biggish data

Exactly - why is it ok for you to do it, but we can't? I guess because we're nationalistic Americans.

I'm quite happy to criticize the US whenever its warranted. The fact that I'm having trouble finding fault in this situation - other than O's bumblings (which I believe I larfed at previously in this thread), and some stupid comments by congressman here or there - isn't my fault. I suppose I don't find the victims on the rig or the Gulf Coast residents feeling the effects as having done something wrong - sorry!

What we 'guys' get homeland security about is someone like you who sees fault around every corner and a conspiracy of sorts every time you turn around. But what I'm starting to comprehend now is that this is due to how you view America and Americans - in very low esteem. Frankly I'm shocked that you ever married 'one of us'. I still contend she must have no idea how contemptible you find us to be.

Tracy that is just ridiculous

Because I dont like a congressman you say I don't like ALL Americans
Because I don't like too much nationalism, you say I hate America
You imply that if my wife is a good American, she should leave me
Are you sure you are posting in a balanced way or are you seized by nationalism and going over the top ?

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 13:33:00

Better question would be 'why did you break immigration law for 14 years to be here?'

Who did that ?

I came here on a GC in 2007

and I didnt get born in Kenya either

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 13:30:00

Where did I say that?

Dealing with the aftermath is a bit more than what a CEO says. I brought that up only because it was an example of the callousness that you so frequently accuse ALL Americans of.

Truly Alan - does your wife know the depths of your hatred of all things American (and Americans in general)? Or does she not care because she's the one exception to your otherwise quite solid rule?

You ascribe the word 'all' to me and then you use it yourself.

You were wrong both times and have no information on that , and you exagerrated to try and score a point.

If a personal cannot find a Congressman's actions revolting without being branded an enemy of America who hates all things American, then where is the fairness in that ?

This is the kind of prickly defensive nationalism that the world complains about

All the BRITS on here are quite happy to slag off the UK where they deserve it and make huge lists of things that are wrong with the UK

But mention ONE thing about the US and you guys get all homeland security about it - collective paranoia

Edited by saywhat, 17 June 2010 - 01:06 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 13:06:00

Trompe is right - I don't remember that. I wasn't exactly 5 (bless her but probably not quite as up on world affairs as I would need to be to have remembered it.

If there was no anti American sentiment flowing at the time, then I guess it was either for the reason Trompe suggested (people not so prone to that reaction at the time), or perhaps the company handled the aftermath way better than BP has handled this.

I think everyone can agree that accidents happen - yes, even the BP one - but how you react and handle it after the fact says a lot.

So 167 Brits being killed doesn't matter as long as the US Public relations officer chooses his words better than Tony Hayward - typical - all for the show - all fur coat and no knickers

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 12:54:00

Trompe is right - I don't remember that. I wasn't exactly 5 (bless her but probably not quite as up on world affairs as I would need to be to have remembered it.

If there was no anti American sentiment flowing at the time, then I guess it was either for the reason Trompe suggested (people not so prone to that reaction at the time), or perhaps the company handled the aftermath way better than BP has handled this.

I think everyone can agree that accidents happen - yes, even the BP one - but how you react and handle it after the fact says a lot.

The history of the US is one of isolationism and nationalism - perhaps that is the reason why the UK can accept an American company killing of a 167 of it's citizens as an accident, but the US cannot accept 11 of it's citizens being killed in an accident but rather some foreign devil who has to be beaten to the max. The congressman just said that this would not have happened if an American company had been drilling the well and does Tony Hayward not feel any shame
The US CEO of BP was told by an Japanese American Congressman - 'in my culture we would be given a knife and told to commit hari kiri'
He actually invited the CEO to commit suicide in a public hearing. What the hell kind of country is this ?

