biggish data

I asked my very Russian wife who is the better house cleaner and she agreed, surprisingly, that the Ukraine woman was. My own wife is very clean concerning personal hygiene and clothing but just a so-so house cleaner. And her household organizational skills are bad...very bad. I spend too much time looking for things that she puts in the oddest places. Drives me crazy...and has caused most of our disputes. I live in a 980 sq. ft. 2-bedroom condo...so it's not like she has a big house to deal with. I've had to step in and oversee things in order to restore some order as I let things slide too long. But it's an ongoing struggle. My wife is constantly asking where her keys are? Where her cell phone is? Etc. Etc.

My wife also claims that the Ukraine woman is the boss of the marriage. From what Brad and Gary have shared, it sounds like that may be true. Happily, that has not shown up in my relationship. I'm not one who finds bossy women charming. I could have found that here at home without too much searching around. She says, too, that Ukrainian women are more "sneaky" and this is part of their technique to control things around them.

Sorry guys...if I have to hear about dirty Russians, you guys can hear about sneaky, controlling Ukrainians. What is the truth? Probably these stereotypes don't mean much beyond casual observations and anecdotes. There is so much diversity in the former Soviet empire, how can we really classify women based on area of residence or heritage of birth? There are too many other variables...including blind luck...in what kind of woman we end of living with.

VV - first let me say that I really appreciate the tactful response here :thumbs:

I would agree that a Ukrainian woman definitely asserts herself as "boss". It takes a lot of backbone to interrupt that process, and I cannot say that my spine is strong enough (jury is still out - for maybe the next 20 years). I will also agree to sneaky - but in a family strengthening way. Vika says that there is no sense arguing with a man that has a full head of steam on (or a drunk on) for example.

I definitely disagree with any post that suggests that I say Russians are dirty, or anything else. I have a boatload of experience with Ukrainians and Belarusians, but zero with Russians.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-27 19:58:00

I am going to remember that one! We have this conversation every so often. She made the comment that one of her friends is "Yudish" I said "No she is not, she goes to Church with her husband every Sunday" Alla says "She is Yudish" What? "Completely Yudish, it doesn't matter what church she goes to...she is Yudish" How do you know? "Her name... and look at her, she is Red Yudish, completely" Red Yudish? "Yes, not black Yudish, she is not from Isreal, they are black Yudish"

We were in church last Sunday, when Vika nodded toward a friend of hers and said "her husband, the guy next to her, is jewish". He seemed to be participating in the mass, so I asked how she thought that was possible. She said he is an Orthodox Christian, but jewish. I said "what?" :rofl:

Edited by Brad and Vika, 26 November 2010 - 06:54 AM.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-26 06:53:00

And yes, they consider Jews to be Jews, not Russian or Ukrainian. I always considered it a religion, they consider it a nationality.

It can be confusing.

We have had a couple of conversations around that subject. A person from Israel is considered Israeli (even if they are Christian). An American Jew is an American when talking about nationality. One of those situations where we look at each other and say "what?" a few times :lol:

I asked Vika if she would consider herself Orthodox OR Ukrainian, and she answered "both of course". I said "exactly". She said "what?". :rofl:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-25 22:13:00

Yes, hopefully you got from my post that I was speaking tongue in cheek just a bit. Yepper...Alla is Russian, says so on her BC and passport, her mother was born in Russia, transferred to Ukraine as an engineer. Most people in Donetsk are of Russian nationality.

That is what I meant :lol:

If my parents come here from India, and I am born here, I am still American. If they immigrate to England, they (and I) are UK citizens, right? Only in the FSU does some one born in one country claim nationality in another, without any one batting an eye.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-25 16:16:00

Gary, isn't your wife really of full Russian heritage? That's the impression I got from some of your past posts. Perhaps I got it wrong.

I think lots of Ukrainians have Russian relatives and ancestry. Many of the forty and above crowd there, and in Belarus, prefer to think of themselves as ethnic Russians even if they were born in Ukraine. Can't speak for Alla. Vika has Russian relatives, and is from Eastern (Russified) Ukraine, but is adamantly Ukrainian. Ditto Gary's comment about stinger and possesiveness though.

Edited by Brad and Vika, 25 November 2010 - 10:20 AM.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-25 10:19:00

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year RUB

s novum godum, Brad and Vika

Happy New Year to you too Amber!

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-12-30 08:56:00

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year RUB

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, RUB! Wishing everyone great success in the next year on their Visa Journeys!

We're getting ready to apply for my wife's citizenship in January so we're both pretty eager to start the new year. Then after that, the VJ starts all over again as we will begin working on bringing her mother to the USA also.

