died, but it may have been changed.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2012-06-13 19:54:00

Something Funny

Why couldn't Jeremy Clarkson have been in that accident at Elvington instead of the Hamster? And why couldn't it have prevented him from speaking?

yes he made some criticisms of the US so he deserves to die or at least be paralyzed so he can't speak

jeez HA - it's only a car program - can't he even say the American cars have soft suspension and he prefers a sportier feel ?

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 03:06:00

Queen invites US to merge the countries !

Buckingham Palace May 23..
Queen Elizabeth the 2 of England, Europe, France has issued the following statement:

After careful consideration, I have decided that my reputed son Charles is not a fit person to take over the reigns of the realm. I have therefore felt it opportune to contact President Bush to discuss this Country being admitted to the United States but with full Statehood and not as an overseas territory.
He has undertaken to pass the necessary legislation including changes to the constitution, by April 1st (formerly known as 1st April) next year.
Mr Brown is working on plans to change Britain's road system to drive on the right , to scrap the Oxford Dictionary, and import the necessary numbers of check trousers and cars with soft suspensions .
The Commonwealth will be incorporated as overseas US territories and enjoy the protection of the United States to the same degree as any other part of the United States (New Orleans for instance).

<<< message ends >>>

The white house response:
I would like to congratulatorize her royal highnessness queen elizabelle the tooth on this bold move and ask her to submit all dvd's held in the Palace for authenticityness checks by disneyworld as we want to start the relationships off with a clean slate

<<< message ends >>>

I invite all Vj'ers to endorse this bond which is long overdue

alan

Edited by saywhat, 23 May 2007 - 03:31 AM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 03:29:00

um what's a hen do? and if you say peck at the ground i'll you
She will tell you but if you ever went on a Geordie hen do you would never forget it.... never been on one myself but I have seen em

I know your going to say what's a Geordie ? hard to describe - but reading a description won't do

A bit like reading about the finest afghan curry - it gets you 1% of the way to understanding it...

tut tut, I lived in Mackem territory, not Geordieland, no

Any Mackem or Geordie would also agree

It'll still be a blinder, mind you.
It'll be Whitley bay then - that's where all the hen parties go - all the single /divorced guys from as far south as yorkshire go there for the spare totty who are whoopin it up with what we used to call 'gay abandon'

guess we can't call it that now...

Never went myself so they probably came back empty handed as you might say - trying to figure what 'annawayanshyte' meant

Sunlun, why aye marra!

lol haddaway n shite

the pityakkers of my village were the ones who gave me the most trouble.

GAN YEM!

meanwhile, it took me about a month or so screaming at everyone telling them MY NAME'S NOT BONNIE to figure out that they knew that already, lol

yal be losin' em noo lass !
My German teacher asked me what 'taluv' meant - she got it every day and had looked it up in the dictionary..

I told her it was a Viking hangover as modern Danish is tak for thankyou and love means love which is what you get called all day as you know...
I bet you got 'chucky' a lot too -
Yes I can understand people being a bit wary when confronted by the descendants of the vikings - we do tend to crash onto the beach without asking still...
and 'gang ta liggadoon' of course is 'gone to lay her down' (modern german liegen ) to lay down

oh dear I can't imagine the sticking power it must have taken for an American to grapple with that lot

you did very well

Germans fit in very easily in Yorkshire because the hard language is very close to theirs.

I met a german lady lady in Bradford and she turned to her husband at closing time and said

and said .........'eyup stir thysen - look sharp'

it was hilarious...

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 13:07:00

Where can I get my brains washed, I need to fit in

Admitting you have a problem is the first step toward recovery.

I totally agree and I have found the answer ....thanks to all the willing contributors, I know exactly how to handle the situation now and I feel much more at ease now that all the data is collected.....

Information is the currency of power and knowing what is in the water around you is the first step to safe swimming

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 12:41:00

methinks the chance of the above happening is as likely as a snowball in hades

I agree - my ice cream money is safe - I will spend it on a decent pint while I can

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 12:17:00

um what's a hen do? and if you say peck at the ground i'll you
She will tell you but if you ever went on a Geordie hen do you would never forget it.... never been on one myself but I have seen em

I know your going to say what's a Geordie ? hard to describe - but reading a description won't do

A bit like reading about the finest afghan curry - it gets you 1% of the way to understanding it...

tut tut, I lived in Mackem territory, not Geordieland, no

Any Mackem or Geordie would also agree

It'll still be a blinder, mind you.