Edited by saywhat, 17 June 2010 - 12:51 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 12:50:00

I was actually watching Auntie Beeb America (who incidentally report no anti-British sentiment in spite of speaking in RP while visiting all 4 states affected by the spill )

I havent seen any anti BRIT stuff by Americans either
Just Mr O who overstepped the line with my company

It's one thing to demand that BP pay for XYZ but the guy is running the company by sheer muscle - saying the CEO should be fired and setting dividend policy in a UK company etc - extra judicial bullying

Imagine gordon brown socialist leader doing the same with goldman sachs or any other American company - they would say we will pay legitimate claims but until you get a seat on the board you can't fire executives etc

I was looking fwd to voting for O in 2012 but this plus the stupid police thing - he has had it with me now - abuse of power

Edited by saywhat, 16 June 2010 - 08:27 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-16 20:27:00

You must be watching different news coverage than the rest of us then

You must be watching FOX
There are lots of gulf holiday adverts on cnn msnbc etc showing clean beaches and the fishermen are pushing their shrimps in every interview with anderson cooper

If I was a journalist, I wouldn't want to go unaffected beaches - I would go to a boom where a pelican have dived into the collected oil.

In the Braer spill the only animal harmed was an otter run over by a journalist car !

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-16 20:16:00

I wonder what the breakdown is between people whose livelihoods and way of life are already ruined, compared to people whose pensions might take a hit?

This time next year it will be all cleaned up and they will have scooped the 20 billion plus plus plus as well.
Nobody cares about pensioners - the existing ones are going to die soon anyway and you will never get old - right ?

My objection is not to compo but the pres telling the company to fire the CEO and interfering with dividend policy and all this about boot on their necks. I thought that stuff just happened in china.

The shrimpers say their shrimps are fine and are selling em. The tourist areas say come on down its clean. Somebody isn't telling it straight.

Just because the American rig that killed 167 men was years ago doesn't mean it's not significant and a useful comparison as to how American companies were treated in similar circumstances

Accidents happen in all technical industries - challenger shuttle or the air france plane that broke apart out of brazil etc etc etc. If we start witch hunts every time then companies will prefer to operate elsewhere

BP are a fine company and I have invested in them for 30 years. It's ok for their competitors to sit in a row and slag them off but they are no better and it might be them next time.

I want to hear about CAMERON who made the failed valve , and TRANSOCEAN owners of the rig and HALLIBURTON the concrete sealers - all of whom are involved and who are taking a low profile and getting away with it. Contractors have liability too

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-16 20:05:00

Standard Oil? Amoco? My stock shares are called BP Amoco.

The company is called BP - it took over Amoco many years ago

BP's Shareholders are 39% US AND 40% UK - ie equally split

Obama will hurt as many americans and their pensions as he does Brits

He is running it like he can say who pays dividends and which CEO can be fired and putting his heel on their necks etc

Russia runs their economy more independently than this

Where is the law ? Where are the courts ?

BP could walk away and let BP North America (owned 100% by BP) go into receivership. No future profits to pay claims, no escrow fund and plug the leak yourselves we are offski - they could.

Mr O should be careful about pushing too hard

Edited by saywhat, 16 June 2010 - 07:21 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-16 19:21:00

I have to revive this thread to say - I read an article on BBC's website today and was really shocked by the comments readers had left. While us Yanks are mad at BP, it seems a lot of Blighters don't find any fault in BP for this because we drive SUVs and the rig was American made (was it? I'm not even sure).

I don't really get the ire there, truly. I had hubby read some of them and he called them right tosspots, and also pointed out that he'd like to see how they reacted if similar happened off the UK shore with a rig under the guidance of a US petroleum company.

They don't feel that Obama has a 'right' to hold BP accountable financially. Honestly, it baffled me.

an american rig - (occidental petroleum)blew up in british waters and killed 167 men...

you can't even remember the anti- american hoohar so praps there wasn't any ?
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Piper_Alpha

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-16 19:06:00

I do hope that the government will put out some sort of statement that there will be no mental anguish lawsuits allowed. But then again, you're going to get people who live on the coast who will bring up a lawsuit for the declining value of their homes, or some idgit who will try to claim that the smell of crude oil has irreparably disturbed her psyche. Our civil legal system is really embarassing.

It'll probably take years to work through. I quite like suing companies actually. I did it twice and prosecuted and won both times.
They really deserved it. £750 the first time and £175 the second time. Judge Judy eat your heart out !
Yes seeing where the limit of liability is will be so interesting but BP will hold the line and all the American oil companies will help em politically too because it could be them next. This time next year it will be all forgotten except by the greens and the shrimp industry will be shrimping and the drillers will be drilling and the UK will be holding hands with the USA in a brand new war somewhere.

oh and my BP shares will be almost back to evens

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 19:07:00

It appears that my pension is quite heavily invested in BP. But in the long run, I'm not too worried. I would be if I were looking to retire in the next 3-5 years, but seeing as retirement is probably 20-22 years off, I'm not too overly concerned. But with that, I must keep in mind the horribly litigious nature of the U.S.. I do think that when they finish the inquiry, that the cost to clean up this disaster should be taken from Transoceanic, Halliburton and BP, according to the proportion of liability in which they are culpable for.

