Forum	Title	Content	Member	Sex	Country	Date/Time
Middle East and North Africa	Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics	oh god! NOT THIS GAME AGAIN. if you are married say your married stop playing the " lets pretend we are not game" no one learned nothing from golden heart. this is bad!!! BE HONEST TELL THE TRUTH! its harder to be DISHONEST than to be HONEST!!! once you LIE - you have to keep on LYING ... all for a bloody K-1? your gonna risk getting a bann. dayum that is selfish. I happen to be one of the most selfless people on earth fyi... If I go out and hire some elvis here in the USA to perform a marriage ceremony for me and my fiance without first applying for a marriage certificate, am I then married? And were I to go around shouting "we're married we're married" when neither the USA or Morocco sees it that way, wouldn't that be the real lie? I simply want to know from the experience of others here who have used and not used their ceremony pictures, how the experience went for them. Have you or your fiance had an interview in morocco for K1? Did you have a ceremony in morocco before filing your K1? and if so, did you or did you not use photos from it and how was that experience from your point of view? well how about learning a little knowlege.. if you are MARRIED you cant COME on K-1 visa!~~ your cheating by failing to registar the marriage! which you know is illegal. you keep the game going by hiding your own pics. I hope everyone that plays that game get CAUGHT!!!!! saddly those Unknowingly get caught too. but you are KNOWINGLY trying to FRAUD.. Hince the TITLE of your TOPIC. when you LIE you have to keep on LYING and one more thing- The embassy DOES conduct Field investigations. if they ask neighbours if you married and they say yes- your goose is cooked! if you go in this with clean hands - you should have no problems smooth sailing. here is a grim reminder: http://www.visajourn...h...c=15648&hl= Thankfully, most here on this forum are supportive and helpful in giving advice. You would think, in a place such as this, with relationships such as these, there would be a lot less judgement and hate going around but oh well, the world is what it is. The reason I went the K-1 route, was because my sweetie is my "FIANCE" not as yet a husband. We did not have the ceremony so we could have sex together or to appease either of our religious preferences (neither of us are religious) and no religious offical was in presence or anyone else who is liscensed to perform any marriage rites. Nor were any marriage vows spoken, papers or contracts signed etc And we did not do it because we cared what anyone thought of us or our relationship. Nor did I know of or think that the K1 was faster as compared to a K3. We filed K1 at the recommendation of an attorney, I was in no way intending to cheat law or time by any means. We had it at the request of his 90+yr old grandma who wished to in some way before she died be able to see that ceremony. Also, before going I specifically asked my fiance several times if he was sure about the legalities of this ordeal and he assured me it was in no way religiously or legally a marriage. Do I feel or believe we are married before God, State, Country or have any rights to claim any of the rights of married persons (such as insurance etc) NO... I do not and neither does my fiance. Am I committed to him and him alone, YES very much so. Now opinions aside here, the "Legal" word from my immigration attorney who has worked several cases through Morocco is in today. She says that a ceremony of dress and dates and milk and friends and family is considered an "engagement" in the moroccan culture (is also quite common with marriage taking place several months or a year later even) and until legal and if islamic, religious avenues are pursued, we are in no way considered by anyone married. Well you've cited Shonnie's post here, but you seem to be answering issues I raised in my post as well. Nowhere did I accuse YOU of having an Islamic marriage and then being deceitful about it in order to get a fiance visa. Nowhere did I accuse YOU of having a religious ceremony in order to have sex. In fact if you will read my post again, I pointed out that you made it CLEAR that you did NOT have such a marriage. So if it's my comments that have gotten you into such a huff and made you so defensive, I don't know why. However there ARE many who have done the "we're married before God, but we're not officially married" thing, and even given the details here on VJ. I think what set Shon off is the title of your post, referring to "Engagement/Wedding Ceremony" photos, and perhaps the comment about the grandmother "wanting to see her son married." It's things like these that get the situation all confused. What most of us are saying here is that an elaborate 2-day ceremony complete with henna, 7 dresses, hair and makeup artists, hundreds of guests (I estimate hundreds because you mention a hundred chickens slaughtered for the feast,) a live band, a video photographer, even in your own words "everything done like a wedding" -- well all this may obviously look like a real wedding to the average Joe, and certainly to the Con Off. I know you're proud of your wonderful party and you should be, but the pics could easily be misinterpreted and that's why we're saying DON'T SHOW THEM as "evidence" of your fiance relationship. Try to focus on the useful advice and information given in this thread and all over this site. It'll help you keep your sanity through this crazy process. Wishing you all the best of luck.... -MK I didn't take offense at your previous post, that's why I didn't reply directly to you. I did note that you specifically tried not to implicate me in those motives and appreciate that. Yes, I have heard others here too say they did the ceremony to feel better about having sex or to feel more comfortable with their religious choices. Not that I am making any judgement on those who choose to do this or those reasons as that is surely their choice, and personally what matters in the end, is how they feel about their choice and if it was the right one for them. I just wanted to be sure, my motives were clearly understood by those reading this as they can often be easily confused. My sole reason in agreeing to that whole ceremony, was a sweet little old lady who was paying for it all. (very unselfish reasons as it wasn't what i wanted) Honestly, I was pretty terrified and overwhelmed by the whole thing, and even in planning our wedding here (as much as I can at this point) i'm thinking "Simple", family, close friends, 30 - 40 guests tops, outdoors, earthy... lol When planning my first trip to morocco, yea i knew I loved my sweetie and wanted to be with him, but to plan on "marrying" him the first time I actually met him in person, feels a little off to me. Secondly, I only had 2 weeks to stay and have heard it takes a month to legally marry. I really just wanted that time together to be sure of us and that we were right for each other for life. I can see where the title may have been confusing to some, but the whole ordeal was confusing to me. I went into that ceremony clueless and didn't find VJ or others who had encountered this until after the fact. As for what set me off, It was being lit into by another at a place where you would think judgement of anothers relationship or character would be a little less high. Perhaps the title and even a sentence or two of my origional post echoed my own confusion over the situation, but to be called a fraud a cheat and selfish was out of line. I think anyone who truly followed my posts and words could easily have distinguished my confusion in a word or two from fact as most