It'll be Whitley bay then - that's where all the hen parties go - all the single /divorced guys from as far south as yorkshire go there for the spare totty who are whoopin it up with what we used to call 'gay abandon'

guess we can't call it that now...

Never went myself so they probably came back empty handed as you might say - trying to figure what 'annawayanshyte' meant

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 12:13:00

um what's a hen do? and if you say peck at the ground i'll you
She will tell you but if you ever went on a Geordie hen do you would never forget it.... never been on one myself but I have seen em

I know your going to say what's a Geordie ? hard to describe - but reading a description won't do

A bit like reading about the finest afghan curry - it gets you 1% of the way to understanding it...

tut tut, I lived in Mackem territory, not Geordieland, no

Any Mackem or Geordie would also agree

It'll still be a blinder, mind you.

Sunlan' !!!!! I can do that accent - the yorkshire ripper hoax tapes were in that accent

You should hear me do 'I'm Jack !'

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 12:08:00

I haven't even put forth the effort to try to make friends with people. I've given up; I'm whipped.
I'll take you for a row on the Ouse next week and buy you an ice cream....
since she already stated she has great dislike for you, do you really expect her to take you up on this?
and does your wife know you're trying to arrange this?

oh Charles - it is a ladies prerogative to change her mind...and her great dislike for me is yet young...you know that...and you know I jest sometimes too don't you ?

Actually, another of my wife's fine attributes is that she isn't jealous - I found out that a regular VJ contact in Milwaukee lived within 3 miles of us there - I met up with her at mcdonalds with her kiddy and we are still in touch 2 years later ... i hope her and her husband will come and see us in Florida

VJ isn't a dating site you know and I am newly married - so I wasn't suggesting anything improper...

haha ! I would have gone though - just to get you bent over your keyboards for the feedback !

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 12:04:00

I haven't even put forth the effort to try to make friends with people. I've given up; I'm whipped.

I'll take you for a row on the Ouse next week and buy you an ice cream....

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 11:47:00

um what's a hen do? and if you say peck at the ground i'll you

She will tell you but if you ever went on a Geordie hen do you would never forget it.... never been on one myself but I have seen em

I know your going to say what's a Geordie ? hard to describe - but reading a description won't do

A bit like reading about the finest afghan curry - it gets you 1% of the way to understanding it...

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 11:12:00

That's a good point. Our nationality is one of the only things that really unifies all Americans since we all come from different walks of life.

Another thing I love about America is that you can be born anything and still become an American. I've never felt that sort of acceptance in the UK...even if you naturalize, you're still a foreigner. In America, you can naturalize and you're an American...funny accent and all.

Can't become president though Mr Schwarzenneger - funny accent and all- there are Americans and then there are Americans

Edited by saywhat, 23 May 2007 - 10:40 AM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-23 10:39:00

Wow - Trolls.

Haven't seen these in a while
C'mon suckers it's rope a dope time ! (or flex a tex)

Where's she gone ? has someone shot my fox ? unsporting bounders ! alan

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 11:24:00

Wow - Trolls.

Haven't seen these in a while

C'mon suckers it's rope a dope time ! (or flex a tex)

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 11:16:00

Nah, H_A is an all right gal. Me and her had a bit of a barny at the beginning but she's all right really. I used to just take everything she said as a personal attack without thinking the whys of her actions. Now, I DO understand those actions and some of her reasons for the way she feels.

Anyway, she doesn't need me to stick up for her, she is perfectly capable on her own. Just wanted to say my 0.02c.

She does need your support today Mags as she is catching flak from all sides - it was my turn yesterday but I invited it really so it's different.
If she hates York as much as I hate this rented house in Lancashire then she must be chewing on the bit to be breathing the same air as George W- she is probably just practising talking the same *** as him for when she gets back

She would never make it to departure time if she lived here - she would be swingin' on the ol' oak tree.

seen some dumps in my time but Darwen Lancs is the pits...and I am in the nice bit ! come on november 5 !

I am a Yorky so she is already in the best part of the best country in the world (Tony Blair last week)- if that isn't good enough then in the

words of the Eurythmics, she must be 'dreamin' like a Texan girl - a girl who thinks she has the right to everything'

Scurryless stereotyping by the Eurythmics - or was it acute observation ?

alan

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 11:09:00

HA

I have read a number of posts that You have written. I do not care to argue with you, personally I do not think you are or ever have been nice to any British person. I do not even think it is in you to be nice to any Brit, I am surprised your husband has not asked for a divorce, you obviously hate us Brits so why be married to one. I feel sorrow that you should feel this way, I am of the belief that everyone should get on. You have Whined and Whined about everything that is British, York and England is better off without you and your ignorance. You have an Axe to grind and you obviously enjoy taking it out on people you do not know. You are the reason why so many Brits get pissed off by American's and you sit there saying you do not do this or that. I am not surprised you have no British friends it is you who has the problem and it will not go away by disrespecting us Brits because we have a different view to you.