Totally agree

but establishing blame % - that's the easy bit - finding the line for what is a direct cost will be tricky as everybody will be claiming - even models who can't be photographed on the beach any more and anderson cooper for getting oil on his shoes.

-and Mr O will be egging them on as they are all voters and I don't think he cares about anything else

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 15:59:00

You don't seem to get it. In the case of a natural disaster like Hurricane Katrina, that is the duty of the government to lead the cleanup after. In the case of a corporate blunder that results in a disaster, it is the duty of the corporation who caused it to clean up. There is no way that BP, transoceanic, or Halliburton will be able to prove force majeure on this one.

It will be interesting to see how far the liability will ripple though - I think it will just be direct costs. If someone in Maine is so distressed at the images of pelicans that they have a nervous breakdown, can they sue ?
How about a shop that sells shrimping nets and who's takings are down ?
The liability dividing line is where it's at and that's why BP shares are up a lot for 2 days running. Top of the list for 2 days.

It's crazy on CNN - they have a row of shrimp fishermen saying it's the end of the world and they need money now.
Then when they are asked whether people should eat shrimp they say "oh we have lots of fine shrimp totally unaffected it's superb and no problem"

Same fishermen - same interview.

That's why BP are saying all justified claims and O is saying they have to be broken on the rack

40% of the shares are held by Brits and 39% by americans and same for dividend too of course.

tax take of the two governments is similar - so for every 40 billion mr O takes out of BP's hide with his nasties, half of it is loss to the US pensioner/tax payer anyway.

He doesn't care if it gets him re-elected and a win in November too.

You don't think the USCIS is reading this do you ? aaarrrggghhhh !

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 15:43:00

Try harder.

Sunshine is the best disinfectant for your cat's tray

When it comes to cat trays - try Sunshine from BP - you can't lick it !

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 13:45:00

He's within his rights to invite the Chairman and Chief Exec to the White House, and it would do them well to attend. As Louis Brandeis once said, sunshine is the best disinfectant.

Tried sunshine on the cat's litter tray - it didn't work

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 12:59:00

Obama is an anti-business, immature, man-child. Of course he's going to condemn BP and any other big business so he can look like the savior of the working class (who are now out of work because of his deep water drilling moratorium).

Anyone notice that he said he didn't want to talk to Hayward b/c corporate types will just tell him what he wants to here, yet he wants to have "dialogue" with someone like Ahmadinejad?

He really needs to wake up and get a reality check.

apparently he wants to talk to Hayward and the Swedish Chairman of BP in the white house

No doubt he will have a big timmy mallet ready for the cameras

Hayward will probably say - "didn't we burn the white house down in the 1812 war"

http://www.brilliant...es/ozone-05.jpg

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 12:44:00

Unfortunately like most British things, the public moaned about how terrible it was for 5 seconds and then forgot about it, going about eating their chocolate anyway so it obviously doesn't matter to them that much.

British apathy is a world beating product but is presented as tolerance.
What else explains the election of a monkey in newcastle or screaming lord such's support ?

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 12:28:00

Incidentally the "boot on the throat" comment was Robert Gibbs, not Obama

Sack Robert Gibbs !

Boot on his throat while giving him his firing notice !

I would pay to see that - all proceeds to the clean up fund

ps elmo - down to 2 !

Edited by saywhat, 11 June 2010 - 12:10 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 12:08:00

I think some British politicians are being just as "political" as Obama which some of their overblown statements, which plays well for hysterical headlines in the Daily Mail. Taking BP to task is not the same as taking Britain to task - when did BP represent the country of Great Britain? If Exxon had done the same thing in the North Sea and a slick was coming ashore on the pristine shores of Scotland the knee-jerk Anti-Americanism would be likely be louder than any anti-British statements you might have here. Incidentally, the BBC America reporter in the Gulf was asked last night if he felt any anti-British backlash. He had been to 4 states affected by the spill and said he'd experience nothing negative.