did. My pet peeve in life is anyone who thinks or tries to impose their own sense of right or wrong on anyone else. If I had a friend who I watched making a choice that I never would have made or felt was right for me, I would still support them knowing that just because that choice wouldn't have been right for me, it might be for them. I do appreciate the time reading and understanding my posts that you and others have taken and the helpful and honest advice. I do understand where others are coming from in saying that the elaborateness of the ceremony could cause more problems than good if interpreted by the wrong person or even the right person on the wrong day. At first, I had fully planned on sending everything, but after finding VJ a couple of months ago and reading experiences of others, it caused me to question that decision, hence this post. I am considering carefully all the replys here in making my decision. Sanity is hard to come by these days for sure...lol But thank you and best of luck to you and all in this crazy situation. soul_encounter, We did a small engagement party with just family, we dressed up in Moroccan clothes, had a celebratory meal, and did the milk and dates. We included all of these photos, and the CO was actually particularly interested in a picture of me with his mother, with both of us dressed up. I think yours might be more complicated/confusing because it's going to be so big. I certainly don't agree that you're somehow "cheating" by having an ENGAGEMENT party/ceremony and then applying for K-1. That doesn't make you are married and nobody should think you are. We ran into absolutely no problems, and I thought it strengthened our application as we showed that his family was included and supported us. That being said, there have been one or two instances recently where officers have thought a couple was actually married when they weren't and there have been some problems as a result. So you might want to tread carefully here. I think the fact that it's going to be a very big party might make it look more like a wedding and more "suspicious." Anyway, the moral of the story is, plenty of us have had engagement parties and have had no problem, but there have been a few instances where some doubt was created (though they are not from Morocco) by having a wedding-like ceremony. I think you have to decide for yourself what to do. You might want to just include a few photos of you in the outfit, with the family, etc., and not show any of the big party. Good luck with whatever you decide. I know it's confusing. Thank you for your reply kerewin, it is great to hear from all sides of this experience. I really don't know if I am going to include a few simple shots or not at all at this point. But I am sure of this, although it is not what I wanted, terrified me completely, when I look at those photos and the video, and see my grandmom smiling, dancing and chanting along with the rest of his family and friends, I'll never regret it. Even if by some unforseen force it causes us a few extra months of delay, how could I be sorry I let him and his family celebrate that time together? It makes me sad to know that they will not be a part of the actual wedding here, but at the same time, I feel wonderfully loved and supported that they did all that they did for me then. I'm totally lost abot this idea of an "Islamic" marriage for sex. In Islam, you're not married until you have a means of enforcing the conditions in your nikah, and in Morocco, you are not married, religiously nor legally, until the court deems you eligible, your nikah is signed with the adoul and registered in court. Until then, there is no enforcement for the responsibilities in the nikah, no protection of rights incurred, both required in Islam to do justice. Besides, elaborate parties may be fun, but they are disliked in Islamic law as being wasteful and ostentatious; it's recommended that the kind of money spent to produce such an event be best spent on the poor in zakat, so they're not even sanctioned by Islam. If you do the fake "marriage" for sex (and I'm not saying that's what happened here), then you can't answer honestly that you are a virgin before marriage, which seems to be a concern for some COs, I understand, and you're not really married. You're not halal religiously and you've kinda backed yourself into a corner legally. If you want to be married, just do what's required to get married. All that prep time and money for the engagement party could have yielded a valid nikah, then nooky and a K3 would have been in order. Grandma would have had her dream wedding too. Me, I wouldn't show those pics. I'm confused just hearing about them! Thanks for the reply, I don't understand the islamic law on it all for sure, and neither does my fiance being he doesn't practice, go to mosque, or read the Koran. We weren't planning on being legally married or doing any vows until he comes here, so learning of and understanding the legalities there weren't a big concern at the time. And the money, wasn't mine or his to say what to do with. Thankfully here in the States, we don't have to answer that "virgin" question...lol How long a period of celibacy does it take before one becomes a born again virgin anyhow? j/k But it has been months now...	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-28 07:19:00
Middle East and North Africa	Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics	oh god! NOT THIS GAME AGAIN. if you are married say your married stop playing the " lets pretend we are not game" no one learned nothing from golden heart. this is bad!!! BE HONEST TELL THE TRUTH! its harder to be DISHONEST than to be HONEST!!! once you LIE - you have to keep on LYING ... all for a bloody K-1? your gonna risk getting a bann. dayum that is selfish. I happen to be one of the most selfless people on earth fyi... If I go out and hire some elvis here in the USA to perform a marriage ceremony for me and my fiance without first applying for a marriage certificate, am I then married? And were I to go around shouting "we're married we're married" when neither the USA or Morocco sees it that way, wouldn't that be the real lie? I simply want to know from the experience of others here who have used and not used their ceremony pictures, how the experience went for them. Have you or your fiance had an interview in morocco for K1? Did you have a ceremony in morocco before filing your K1? and if so, did you or did you not use photos from it and how was that experience from your point of view? well how about learning a little knowlege.. if you are MARRIED you cant COME on K-1 visa!