Please keep us informed.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-12-27 14:42:00

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year RUB

Vika and I wish you all a very happy season, whenever you celebrate Christmas (Orthodox or other). May the new year bring you everything you wish for, and everything you and your family need. May you be close in spirit, even if distance separates you. May you be rich in your relationships, despite USCIS driving you to the poorhouse :lol:

God Bless,

Brad

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-12-25 11:33:00

Kiev Apartment?

Try this one kievrent. We used it a while back, and they have English speaking staff and drivers.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-12-30 19:56:00

Don't whistle in the house.

Now Ukraine is terrible. Who knows why? Just another "thermal". Tomorrow it will be Ok and she will deny she ever said that.

I think selective memory might be a common cultural trait.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2011-01-11 07:34:00

I had to dig up this thread as this is definitely in the "I can't believe she said that" category.

So Alla is saying last night how expensive it is to live here compared to Ukraine. This was also during one of our discussions about me retiring and how much income we would have if I did so. Blah, blah, blah. Her uptake as usual was "So it is enough, maybe not just to go fly anywhere we want anytime...but enough, yes"

I said..."So we can just live in Donetsk for maybe $500 per month for both of us and you can teach English and then we will have enough to fly anywhere when we want"

NO! Ukraine is a horrible place.

"Vooooooooowhat?????!!!!"

Yes, I will find you dead on the street and no one will even pick you up, here they will at least take you to the hospital and call me.

"Are you serious?"

Yes...we will not live in Ukraine. NO WAY!

"So why do we keep the flat there? I thought it was so we can live there"?

No, it is for visiting. It is cheap so why not?

"OK"

No way...live in Ukraine! Are you crazy? Especially Donetsk, it is just horrible there, so dirty. The air is dirty the water is dirty the street is dirty. Even my mom says "You got out, do not come back!"

"Voooooooowhat?"

No way, don't talk stupid. If you want to live somewhere else it should be warmer, Ukraine is not warmer either.

"Tuscany?"

Sure, if it is warmer and I can teach English.

Then we went to bed, she is still sleeping, she had some wine...maybe it didn't really happen.

I don't know the words, but the toon sure sounds familiar :whistle:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2011-01-09 17:08:00

So she comes home from class last night, it was cold and raining. I hear the garage door opener and a couple minutes later she comes through the door into the house after dropping her shoes and coat at the shoe station before entering. I asked her "So how is the garage door working out for you?"

"Great! I love it! Push the button. I love pushing the button. It is a good life...push the button and everything happens. You should always make sure I can push buttons"

I guess that means it is better than walking from the bus in the rain and going up 5 flights of stairs and taking her shoes off in the stairway. D'ya think?

Gee - I don't know.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-12-01 09:03:00

They say these things and I think they would deny it 30 seconds later.

Absolutely :lol:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-26 06:49:00

And there it is :rofl:

But try TELLING HER that very thing before she says it. For you newbies - that is totally a joke.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-25 22:16:00

No way. and both the boys say they will live here also. So far, they plan to live with US.

No doubt wht their mother is on guard against GC groupies. :lol:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-25 10:22:00

Agreed. No way. And I wouldn't want her to really.

I was shocked enough that she said the US was better (in some ways), and she would rather live here. Not looking for any direct slams against the motherland soon though :lol:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-22 16:50:00

Given a long enough time line, she may even come to "foooooooo!" on Ukraine.

Never gonna happen

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-21 08:14:00

my husband says the opposite- he watches the news and rants about the abundant crime and dirty streets here. he can't wait to take me to see Belarus and it's awesomeness. i, too, am excited to go; however, i wonder if he will feel the same once he's there...

He won't. A little teary for nostalgia and family's sake, but never again the same. And he won't like that. Sorry.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-19 16:30:00

Alla found the silver lining!

I think that taking the word of other Russian speakers as gospel is pretty normal behaviour for an FSU gal. Fortunately it works in Gary's favor here.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-16 07:48:00

If it is an Angelina Jolie movie, it is an even bet. Why does that cause a flare up of channel 1+1? Alla is proud of it..."Look how wonderful she looks...she is Russian, you can tell" Angelina is Russian?

Actually, Alla's friends tend to tell her the bad stuff, or so it would seem. She gets word that the economy is worse, etc. Donetsk is just crawling with prostitutes, or at least it was earlier this year. All "girls from the villages" becuse many of the mines shut down and the stell smelters closed. Makes for cleaner air but people in outlying areas lost their jobs. Actually Alla gets a bit depressed to see it and hear it and more happy she isn't still trying to make a living there.