Besides, if you call KFC by the name it was know for over 60 years - Kentucky Fried Chicken - are you blaming Kentucky for your obesity?

Luckily for us and unluckily for them, we have the example of the Piper Alpha disaster where Occidental Petroleum (a US Company) owned and operated a rig in the British North Sea which blew up and killed many people - 167 people not 11

I don't remember the Prime minister insisting that OXY cancel it's dividend or that the OXY CEO be sacked or references to putting his boot heel on their throat.

Here is the wiki:

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Piper_Alpha

Edited by saywhat, 11 June 2010 - 11:41 AM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 11:39:00

Um, it is still a plc with its main listing in London, no matter how many subsidiaries in foreign countries it has, and how many secondary listings exist for it.

now 4

Yes it changed it's name to BP many years ago to emphasise it's multi national spread. Mr O
insists on calling it 'British Petroleum' to externalise it and demonize the foreigner which is a politician's tactic as old as humanity
At the moment the rage is twixt the UK's politicians + business leaders versus Mr O, but if someone doesn't 'put their foot on the neck' of the rhetoric, it can spread into the two populations and force them to take nationalistic positions.

I can understand why he is doing it, but I think he is as bad as Tony Hayward in choosing the wrong words which are inflaming the situation (no pun intended) rather than reassuring people that the problem will be fixed

When the relatives of the dead went to the White House yesterday, there was not one single reference on any channel that they were all employees of TransOcean. It was just BP all the time.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 10:48:00

Well, I've never felt that things that the UK prime minister says about us reflect how Joe Q. Average Blighter may actually feel, so I don't get why UKers would think that O's opinion is therefore our opinion. If he has a problem with the UK, then that's HIS problem. Am I happy about that? No. But there's nothing I can really do except hope my UK brothers and sisters give the rest of us the benefit of the doubt.

What a freaking tool! I think a de-friending sesh would be in order for someone THAT patently ignorant.

Good stuff Tracy and thanks for the support for the special relationship. any thinking Brit/American knows the two countries need each other and can't afford a serious scrap.

I am having a wobble this week as I am intending to apply for naturalization soon and I am getting cold feet - I will set up a thread later to test the water. Not just bp or winston churchill or Mr O

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-11 09:58:00

The American company Union Carbide plant at Bhopal blew up and killed 15,000 people and affected around 500,000 people

The managers skipped to the US and the US government refused to extradite them

ANY high tech vehicle or plane or plant can fail

US nuclear submarines, everyone's oil wells, space shuttles, manufacturing plants - they all fail - so will your car.

It is common to all countries and with hindsight, all are someone's fault and all are preventable

We don't have hindsight and we live in a high tech world - so we shouldn't be so ready to bay for blood.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-10 22:00:00

Where, in the press? Probably the only place. We haven't had one bit of anti British sentiment from anyone we've come in contact with - obviously kind of hard to hide hubby's heritage with that accent.

I know some Americans are not the brightest bulbs in the box, but I think most folks of average intelligence know that a British corporation's failings have little to do with the country or the people there in general. In fact, I'm sure lots of Brits are ashamed of how BP has acted too.

Its just generally not in the nature of Yanks to dislike and malign Blighters, despite our rocky beginnings. In fact, just the opposite. Everyone I know and have met since hubby has been here are curious and fascinated about where he comes from and what it's like there - as well as his impressions of America. Never has one person made a negative comment to us about England. Maybe that's just where we live though - I dunno.

nope not regular Americans - its Mr O

It just oozes

Some say it's about us toasting his gdad's toes or something in the Mau-mau rebellion

I don't know but I have picked up on his anti Brit stuff now for a couple of years

Could be my antenna coz I am so sensitive er hum - but I don't think he is any fan of the mother country

I mean the BP chief said some really stupid things but Mr O is going over the top saying he should be fired and he wants the BP div stopped and he has his foot on their neck etc

UK is up in arms about it

try googling obama uk bp criticism - you will be amazed

Edited by saywhat, 10 June 2010 - 07:56 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-10 19:55:00

Frankly, I have no clue since I'm still sitting on a train headed south from Canada with only an iPhone to keep me connected to the world. (Grim thought, that.) Tony Hayward was a big mistake when he won the chief exec crown, that whole incident with Lord Browne was a storm in a teacup. Browne may have made a mistake in his choice of boyfriend, and a mistake in trying to cover it all up, but he was a damn sight more respected in the City than Hayward at the time. How bittersweet to feel vindicated in my hunch that going with Hayward was going to end in tears.