~~ your cheating by failing to registar the marriage! which you know is illegal. you keep the game going by hiding your own pics. I hope everyone that plays that game get CAUGHT!!!!! saddly those Unknowingly get caught too. but you are KNOWINGLY trying to FRAUD.. Hince the TITLE of your TOPIC. when you LIE you have to keep on LYING and one more thing- The embassy DOES conduct Field investigations. if they ask neighbours if you married and they say yes- your goose is cooked! if you go in this with clean hands - you should have no problems smooth sailing. here is a grim reminder: http://www.visajourn...h...c=15648&hl= Thankfully, most here on this forum are supportive and helpful in giving advice. You would think, in a place such as this, with relationships such as these, there would be a lot less judgement and hate going around but oh well, the world is what it is. The reason I went the K-1 route, was because my sweetie is my "FIANCE" not as yet a husband. We did not have the ceremony so we could have sex together or to appease either of our religious preferences (neither of us are religious) and no religious offical was in presence or anyone else who is liscensed to perform any marriage rites. Nor were any marriage vows spoken, papers or contracts signed etc And we did not do it because we cared what anyone thought of us or our relationship. Nor did I know of or think that the K1 was faster as compared to a K3. We filed K1 at the recommendation of an attorney, I was in no way intending to cheat law or time by any means. We had it at the request of his 90+yr old grandma who wished to in some way before she died be able to see that ceremony. Also, before going I specifically asked my fiance several times if he was sure about the legalities of this ordeal and he assured me it was in no way religiously or legally a marriage. Do I feel or believe we are married before God, State, Country or have any rights to claim any of the rights of married persons (such as insurance etc) NO... I do not and neither does my fiance. Am I committed to him and him alone, YES very much so. Now opinions aside here, the "Legal" word from my immigration attorney who has worked several cases through Morocco is in today. She says that a ceremony of dress and dates and milk and friends and family is considered an "engagement" in the moroccan culture (is also quite common with marriage taking place several months or a year later even) and until legal and if islamic, religious avenues are pursued, we are in no way considered by anyone married. Not to divert the thread or anything, but my husband and I relied on the legal advice from an earlier edition of this book, that said that it was perfectly fine to have a religious ceremony and still apply for a fiance visa. It stated that USCIS doesn't care about anything other than a legal marriage, and hey, even mention your religous marriage at your fiance interview. So, we started planning the whole visa process in early 2002, got married religiously in 2003 and finally applied for a fiance visa in January 05, all the time relying on the information from this book that had come highly recommended from a lawyer friend. There wasn't anything surreptitious about it. We didn't even know it would be a problem until I found VJ in the midst of the K-1 visa and found out that things had apparently changed. I would like to know when this mindset changed. I wonder if I write the author of this book if she'd respond. Hmmmm. Lol... let me know if you get a response from that author please. I would be curious to hear her take on this now.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-27 17:31:00
Middle East and North Africa	Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics	Calm down Shon! We're not talking about lying or pretending to be something we're not here. Moroccan culture has two ceremonies - the engagement and the wedding. They can be held as much as a year apart, sometimes more. Moroccan men wear engagement rings (at least some do) as well as the women. The problems couples have encountered was when they referred to each other as husband and wife before the legal marriage and slipped and spoke that way in front of immigration officials. Abdel and I called each other rajli and mrati before we were married too, but were aware that it was just being affectionate, like lovers tend to do, not a term we could use in front of people that had to be aware we weren't married yet. The engagement ceremony is not a marriage. No wedding vows are exchanged, nobody is married in the eyes of Islam even. It is much like the betrothal talked about in the bible where two people vow to marry each other. This vowing to marry does give a couple much freedom in the eyes of the family to become more intimate in many cases, since the family then sees the intended spouse as being serious. I've watched many many couples on this site, and I'm giving you information based on what I've seen here. I've been here over a year now so I've seen a whole lot. it is vital that your fiancee never call you his wife, and always say engagement and fiancee. You two sound like an intelligent couple so that shouldn't be a problem. Your fiancee actually sounds very much like my husband. He said he was drawn to my intelligence and happened to like the way I looked too. We've been married over 6 months now, he has his green card, and we're more in love than ever. We're still kissing every 5 minutes and falling asleep late at night after deep intellectual discussions. Right now he's sweating his ####### off working in a sugar refinery and the first thing he told me to do with his paycheck was offer for my youngest son to go back to college. You cannot imagine how much my sons and my family respect him. Good luck on your journey! Really, you have no idea how happy hearing your story makes me. Congratulations on your success! I'm glad to know your sweetie is here, and you're still kissing every 5 minutes. In my opinion, that is a must in any successful relationship, well at least enjoyable... lol After hearing stories of denials based on the calling of a fiance a spouse, we have both become very cautious of that, even in alone talks. Thankfully, my fiance does speak very good english and yea, he's a smartie, one of the many things I love about him. Looking back, had I known what I know now about the fiance/spouse confusion, imbra delays, etc. We may very well have chosen to stay the extra time tracking down real marriage papers and filed K3... who knows, but what's done is done and all we can do is the best we can from where we are now. We filed our K1 just a week or so before all the imbra ####### hit the fan...lol just another hurdle, one way or another, we will make it through and be together. Good Luck to you two ... oh and your son, how awesome	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-26 16:46:00
Middle East and North Africa	Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics	oh god! NOT THIS GAME AGAIN. if you are married say your married stop playing the " lets pretend we are not game" no one learned nothing from golden heart. this is bad!!! BE HONEST TELL THE TRUTH! its harder to be DISHONEST than to be HONEST!!! once you LIE - you have to keep on LYING ... all for a bloody K-1? your gonna risk getting a bann. dayum that is selfish. I happen to be one of the most selfless people on earth fyi... If I go out and hire some elvis here in the USA to perform a marriage ceremony for me and my fiance without first applying for a marriage certificate, am I then married? And were I to go around shouting "we're married we're married" when neither the USA or Morocco sees it that way, wouldn't that be the real lie? I simply want to know from the experience of others here who have used and not used their ceremony pictures, how the experience went for them. Have you or your fiance had an interview in morocco for K1? Did you have a ceremony in morocco before filing your K1? and if so, did you or did you not use photos from it and how was that experience from your point of view?	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-26 16:30:00