Seems like you found the silver lining.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-13 09:47:00

That station's been silent for a while here too. Although, sometimes when there's lightning or solar flares or something it fires back up.

It would still be ok if I could identify the solar flares consistently. Best girlfriend is going to Ukraine in two weeks=flare (obviously), but watching an American movie, where a Russian acented actress appears in heels? Who can predict that? :lol:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-13 08:58:00

It's funny how they change their tune after THEY get "spoiled" a little, eh?

Right. I do appreciate the radio silence sometimes, intstead of the everything-is-better-in-Ukraine channel. I don't think that station plays here any more.

Edited by Brad and Vika, 12 November 2010 - 08:40 AM.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-12 08:39:00

Do you have a garage door opener with a button in her car? She used to ride a bus everywhere. Our first hjouse here had no garage so she slogged through the snow but it "isn't bad because it is only a few steps, not like in Ukraine" Then we got a house with a garage and now she has to have an automatic opener with a "button in her car". She is angling for a remote starter for her car, but it scares me. Attached garage...remote starter...Ukrainian woman. You figure it out. I think I prefer to just go out each morning OPEN the garage door and start her car for her. I predict a longer life expectancy

We started out with a garage opener. Vika used to tell me all the time how spoiled Americans are, and that she doesn't mind being out in the weather. Now I see a definite change (of action, with total silence about the subject) when it is raining or cold. She tends to head for cover just like the rest of us.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-12 06:59:00

Alla now gets agitated at the idea of busses. Not just inconvenienced but ANNOYED

**gasp** I think I see a pattern here :devil:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-10 21:56:00

Yes, they say "You Boss", and just when you start to believe it...

Irina (my ex) was the same. Everything was better in Russia. But when I would say, "OK, great, lets move to Russia" she would balk "it too hard live zere!". "why don't you want to live in Russia Honey?" "Cheap clothes here"

Vika used to complain all the time about the lack of busses - now that she has a car, she hates the busses in Ukraine, and raves about being able to go exactly to the shop she wants, when she wants.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-10 08:47:00

We have that same solution in our house!

My wife won't come out and say it...

"So do you remember back when you told me you'd never become a citizen and didn't really like it here and wanted to go home? What changed your mind?"

"Because I have new plan."

Always scheming. Always thinking of that next step. But, as I told her from day one, "this is how it's going to work." Guess which way it's been working?

I find it helpful to not point out that it was my plan to start with. I say that I am sure the new plan will work, and I am very happy with it - then move on :lol:

But honestly, living only in America was a plan she came up with all by her lonesome. Can't say enough how nice it is to have her clear up all that uncertainty.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-09 20:14:00

we may also go back to Ukraine but keep a place here when I retire and Alla teaches english, but I think it would not be for a long period and Alla now wnats to be a citizen first so she can always come back without a problem. But we will see. She is also saying (just tonight) that maybe she will find some ESL classes she can teach somewhere here in the US (hint, hint)

I see the angling and hinting too :lol:

Never an admission that she has changed her mind though.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-09 07:40:00

Sometimes it isn't just the opinion expressed, but the delivery that shocks.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-08 08:29:00

Sounds familiar. The first year she made the trip back, she couldn't wait to get to Ukraine. The second year she couldn't wait to get "home". Now we just took a trip around the US and she was saying the whole time "I want my bed, I want my kitchen..."

I overheard her telling her friends here, there is "no way" she could live in Ukraine again. She said she couldn't live a again without her car!

And now Segey has a girlfriend in Moscow and so when we were skyping today, Alla asks (joking) "So when you marry Daria where will you live?" he answered..."America! With you!"

Not a bit surprised at this point.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-07 22:50:00

Retro back two years ago with me.....

My wife (then fiance') tells me that although America is very nice, she would be happy for us to live in Ukraine, or anywhere close to Ukraine. She would jump at the chance for a (more) extended visit. You see, what I need to understand is that her family, most friends, and yes - her soul were all forever Ukrainian. She will always love Ukraine, and the family dacha was always going to be the best place on earth.

Now forward to a conversation in Odessa three weeks ago.....

We are sitting at Top Sandwich on Deribasovskaya (the one across from McDonald's). I take a breath, enjoying the sun and beautiful weather, and say casually that I could live this way all the time. Whoops!!!