If the US ends up alone, they'll have done it to themselves. I spend time frequently telling US Investors that you can't act in a British boardroom like you do in a US one; cultural sensitivities and nuances need to be heeded. The American blowhard who steps into a meeting ranting and raving will be written off as a lunatic and ignored. Obama: take heed.

Yeah your right about Tony - Browney would never have said that because he was more sensitive and very good to his mother like what they are. (joke !!!)
So I am not really pro Tony - just anti O for saying he should be sacked. CEO of another country's biggest company and that country is your biggest ally ? jeez O I know the Brits won't be voting in November but they have long memories and they can be much more vindictive than the Americans but spread it over a longer time frame so they don't seem it..

We were always amazed when we had big to-dos with our American colleagues and it was all smiles and forgotten next day. We don't forgive so easily coz we are small minded and snotty. (I have been told)

A little story:
One of our backwoods Directors from Georgia stood up in at a meeting and said 'I am going to the men's room'. A Brit Director said "Would you just answer that question first".

The Georgia guy said :

"I can go to the men's room now or I can answer your question and shix my pants at the same time - what do you want me to do ?"

Good job he didn't ask me

Cultural diffs between England and Georgia ? You bet.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-10 19:33:00

Alan my love, you put it better than most. Part of what I find distasteful about this whole predicament is the overreaching being attempted by the US government into the affairs of Britain plc. The appropriate bodies to put pressure on BP are its shareholders, the UK government and the regulatory bodies there. I'm sorry if that sounds callous, but the internal workings of a UK domiciled public company with its primary listing in London should be handled in the appropriate venue, and that ain't the White House.

(do I get another point?)

TWO .....7 to go....

I don't think people in the US know what's brewing over there.

I have googled OBAMA BP UK CAMERON and there is hell on. Cameron is trying to keep the lid on it but the London Mayor and Tebbit etc are foaming at the mouth and biting the carpet with rage. If somebody doesn't get hold of this soon, the US may be on their own when they go into Iran, north Korea, Venezuela, Texas, Paris, Somalia, Yemen, Mars, Arizona
I mean the Brits were hissed about GW but they had gone all fuzzy and warm and pat on the back for Mr O. All that is blown now and all this revenge for his granddad could hurt both countries if it isn't stopped. I think Tony Hayward should call for his resignation and a cut in Presidential pay.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-10 19:10:00

What worries me is the undercurrent of hatred for Britain
Something to do with O's granddad being waterboarded by the Brits which we know isn't torture anyway coz ####### Cheney says so.
I picked up on this a couple of years back so this just confirms it
I hope Tony Hayward who O wants sacked, stands his ground at the White House meeting.

Imagine the Queen telling Goldman Sachs they can't pay a dividend until they paint the outside of their London office. Hey you get offa my cloud. The US doesn't own the whole world - yet

I may have to write to Mr O and remind him of his Yorkshire roots (The Crabtree family) on his mother's side.

I wonder if he gives a stuff about his mother's side - I will ask sgt James Crowley

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-10 18:48:00

Agree with you on this. It can be very difficult sometimes to think dispassionately when emotions understandably are running very high, but the longer term impact of a BP demise should not be ignored. Should there be fines, prosecutions, heads on sticks? Absolutely. But to destroy this company would be against the economic interests of both the US and UK.

nine to go...

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-10 10:23:00

BP shares up 13% today.

In order to clean the oil up, and pay UK tax and US tax and pay US and UK pensioners, and employ the South coast people, BP has to survive.

Those who would kill BP would just send oil prices up 3 times and ruin big chunks of the two economies and finacially hurt many pensioners

Edited by saywhat, 10 June 2010 - 09:49 AM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-10 09:45:00

I was one of the most passionate Obama advocates, even donated money to his campaign. I believed his promise of change, such as a public healthcare option (didn't happen), believed that we would get the hell out of the wars (didn't happen; $1,000,000,000,000.00 of taxpayers' money spent so far), believed in immigration reform (didn't happen), believed in banking reform (didn't happen), in short, I believed in a man who would kick ####, right away, while showing big corporations the erected middle finger. None of this turned out to be the case.