Oh and by the way I defend what I feel is right as do you, we are always going to have different views.

oh dear HA has just got personal with me over on the general forum so the olive branch has been repacked for now..
HA you know I struggle with the US but I don't pour hate on it like you do on the UK- I would like to change a lot of things as you would here and the way they do things would not be my preference..Your departure is a bit like breaking up with a boyfriend/girlfriend - some people are civilized and stay friends - some break in and and set fire to their clothes and expose their secrets to the world

guess you are the burgling type that's all

alan

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 10:56:00

Sensitive much? Or is that bug up my a$$ really just the chip on your shoulder?

I think you probably offend a lot of people with your stereotyping and gross exaggerations about how terrible life is in the UK - don't snipe at me because it can go both ways.

LOL, thanks for proving my point for me and calling me a liar to boot.

Have a nice life, Robin K. Lake.

I am NOT having my girls fighting - so stop it- if you don't behave I will put you both over my knee and spank your botties !

HA you are having bad day but I don't hate you - I think your experience here and the alien experience we have there proves that the gap exists and it's big and we both need to recognize it and not ignore it.
Generalizations are true and in general cats are bigger than mice
stereotypes are not true

Lets allow ourselves to generalize at least..then when we have learned what we are up against (in general ) - we can both develop coping strategies without devaluing our fellow humans - no matter how repulsive their habits are

Robin - sometimes Ha deserves it , but she has had enough stick for one day so kiss and make up or i will crawl down my router aerial and make you

alan

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 10:22:00

Basically I've had enough of living in the UK, true, and I'm quick to criticize it at this point because I've been wanting to leave for about three years now. I feel like I'm in prison. I suppose you could say I've become as cynical and negative as the Brits I'm surrounded by.

That was my first item in the post - will I become like an American after 6 years like HA has become like a Brit - if so do I need to get my brains washed to fit in..we are back to the start and it seems the answer is yes...

Hi ! I am your server tonight and my name is Lulabelle and I want you to know that you are a very special person - oh and have a wonderful meal and a lovely weekend and may all your children and grandchildren have perfect white teeth like mine - don't you think I'm pretty ?

Culture difference ? - light years !!!

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 10:11:00

I have to laugh when you say "constructively" as you so clearly like very little about the UK. I actually agree with some of what you say (it's funny how I got shot down for casually mentioning in the "stupid things americans say" thread that it goes both ways), your opinion of the UK is jaundiced.

Even the mildest "diss" of the US (especially Texas) and I have noticed you will respond if you see it. People who live here have every right to criticize what they don't like about the US even if they only lived here 18 months or whatever.

I love you and my heart is yours forever when Carolyn has finished with it... alan

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 10:07:00

being ruled from Brussels should get em at it

ROTFLMFAO :Lil: :Lil:

I know but they might think it's so impossible they won't even get scared - like changing the constitution so ozzy osborne could run for president - so it will fall flat - we will see - at least ozzy can say nu-cle-ar but that isn't a qualification for the job
Be interesting to see if any euro buffs come in and get enthusiastic

right I HAVE to force myself to stand back some and just pour a bit of kerosene (paraffin) on every now and then

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 09:28:00

Janice - you are the first person i have put in my friends list this year.

Thank you Alan I feel honored

I think some of the issues can be resolved if people are willing to talk, at the moment the American's think you are dissing them, which I can see you are not because of the mind set we have. The American's have a totally different mind set then us. we say Tomarrrrrrrto they say Tomaaaaaaato sort of thing. When I talk to Jon (which is every night by the way) we discuss everything and he will tell me the when and the why of things in America and I will do the same for him, it gives us a greater understanding of each other. You will find this difficult at first but trust me it will be better to talk to your wife on some of the issues you have (maybe you have done that) and not got a definitive answer.

I am like you hoping other Brits come on to this topic to discuss this issue and how they coped with integrating with people who speak the same language but have different interpretations of it...

Good thinking ! I started this topic as a serious one but conducted in a hopefully humorous fashion and I am happy with how it went overall. It is going to take a lot of tact and I might suppress my beliefs in the cause of harmony, but I sure won't change them- so honour will be satisfied...