Middle East and North Africa	Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics	Ok, I don't usually chime in here but I have to disagree heartily with the others. I sent about 80 photos in our I129F, all mounted with captions and neatly bound down with the acco clips. I sent photos of the entire engagement ceremony including the milk and dates, ring exchange and dancing. I also sent several of us kissing. I was very careful to label everything "engagement ceremony". You can look at our timeline to decide for yourself on the impact of this on our progress. From what I have seen Morocco is very concerned with validity of relationship and pictures of the two of you kissing will confirm that you actually get intimate - not something so common in a "green-card" marriage. Abdel said in the interview the guy had our file in front of him when he called him up and he was smiling at the photos. Abdel also had on his engagement ring at the interview. So, use the photos. Boldly declare your love to the consulate. A huge engagement ceremony is traditional there, and if you don't have one it can be more suspicious than having one. That's what they want to see. Good luck! Thanks Liz for adding a different point of view here. I tried to look up your timeline but it said no link found? Your pics are beautiful btw. I had to laugh remembering that date and milk thing (I hate milk) but I endured. Really this whole thing can be so darn confusing. I mean, granted, there are fraud green card marriages coming from morocco, no dispute there, and the consulate has to do their job. The thing that gets me, is here we have a genuine relationship, lots of love and support from family and friends. Neither of us think traditionally when it comes to the environment we were raised in, and both are outspoken in what we think is wrong with the world today and how stupid people and societal stigmas can be. He can't stand to hear of arranged marriages or marriages not for love, he thinks all people should have a right to choose in religion and that God loves the person not the religion, He also believes God sees the heart of a person and not the routine acts of devotion (like getting drunk on saturday and going to church on sunday) He believes in physical expressions of emotions and loved holding me closely everywhere we went and kissing every 5 minutes. I agree with him on all of the above and think our society is way too accustomed to mistaking physical attraction for love. That's Probably one of the main reasons I took the time to get to know him and give him a chance. Before we met online, I was hit on daily by men. I've always had male admirers and men attracted to me for my looks, but very few of them actually got to know the heart of me or when they did, they wanted to change me and mold me into their vision of what they wanted. When he saw my profile, there was one picture of me in it, no location, age or other "personal" info listed just a Lot of interests, quotes, poetry etc. I think a lot of women nowadays turn to internet romance for just that reason, I did. I mean after finding myself 30 and single after being married all of my adult life, dating was a scary nightmare. The bars and clubs aren't safe and who wants what is there, and meeting someone who isn't just after your body or a pretty armside aint easy. The internet gives you space and time to know someone at a deeper level before physical chemistry takes over. He messaged me regarding a quote listed in my profile by a philosopher he knew, and it grew from there. He had no idea how old I was or where I was from, and when he first asked me of my race, he assumed I was asian. We chatted for weeks, no webcams (I refused, wasn't interested in another male admiring my looks) just really getting to know each other as friends. He was happy with what he saw eventually...lol But that's another story. One year from the day we started talking, we met in person, no rush there either, we both wanted to be sure. Point is, this is who we are, me and my sweetie... all the kissing, holding, lovey dovey, closeness with family... All of it is who we are, and wanting to celebrate our decision to commit with his family, especially his grandma who once he comes here, he may never see alive again at her age, is a part of us. The thing that really doesn't settle well with me, is that to prevent being seen as fraudulant general consensus seems to think we should hide parts of ourselves. Yes, there seems to be good reasonings for this line of thought based upon consular experiences... But how screwed up is it, that this embassy has made us fear that if we are open and honest about who and what we are, they will think it a fraud? Something just aint right with that scenario. All very admirable. Trust me. Most of us share your feelings. However, if you choose to share these pictures, you will be doing so at the risk of having them mis-interpreted, no matter how accurately they are labeled. Honeyblonde was lucky. There have been others who have not been so lucky. Good luck with whichever course you choose. Jen Thanks for the reply Jen. Not sure really what I will do yet, just reading the experiences and opinions here for now. We have time to think on it. I do like hearing experiences with this situation from ALL points of view and routes though. A part of me says "whatever it takes to get the visa" another part says "it doesn't feel right" and yet another "i'm an adult dammit why do i have to get permission from anyone" lol	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-26 16:18:00
Middle East and North Africa	Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics	Ok, I don't usually chime in here but I have to disagree heartily with the others. I sent about 80 photos in our I129F, all mounted with captions and neatly bound down with the acco clips. I sent photos of the entire engagement ceremony including the milk and dates, ring exchange and dancing. I also sent several of us kissing. I was very careful to label everything "engagement ceremony". You can look at our timeline to decide for yourself on the impact of this on our progress. From what I have seen Morocco is very concerned with validity of relationship and pictures of the two of you kissing will confirm that you actually get intimate - not something so common in a "green-card" marriage. Abdel said in the interview the guy had our file in front of him when he called him up and he was smiling at the photos. Abdel also had on his engagement ring at the interview. So, use the photos. Boldly declare your love to the consulate. A huge engagement ceremony is traditional there, and if you don't have one it can be more suspicious than having one. That's what they want to see. Good luck! Thanks Liz for adding a different point of view here. I tried to look up your timeline but it said no link found? Your pics are beautiful btw. I had to laugh remembering that date and milk thing (I hate milk) but I endured. Really this whole thing can be so darn confusing. I mean, granted, there are fraud green card marriages coming from morocco, no dispute there, and the consulate has to do their job. The thing that gets me, is here we have a genuine relationship, lots of love and support from family and friends. Neither of us think traditionally when it comes to the environment we were raised in, and both are outspoken in what we think is wrong with the world today and how stupid people and societal stigmas can be. He can't stand to hear of arranged marriages or marriages not for love, he thinks all people should have a right to choose in religion and that God loves the person not the religion, He also believes God sees the heart of a person and not the routine acts of devotion (like getting drunk on saturday and going to church on sunday) He believes in physical expressions of emotions and loved holding me closely everywhere we went and kissing every 5 minutes. I agree with him on all of the above and think our society is way too accustomed to mistaking physical attraction for love. That's Probably one of the main reasons I took the time to get to know him and give him a chance. Before we met online, I was hit on daily by men. I've always had male admirers and men attracted to me for my looks, but very few of them actually got to know the heart of me or when they did, they wanted to change me and mold me into their vision of what they wanted. When he saw my