My wife informs me that in no way were we EVER going to live in Ukraine under any circumstances. What was I thinking, bringing that subject up? Couldn't I SEE how much better our lives were in America? How could I even imagine just hanging around in Ukraine, making small money, all the rude service, no air conditioning, hot and cramped buses, small apartments, and the list went on. I was too stunned to reply. Sitting slack-jawed, I listened to my sweet half expound all the virtues of my country, and profoundly dis the motherland. She has absolutely no recall of all the homesickness, and the tears shed over her terrible loss, or the bleak prospect of living out her days in the home of the Big Mac. :rofl:

But the dacha still rocks :thumbs:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-07 22:31:00

First trip to Ukraine

We have a holiday tradition, where my wife prepares pieces of bread with cheese, tomatoes, etc. topped with the stinky fish.

Total number of little breads with stinky fish on top: 15.
Total number of little breads with stinky fish on top eaten by anyone other than my wife: 0.

Vika does this stuff too :lol:

I am finally to the point where I can sit at the same table while she chews fish fins, and can smell the stinky fish. Who says you can't teach an old, fat, bald dog a new trick :rofl:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2011-01-19 08:44:00

First trip to Ukraine

I got to see the wife suck an eyeball out of a carp (fish soup) at her parents dacha. That did it right then and there for me when it comes to eating fish over there.

Honestly there are some awesome restaurants that serve good fish in Odessa. Lots of great sushi too - if you are into that. The newest place we found is called Yakitoria, and is almost above the faux Irish pub called Mick O'Neal's (the 24 hour hangout for expats and MOB shoppers). Yakitoria is stylish and expensive (by Ukrainian standards), but serves really tasty sushi and cooked Japanese-style food.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2011-01-14 20:14:00

First trip to Ukraine

Never been to that particular resort, but it looks like fun. We did take the hot (jarko) Ukrainian train to Lvov once, and really enjoyed it. You are going to have an interesting and fun trip. Go with an open mind and be patient - she will be surprised at how much you like it.

Then when she arrives, show her Vegas and Disney World first thing :devil:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2011-01-14 08:22:00

Better luck this time around.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2011-02-01 09:25:00

How many of us would even be married at all to our present spouses if we had to "convince" someone it was "common sense" to marry them?

We both had to convince ourselves that it made sense first. I was a hard-sell :lol:

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-13 09:35:00

Still happens sometimes.

I told Alla about a thing at work, no big deal really , just a meeting with my boss in which I got to deliver information he really didn't like, but hey, he can handle the truth. So Alla asks "what did he say?" I said "nothing, he just LEFT" So tonight we talked about something else and she says "Well, what do you expect from an owner that just LAUGHS" What? "you said he just LAUGHED" What? "Voooooowhat do you mean Vooowhat? You told me that he laughed when you told him those other things!" Told you WHAT? "That TIM LAUGHED!" The light comes on finally....Aloechka, I said LEFT, not LAUGHED! "oh, never mind"

I get that all the time. Actually it effects us both. When Vika says "did you lock door from garage?", and I turn around on the highway and go home to demonstrate that the alarm will not go off if you open the garage door, to find that she meant the door FROM the garage to the house.... well we laugh about that stuff later.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-09 07:50:00

Maybe language isn't a deal breaker - but inability to communicate causes all sorts of trouble imo. First and foremost would be the initial understanding needed to agree you are right for each other. I agree that there are people who work around that. I also agree that age differences are not really an issue (just depends on the people). Thirty seven years seems big to me, but our seventeen years seems huge to some. Whatever works.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-06 09:34:00

I think the no games approach only comes after she's comfortable with you. In the building up stages there are many women who are very crafty and watch their emotions well to get what they want. I've seen women totally play guys for everything and the guys are too stupid (using the wrong head) to notice.

In "real" relationships the women will share every single little emotion. If they're not.... well, there you go.

So default to the flags:

I just can't make an interview yet, I am so nervous = stop, drop, and roll

Thanks for coming all this way to see me, but I am a good girl, so don't touch me = find the nearest exit and plan strategy

I need a few months, and $500 per month please = run as fast as possible to the exit

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-01 17:30:00

I can only say that a sincere Ukrainian woman will be exceedingly devoted to you and care about you more than you have imagined. She WILL make time for you every day and communicate with you as much as possible. If she doesn't, there is some problem going on that you should pay heed to. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a Ukrainain woman "not being that much into you". She is or she isn't. I simply cannot imagine a woman going to an unsuccessful interview and not mentioning it to her fiance for 5 days. Or 5 minutes.

Absolutely. If she even likes you, you will have no doubt of the fact. If there is a problem of any kind, you will have no doubt of that :lol:

. There is about a five second (if I am lucky) delay between Vika having an emotion and sharing it. I like this no games approach to communicating.

Brad and Vika

Male

Ukraine

2010-11-01 08:10:00