I have just started a new one in 'other topics general' to discuss whether the USA should join the EEC - that one isn't totally serious and I just wanted to light a bonfire ! It is 'other topics' after all so it's not being a time waster - being ruled from Brussels should get em at it - I will try and stand back a bit and let a few others slog it out- of course it might not ruffle any feathers and nobody will contribute ? let's see

alan

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 09:11:00

After all the talk about apostrophes and their correct usage,...this is where you should have used one.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

-P

Of course you are right - but I am twitchy about EXTRA apostrophes and not missing ones - isn't (isnt) that strange ? I would be worried if I had a thing about ALL kinds of apostrophe matters, as that would mark me out as an obsessive... (haha)

Actually let me tell you a secret - there is worse - people who spell RECEIVE as RECIEVE !!!!! - I have to lay down in the back room after I see that and VJ is absolutely crammed with them !!!

all together now -- 'I' before 'E' except after 'C' - they can remember snoop dog rap lyrics but can't remember that

They can't all be dicksceltic can they so it's lack of hedgercasion if you ask me

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 02:24:00

Oh my, I read the whole bloody thread and all I can say is wow, people have taken this way way to seriously.

Alan to be honest you know how to splat the toes

I did not cope very well in America, Jon and I have had a lot to talk about and we have smoothed things over, I am not going back because I love America, I am going back because I LOVE MY HUSBAND very much, we have promised each other to be more tolerant to each other's way. The thing to remember is that you are kinda right, American's do not like constructive criticism, the best way to cope with this is to think really really hard before answering or just to not say anything at all. Yes I know this is hard to do, I find it hard to do and yes sometimes my mouth opens before I put the brain into gear. You have to remember that it is you who is moving country, not because you want to but because you love your Wife and want to be with her, do not worry what the outside world is thinking just what she thinks, you will be better off for it.

Janice

Janice - you are the first person i have put in my friends list this year. I actually posted in the in the UK section as I wanted some UK people perspective but I was deluged by yanquis who tried to combine to splat the invader - bit like ants when you disturb their nest.
Actually some of them are basically nice like you and me and many others are neutralish really. I found it a rewarding experience overall. I even ended up liking the bouncer guy - I don't think he should define himself 'just' as a 'bouncer' - unless his mother was standing up when she gave birth.

One in particular gave me nightmares last night - I reckon she is a one trick pony though and has no other form of attack other than telling a man he is not really a man and has small bits and bobs and is frightened and insecure and impotent and is ten a penny- we all know women who deploy that and devastate men with less self assurance than I. I am not saying it didn't hurt because I am not thick skinned - but I have seen some women deploy that over the years and once they have used it, they have nothing left in their armoury - and I am going to give her both barrels if she slithers in again. (so far I have only used my tickling stick)

As a UK person who is honest enough to say that your relationship wasn't always easy, I value your input on this. America is very foreign despite what the Americans say - a superficial person might not even see the difference - and my friend who has lived there 12 years and who is nominated to receive my green card told me that he is a very shallow person, and knows it, and thats why the US is perfect for him. Now don't get riled you Americans - it's my friend who is shallow - not America - what he is saying is that if you are a sensitive person who feels wobbly until they totally understand the environment they have dropped themselves into, then it's a difficult transition.

When I am in a muggy, flat Florida with American lager beer - I will dream of Ilkley moor and Western Scotland and ask myself why I am there. Then I will count my blessings - as you say - knowing my spouse is happier there- and also all the toys and wooden chicken sheds (houses) I can buy in the US with their half priced dollars. Then I will see the thing as a whole and be reassured that I have made the right decision...

I can't take on a continent of people and change their mindset on my own, but perhaps I can put a different perspective to a handful of thinking people there - and they might pass that on - christianity started like that and so did communism - and so did AIDS come to think of it.......oops I am wandering again

I am sure that a lot of the argy bargy that Carolyn and I had was culture based - she can be very loud - and Americans are - and we see that as aggression. She comes home from work and says she can't understand her co-workers because they 'speak so quietly'. So there is one difference and there are hundreds !

Sometimes she tells me to 'shut my yap' which apparently is not that offensive in Wisconsin but is fighting talk in the UK.. a bit like going to Tenerife and saying 'your mother' to a Canarian

So despite what our yanquis say on here, the cultural differences are many - they might not seem huge, but in the domestic setting they can be a problem and relationships are hard enough anyway - but, like Florida, we have to see it in the round and look to the other positives which other couples don't have.

alan

Edited by saywhat, 22 May 2007 - 02:09 AM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2007-05-22 02:08:00