I know Bush was a crook, a moron, completely incompetent, deeply embedded in the corporate landscape, helping his buddies in oil and warfare out.

What almost makes Obama worse is that he has no stand at all. His balls are in a glass jar at home, and he is as incompetent as Bush was. Sure, he's more intelligent, better educated, and most of all gives better speeches. But what levels this out is that he betrayed so many of us who stood up for him and believed what he promised yet never delivered. In my opinion Obama is a career politician, a multi-millionaire looking for popularity and buddies in every aisle.

Truthfully, I wish the Democrats would elect another Presidential candidate for 2012. Won't happen as well.

Not often I totally agree with a post coz I always have to get my own two penneth in - but I totally agree with every word of this and can't add to it

The guy is a politician like Blair - he is a write off

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-10 09:42:00

Of course Mr O is over the line. Notice he deflects all of the blame over to BP and takes no responsibility for the government's complicity in letting BP get away with cutting corners and then the government's irresponsibility to not begin mitigating the damages according to a plan drawn up in 1994. Both sides are clearly at fault for the mess getting to where it is.

But this is not surprising. Obama has clearly shown that he absolutely hates business. This is the most anti-business administration I think this country has ever seen.

In the UK they would shelve the criticism until the enquiry - it's frustrating but they have this fairness thing going. Could be that there is blame for US gov and BP and Hallibuton and transocean with one of them catching the majority of it.

What if the court said 85% transocean for not fixing the rubber seal that got damaged one month before. The BP guy could have been relying on the blow out preventer and not dreamed that Transocean would leave it with no seal for a whole month.

I think Mr O should have waited for the enquiry. Sure the BP CEO said something that sounds stupid but which one of us can take that sort of pressure and say a billion things and not get one thing wrong ever. Even MR O had to apologize for ragging the white police officer who had a run in with his friend. He made a mistake and apologized and Tony Hayward made a mistake and apologized - how come Tony Hayward's apology is not accepted but Mr O's is.

I was an Obama fan originally but he is going all Tony Blair - will we ever learn about these charismatics ?

The father of the NHS Aneurin Bevan was about as stinky and scruffy and unpersonable and repulsive as they come - but he got the NHS set up and did more for the country than all the rest of em put together. What did Blair do ? Now there is a lesson.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-09 19:32:00

The UK papers are full of dismay over President Obama's 'aggressive rhetoric' about BP

eg 'Keep my foot on their throat'

and 'He wouldn't be working for me' ie sack him.

and the pressure to stop the dividend to UK pension funds

Virtually all British Pension funds are heavily invested in this company and this electioneering stuff is going to hurt them and the tax take of the UK and the US and put the gulf oil workers out of a job.

Is Mr O just posturing for November ? - after all, none of this stops a drop of oil coming up. What about the American accident at piper alpha in the north sea - the Brits didn't get all racist about that

What about the Space shuttle deadly failures - it didn't stop that program and NASA wasn't vilified and nobody put a boot on their neck

I have 2 UK private pensions and BP shares so that's my interest - but also I am proud of BP as a very highly rated international company who have drilled 30,000 wells with no spills

I think MR O has gone over the line - what do you think ?

cop this >

http://www.telegraph...pensioners.html

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-09 18:45:00

You are just out for trouble - why don't you go to one of the trashy sites on line where you can use any language you want and just pop back and forth at people.

I have no interest in letting you work your excess whatever off on me

This is my last message to you on this personal attack stuff you want to engage in.

I will only post in response to people making points on the subject

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 17:08:00

You are doing an awful lot of work for nothing.

Why don't you just continue with a new thought about the subject (not me)

and please don't use words like 'shite' when talking about other members posts or they might get tetchy with you and we know you don't like that

Back to the subject time ?

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 16:43:00

Show the post with your phantom argument. Enough feigned insult

I may find your pov quite skewered, and I've lost quite a bit of respect for you throughout this whole thing, but I wouldn't need to exploit any 'weakness' of yours, even if said weakness is that you resort to cheap shots. They exploit you, actually, and do you no favors whatsoever. Temper tantrums on the over 50 crowd don't really do much. Actually, they don't do much for anyone over 3, but I kind of expected more from you. *shrug*

I am actually not insulted by your insult. I am insulted by your attempt, but that's besides the point. I'm actually smiling that my challenge thwarted you so much, you felt the need to create this diversion.