profile, there was one picture of me in it, no location, age or other "personal" info listed just a Lot of interests, quotes, poetry etc. I think a lot of women nowadays turn to internet romance for just that reason, I did. I mean after finding myself 30 and single after being married all of my adult life, dating was a scary nightmare. The bars and clubs aren't safe and who wants what is there, and meeting someone who isn't just after your body or a pretty armside aint easy. The internet gives you space and time to know someone at a deeper level before physical chemistry takes over. He messaged me regarding a quote listed in my profile by a philosopher he knew, and it grew from there. He had no idea how old I was or where I was from, and when he first asked me of my race, he assumed I was asian. We chatted for weeks, no webcams (I refused, wasn't interested in another male admiring my looks) just really getting to know each other as friends. He was happy with what he saw eventually...lol But that's another story. One year from the day we started talking, we met in person, no rush there either, we both wanted to be sure. Point is, this is who we are, me and my sweetie... all the kissing, holding, lovey dovey, closeness with family... All of it is who we are, and wanting to celebrate our decision to commit with his family, especially his grandma who once he comes here, he may never see alive again at her age, is a part of us. The thing that really doesn't settle well with me, is that to prevent being seen as fraudulant general consensus seems to think we should hide parts of ourselves. Yes, there seems to be good reasonings for this line of thought based upon consular experiences... But how screwed up is it, that this embassy has made us fear that if we are open and honest about who and what we are, they will think it a fraud? Something just aint right with that scenario.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-26 14:14:00
Middle East and North Africa	Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics	i have been told also that because of the muslim culture... not to show photos of ya'll kissing... but, you may want to ask the other ladies... good luck! God Bless, Lynne Wow, overwhelming consensus so far... No ceremony pics, but kissing? Really? Well, I already told ya'll my sweetie is Not your average moroccan muslim male, we did lots of kissing. So, no ceremony shots, possibly no kissing shots, what about the laying in bed afterglow pics, those are really really lovey dovey. Come on now, you guys are eliminating my best photos ...lol j/k Thanks for your help it truly is appreciated. I think the main reason I was kind of wanting to show some of the ceremony pics, was the Huge support from family and friends. I was kissed and hugged by so many people, I'll never remember them all. But you guys are right, i'll stick with the others. Let me know about the kissing thing though	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-26 10:48:00
Middle East and North Africa	Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics	Ok gals, ya'll who have been here done this, tell me if you used em or not. Before my trip to Morocco, my fiances grandma (who helped raise him and was more of a mother) convinced us to go along with an "engagement ceremony" (being sure here not to call it a wedding) because she is very old (in her 90s) and her and his other family and friends there would not be able to be in the states to take part in our legal ceremony here. She said "I am old, I want to see my son marry before I die, that is my wish." So she planned, orchestrated and paid for an elaborately beautiful 2 day ordeal. A video guy for the entire 2 days, live band, I think 100 or more chickens were sacrificed, my own personal hair and make-up guy and attendant/dressing girls, etc. First night was the henna of course fully dressed out ritual, second night the ceremony complete with 7 dresses. Oh was I ever exhausted, but I know my grandmom was more so, she was there like a general every step of the way giving orders and overseeing and even bellydancing...lol We did exchange rings at the end and yes everything was done as a wedding would be I suppose, however there were no "vows" exchanged, no papers or contracts signed, no government or religious officials in attendance, basically no "legalities". We have over 600 photos total of the ceremonies, some professional and others just from the video and family and friends there snapping shots. We have about 200 of the entire rest of the vacation excluding the ceremonies. Now, I had doubles printed of everything one set for him (well for his grandma mostly, she'll keep them when he comes here) and one for our album here at home. I am working on picking out 100 or so shots of the entire trip that show us laughing,smiling playing, kissing, adoring looks etc for an "interview" album only. I have heard of others having issues with interview/immigration who filed K1 and the officer calls it fraud because they should have filed K3 even though the marriage was not legal. So, my question is, should I use the ceremony shots at all in our interview album (there are some great ones there) or just leave them out altogether??? Thanks in advance for any help	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-26 09:09:00
Middle East and North Africa	Thursday is here	Hi gals - I got to start the day thread! You all must be really slacking because it's 9:15 Central - most of you have already had an hour extra start! haha! I'm just teaching this morning and working on our website for work. Do any of you know of a good webpage building site (that's free or cheap) and doesn't require a lot of html - i.e. it gives you options to add in. I tried homestead but it's sort of lame. Others? Thanks girls - have a great day! There was one i used awhile back, great click and build options for html dummies like me bizland.com and they had a 9.99 a month thing, but cheaper if paying a year up front, could have change since then though. Good luck	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-29 11:05:00
Middle East and North Africa	Sarah and Hicham's interview on Tuesday!	How Very Very Exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best Of Luck to you two and may True Love Prevail	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-26 09:12:00
Middle East and North Africa	Poetry	If You Were Coming In The Fall by Emily Dickinson If you were coming in the fall I'd brush the summer by With half a smile and half a spurn As housewives do a fly. If I could see you in a year I'd wind the months in balls And put them into separate drawers Until their time befalls. If only centuries delayed I'd count them on my hand Subtracting 'till my fingers dropped Into Van Diemen's land If certain when this life was out That yours and mine should be I'd toss life yonder like a rind And taste eternity. But now all ignorant of length, Of times uncertain wing, It goads me like the goblin bee That will not state its sting! ________________________________________ Sure can relate to this unknowing poem of waiting and wishing	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-03 09:49:00
Middle East and North Africa	Samir at JFK	Ok I have come up for air. First of all Samir has been here for a week and its going great we applied for SSN and waiting on that. Ok he took a royal jordanian flight out of Amman and they held the whole plane basically he was one of the first ones out due to his persistence but they held like 25 people. He told them so many times i will answer any questions but please my fiance is waiting in Cleveland for me and i need to get out of here and call her she must be so worried, who knows how long the others had to wait. He missed his flight on american airlines even though I gave him 5 hours between flights for immigration. They had no other flights available for two days to cleveland so we had to give up that ticket. Then I found one other flight on Continental leaving from Newark NJ and the buses where closed so he took the airport limo so it cost us 550.00 more plus the 350.00$ ticket we did not use. Of course I don't care about the money but wanted to let you guys know what happened in case it may help you with disicion making. If I had to do it again I would have taken airfrance or KML or something that took Samir through Europe maybe it would not have made a difference but thats what I would have done. Anyways hes here and all is good. Love, Allison I am so so happy for you guys. Enjoy your well earned bliss together. We haven't even reached NOA2 yet, but I have been researching flights after your post last week (it scared me thinking i may be waiting for 7 hours not knowing and then run the risk of my sweetie missing a flight transfer.). I am hoping to have him a flight with only one US stop, one close enough to where I live that I can drive there and wait for him. Air france has one that goes from morocco, paris, then final stop cincinnati which is only a 2 hour drive for me. Anyone ever have a fiance or spouse POE @ cincinnati? If I may ask (knowing you are really busy so apologies in advance), what took so long? Was he questioned that long, or just waiting to be questioned? Any unususual questions we should be prepared for? Best of luck and all the happiness in the world to you guys!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-03 08:28:00
Middle East and North Africa	Embassy denail of visa	My husband had an interveiw at the US embassy in Tunis Tunisa. After the interview we where told that they belive our marrege is only for immigration. and that his visa was denied. A few days later I was told that it was now pending and they where investigating our case. I was wondering if this has happen to anyone. They will not give me a time line or let me know of anymore information they would like from us. So at this point I have writen my congress woman and she is going to make a congressional inqury. I am hoping this will help in some way. I have a friend whose fiance was denied at the initial interview in casa (not tunisia, so i am sure there will be differences). The CO thought the age difference, past marriages, amount of actual evidence all lacking to support a true relationship. The initial interview was in oct 05. In march 06 she was given the chance to appeal, did so, case was re-opened and they have a new interview coming up next month. Sorry you are experiencing this, I wish I had more help to offer. Best wishes	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-03 18:26:00
Middle East and North Africa	sweet and sour	I have mixed feelings right now because as much as I want to be happy it is so hard to see those who are way ahead of us in this process who are still waiting each day for hope. It isn't fair that we got this before you it isn't right and there is no reason for it. All I can think is that we have been extremely lucky. I hope you know how sincere I am about this and that I wish more than anything that those of you waiting will get your turn soon. Hicham and I appreciate you all so much and all of your help, your responses, your knowledge and everything. Of course we are happy but it just isn't right that you guys have had to wait for so long. I'm so sorry for all the pain you go through waiiting. All I can say is that we have been EXTREMELY lucky in this process. Hicham got his Visa today in Casablanca. Thank you all so much for everything we would not be in this position without all of you. Sarah and Hicham Big Hug Sarah Congratulations darling you earned it just as much as anyone!!! I am so very happy for you, and you deserve every happiness in your new life together. You give me hope and a happy ending to look forward to. WTG	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-07 06:00:00
Middle East and North Africa	Hows about	Cute thread... My sweetie has been just floored over the life my chihuahua leads here. Her own wardrobe, purse, toys, treats etc. He laughed so hard the first time he saw her all decked out in booties and a snow coat for winter. When I went there, I took his dog (a sheperd, who is used to eating chicken heads and feet) a giant beef flavored rawhide bone. They had never seen anything like it, evidently neither had the dog cause he sniffed it funny turned up his nose and went back to licking me... sighs But definately, I can't wait to show him Superpets. He doesn't understand what a store for animals is.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-18 05:54:00
Middle East and North Africa	YAHOO	well its 12:40 mountain time and I am finally able to get on to yahoo!! Good thing I have been out most of the day helping my dad. Talked to my love by phone instead. This is why I always use yahoo, its free, headsets, and webcams. I will be so freaking glad when he is here so we don't have to deal with this ####### any more! I woke up at 3 am, and my yahell is back on. I just about went nuts yesterday thinking it was my p c. It seems yahoo was updating messenger again, I found it on this morning but downloaded the new version. All that downtime and the text on the messenger page is still overlapping. I expect they will fix that soon, but no more downtime please. Just a tip for any who want, you can set up a yahoo call pc to phone for your sweetie and he can call you (from morocco) for 1 cent a minute. And........ print monthly phone records listing when he calls you and for how long monthly to take to interview.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-23 06:08:00
Middle East and North Africa	Casa Interview Techniques	[quote name='chiquita' date='Jul 24 2006, 11:19 AM' post='327615'] Hey chi, i know you feel strongly about these cases and thanks for any help offered. Some of the details, may be confused between the mans interpretation of the situation, then explaining it to his fiance and then her to me, so forgive any misunderstandings on my part in retelling here. I have never seen the consulate or had experience first hand with an interview yet, so my knowledge is limited. She emailed me the letter, don't want to attach it because their info on it but let me see if i can retype a word for word. There absolutely are No handwritten remarks. Infopass is what the senators office in arizona instructed her to do, have no idea why. The other couple I sadly haven't heard from, am worried about them. Only the one who sent me the letter got the japanese CO and she is assuredly there as of last week, the other had a black man. Both cases have over a 10 year age difference, both women had previously married and divorced, divorces final for years, both women are probably beyond childbearing years (but not impossibly with medical technology if they wanted). Neither had attorneys, neither male had a job in morocco, and the one i have not had an update from recently does not herself have a job or place of her own here in the US. Both women have visited morocco more than once though and second trips were close to a month each spent there. On this denial too, the man was asked for proof of correspondance on yahoo but did not have it although he did have all of her phone bills and letters to show. These couples are both in these relationships long term, more than 2 years and counting so no quick engagements. So there are red flags, and possibly more documentaion that could be used, but they do have legitimate grounds too to prove stability. I don't know... just so darn