Now, let's unmuddy these waters if you dare, and get back on track! Show us all the post with your phantom argument!

I am not going to spend my afternoon going back through all those pages just to comply with your demands. You really are like a dog with a bone and you are fixated.
I am telling you for certain sure that the post was made that 'the US is one of the only countries with free speech'. I laughed at the weird English. Do you remember now ?

Now instead of continuing your foaming steaming crusade which is not conducive to a calm debate, why don't you make another point - surely you are not one of those who feeds off the posts of others and never contributes a thought yourself ?

Edited by saywhat, 17 June 2010 - 04:01 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 16:00:00

I'm also in the camp that spouses of American citizens (at least) need not have any more "loyal" feelings towards the US than the desire to be geographically with their other half. In that, I agree that if it is convenient for the non usc spouse to become a citizen, then they should.

Alan, has Julian haxx0red your account??

Hey I am holding back - as soon as someone starts calling other posters 'human reproductive parts' or starts talking human excrement, it makes me want to push back. Oh dear I have revealed my weakness - watch her try and exploit it.

Thanks for the first half of your post too - it's reassuring that others have a more rounded and mature and less extreme view of the subject.

and thanks for actually sticking to the subject rather than ....

Well hrmm, the fact that I've asked you to produce proof of origin of your fantasy argument, and you have yet to do so actually proves that you're talking shite. I'm not calling you trailer trash, I'm saying you talk rubbish, which has now been proven since you still cannot produce a link that I've been asking about for several posts now.

The fact that I used a vulgar word does not equal a personal insult as to where I live or what that may imply about me. It's a cheap shot, one of a flailing, drowning man with an obvious need to deflect the argument because you cannot back up what you say. You have insulted people in this thread who have, imo, bent over backwards to express themselves civilly and cordially to you. You have been asked for apologies, of which you have never given, even though you freely admit you were too harsh AND you've misread posts. You have proven yourself incapable of being adult enough to have a disagreement without resorting to the cheap shots. For that, I pity you.

Doesn't wash with me - this is full of what you said...

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 15:39:00

It really says a lot about you to have to resort to such cheap shots and insults. Talk about a need for finishing school! Irony alert!

It says volumes about you that you characterize others posts with talk of human excrement.

hypocrisy alert !

Are you ready to make a point about the subject yet or do you just come on here to do abuse ?

Edited by saywhat, 17 June 2010 - 03:23 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 15:22:00

...which, said post, you completely misunderstood and I told you as much. In fact, context alone should have told you that, but whatever. I said 'America was one of the only countries where it's ok to bash us for being overly patriotic' or some such.

So basically, you're debating claims which have only ever been mentioned by you.

Back up your claim or be shown for talking shite.

A nice European finishing school would have corrected your vocabulary I am sure.
Now go vac your trailer if you have no points to make

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 15:13:00

Point out ONE post here where anyone claimed we were the ONLY country with free speech. I challenge you.

The exact quote was 'one of the only ones' read back - I am sure you have time

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 15:06:00

Honestly, if you have 'doubts' or 'wobbles' -- you probably aren't ready to take up another country's citizenship and make that 'commitment.'

You will know whether 'batting for the other team; is the 'right decision' for you (based on whatever your reasoning is -- practical, emotional, political) instead of trying to get strangers on internet forums to convince you, one way or another.

Actually, the vjers have helped me enormously with my thinking on this - especially the one who says she takes her US Nationality and swearing to god etc very lightly - and all the Nationalists and deep spiritualists and shaking will emotional pride crowd can safely be ignored.

I have figured out my course of action and I will do the nationality thing for the security of my own assets and the life I have here. I will obey all laws and pay all taxes and denounce all traitors. If the US ever goes down the same road as the third reich, I will renounce nationality and join the international coalition and true Americans to overthrow it.

That's the plan. Some people say even if the US becomes the 4th Reich, I am on the hook for life and should not renounce nationality for any reason. I reject that as I would reject an unfaithful spouse to whom I had made vows.

Edited by saywhat, 17 June 2010 - 03:03 PM.

Captain Oates

Male

England

2010-06-17 15:02:00