frustrating to see these cases ahead of mine going bad. I need more positive stories like Sarah and Hicham (wtg guys) to look to. [/quote] Hmmm...her senator then knows nothing if she was told to do that. Ask her to have them send an email to the consulate to ask what is the reason for the case being returned. I am almost sure she will find out it was "due to the validity of the relationship". If you don't mind, let them both know there is hope. I would rather talk with them though because as you say all of this info is changing through so many people. You are concerned about you case. Mind if I ask why? Do you have red flags too? Is there naything about your situation that the CO would consider a red flag and suspect he needs to deny your case? If so you can get it dealt with prior to the interview. chi [/quote] I will ask the ladies if they mind me sharing their contact info with you, i know you have some experience in this matter. I just hate to see it go farther into oblivion before it can be salvaged quickly. My case does have some red flags yes. There is no considerable age difference, I am older by 3 years but neither of us knew that until later. We met in march 05 online yahoo messenger, became great chat buddies and an attraction grew. He did not propose right away it wasn't like that. He did however want so much for me to come visit and stay with him and his family and let him show me all there is of wonders in morocco. I was scared though and it took much convincing, even after I felt I was beginning to love him. I have been married and divorced twice. The first marriage I was 17 years old, young, stupid. I had 2 children before that divorce ended after 3 years. I later married again, had another child, and it lasted over 10 years. I had left my husband in july 2004, filed for divorce in october of 2004, met my sweetie in march of 2005 and my divorce was finalized in may 2005. After realizing I did love my moroccan sweetie, and did want to see where our relationship could go, I went to morocco in march of 2006. It was instant chemistry and he proposed formally 3 days after I was there (although we had discussed being together forever before my going). We had a largescale celebration that his grandma orchestrated lasting 2 days. My fiance has never been married, never been out of his country, never had children but is great with mine. We do plan to have more children when he is here, I am only 33, definately not past childbearing years. We have daily chat record archives, phone records where he calls me every night, I have a great career here and 3 career opportunites for him (in writing, notarized) to choose from when he is here. But there, he has never had a "legitimate" as in tax paying job. Only ever done odd and end work, but he takes care of himself and I have never sent him money nor has he asked or I suspect would he accept. We have letters from family and friends on both sides supporting our relationship, pictures, my travel documents and receipts, emails, cards and letters sent via postal mail. So, as I said, I don't think we have any major flags, but from what I have read here from others, it doesn't take much for them to deny you. It is scary... I am soooooo happy to hear of your good news today, it gives me hope at this stage.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-24 15:50:00
Middle East and North Africa	Casa Interview Techniques	[quote name='chiquita' date='Jul 23 2006, 11:13 AM' post='326198'] Sorry all, no updates, she has contacted her senator and made an infopass appointment, but the 221 G I copied right from the letter she emailed me. That was it, no explanation as to "why" he was ineligible, nothing. It just seemed to be a standard form letter with 4 check options and the 221 G was what they checked. Is this typical? I mean, do you get any further explanations? Is there a letter in the mail to her possibly clarifying... I don't just don't know. If you know reasons you can refute, with this there is nothing to go on. Frustrated... [/quote] I wonder how the infopass appointment can help? I thought that was with the local office. Did her senator advise her to do that? What state is she in? In the letter from the consulate where they checked the box for Section 221g there is a comment after the statement: "The following remarks apply in your case*" Then there is space for a hand writen message that is now typewritten. It says: "We have returned your application and petition to the Dept of Homeland Security's Citizenship and Immigration Service. Any further inquires to your application and perttion can be directed to their attention and the CIS office where the petition was origiannly filed." Was this portion on the letter? Were the men told anything as to why they were denied? Has the OP contacted the consulate to ask why they were denied? If neither the petitioner or the beneficiary were given any reason as to "why" then yes this can be refuted and overcome easily It is possible they are on AP? And they dont know it? An other question I have is the statement>>> "Both men reported having to place their finger into a little plastic thing with wires that ran into an adjoining room, after being seated and before questioning began." They were seated? How is that possible? One goes up to a window and stands where the CO is behind glass. Also how could the men see where the wires went to? I have been there two times and there is no way to really see much in the back. And then that the CO was Japanese? I thought she was long gone. I came in contact with her in Dec 03. And also: "I do know a lot of the guys go into an interview feeling as if they have already commited a crime of sorts just for having fallen in love with a woman outside their country and filing a petition." My husband felt so good going for his interview. Yes he was a bit intimitated but not because he fell in love, only because he heard the horror stories of how some are treated. He only felt like a criminal AFTER the interview when he relized he was denied because the CO thought we were not a real couple. You said there are 2 women that you know of. What are the different situations with both? If you dont want to go into all the details, I understand. I just have an interest in returned case and would like to help any couple who wants help. You can have them contact me if you like. chi [/quote] Hey chi, i know you feel strongly about these cases and thanks for any help offered. Some of the details, may be confused between the mans interpretation of the situation, then explaining it to his fiance and then her to me, so forgive any misunderstandings on my part in retelling here. I have never seen the consulate or had experience first hand with an interview yet, so my knowledge is limited. She emailed me the letter, don't want to attach it because their info on it but let me see if i can retype a word for word. There absolutely are No handwritten remarks. Dear Visa Applicant: This office regrets to inform you that it is unable to issue a visa to you because you have been found ineligible to receive a visa under the following sections(s) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. The information contained in the paragraphs marked with "X" pertain to your visa application. Please disregard the unmarked paragraphs. X Section 221 (g) which prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone whose application does not comply with the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act or regulations issued pursuant thereto. The following remarks apply to your case:* We have returned your application and petition to the Department of Homeland Security's Citizenship and Immigration Service. Any further inquiries to your application and petition can be directed to their attention and the CIS office. (various unmarked boxes) *[b]WARNING: IF YOU FAIL TO TAKE THE ACTION REQUESTED WITHIN ONE YEAR FOLLOWING VISA DENIAL UNDER SECTION 221 G OF THE IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY ACT, SECTION 223 G OF THE ACT REQUIRES THAT YOUR PETITION BE CANCELLED. Infopass is what the senators office in arizona instructed her to do, have no idea why. The other couple I sadly haven't heard from, am worried about them. Only the one who sent me the letter got the japanese CO and she is assuredly there as of last week, the other had a black man. Both cases have over a 10 year age difference, both women had previously married and divorced, divorces final for years, both women are probably beyond childbearing years (but not impossibly with medical technology if they wanted). Neither had attorneys, neither male had a job in morocco, and the one i have not had an update from recently does not herself have a job or place of her own here in the US. Both women have visited morocco more than once though and second trips were close to a month each spent there. On this denial too, the man was asked for proof of correspondance on yahoo but did not have it although he did have all of her phone bills and letters to show. These couples are both in these relationships long term, more than 2 years and counting so no quick engagements. So there are red flags, and possibly more documentaion that could be used, but they do have legitimate grounds too to prove stability. I don't know... just so darn frustrating to see these cases ahead of mine going bad. I need more positive stories like Sarah and Hicham (wtg guys) to look to.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-23 13:53:00
Middle East and North Africa	Casa Interview Techniques	Have you heard any more as to the reason for the denial? I am so intersted in what the findings of the CO were. chi Sorry all, no updates, she has contacted her senator and made an infopass appointment, but the 221 G I copied right from the letter she emailed me. That was it, no explanation as to "why" he was ineligible, nothing. It just seemed to be a standard form letter with 4 check options and the 221 G was what they checked. Is this typical? I mean, do you get any further explanations? Is there a letter in the mail to her possibly clarifying... I don't just don't know. If you know reasons you can refute, with this there is nothing to go on. Frustrated...	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-23 06:03:00
Middle East and North Africa	Casa Interview Techniques	[quote name='soul_encounter' date='Jul 20 2006, 07:48 PM' post='322086'] [quote name='chiquita' date='Jul 20 2006, 11:27 AM' post='320966'] [quote name='Bosco' date='Jul 20 2006, 11:19 AM' post='320949'] Sounds like the digital fingerprint scanner. Yes, I am sure that was what it was. My husband had to do that. Do tell what was the reason for the denial? Do they need any help? If they want to prevent their case from being returned to USCIS, they must act very quickly. I am sure they are all in shock, but action must be taken right away!! chi [/quote] You guys are probably right, it is just so hard to trust them with all these horror stories. Fingerprinting is not so bad though. She doesn't have the letter yet, he does and scan wasn't working well, so no word on why yet exactly. He did miss a question about her ex husbands name and an interpreter was called in, so his understanding of the questions was limited. I know she is 11 years older... but all is speculation for now. She did contact her senator and they asked for all her case information to be overnighted to them saying to her "with morocco supporting lebanon and things getting uglier there, we expect casas interviewing to become even stricter." Will update as I know more, if anyone has any advice for me to pass on, please do [/quote] Section 221 G which prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone whose application does not comply with the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act or regulations issued pursuant thereto. Not extremely informative	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-21 06:35:00
Middle East and North Africa	Casa Interview Techniques	[quote name='chiquita' date='Jul 20 2006, 11:27 AM' post='320966'] [quote name='Bosco' date='Jul 20 2006, 11:19 AM' post='320949'] Sounds like the digital fingerprint scanner. Yes, I am sure that was what it was. My husband had to do that. Do tell what was the reason for the denial? Do they need any help? If they want to prevent their case from being returned to USCIS, they must act very quickly. I am sure they are all in shock, but action must be taken right away!! chi [/quote] You guys are probably right, it is just so hard to trust them with all these horror stories. Fingerprinting is not so bad though. She doesn't have the letter yet, he does and scan wasn't working well, so no word on why yet exactly. He did miss a question about her ex husbands name and an interpreter was called in, so his understanding of the questions was limited. I know she is 11 years older... but all is speculation for now. She did contact her senator and they asked for all her case information to be overnighted to them saying to her "with morocco supporting lebanon and things getting uglier there, we expect casas interviewing to become even stricter." Will update as I know more, if anyone has any advice for me to pass on, please do	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-20 18:48:00
Middle East and North Africa	Casa Interview Techniques	Good Morning I know 2 US women whose moroccan fiances had interviews this week neither know each other. Both men reported having to place their finger into a little plastic thing with wires that ran into an adjoining room, after being seated and before questioning began. Neither were told what this thing was for. First they were asked routine easy questions, fiances name, their names, where they lived, etc. Then a few more detailed questions about the relationship, and ended with having the man Swear, he truly loved his fiance and that was his sole intent in this visa, to be with his fiance. After which the CO left the room, went into the adjoining room where there was another officer, talked a bit and then came back. Now, the second of these men, said when the lady was speaking with him she was so nice during the questioning. When she came back, she was rude, short, and yes he was denied. (japanese lady btw) Now, my question is, has anyone ever heard of the Embassy using polygraphs for the interview? Is this standard, new, or could that have been something all together different? What do you all think? And I had always heard a polygraph could be admissable into court as a means of showing innocence, but not guilt, could be wrong on that too though. It raises many interesting questions in my mind, i'm not exactly sure how these things work, but I do know a lot of the guys go into an interview feeling as if they have already commited a crime of sorts just for having fallen in love with a woman outside their country and filing a petition. How would that effect a polygraph regardless of how that guy truly feels for his fiance? I met the couple who was denied when I was in morocco, I had no doubt of his love for her, I saw him crying after she left and heartbroken missing her. How do you feel about the possibility of polygraphs being used in interview? Are we confident in these machines judging our love? Not sure how I feel about it right now. Will post more later, have a great day all.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-20 06:37:00
Middle East and North Africa	GOT IT!!!	Oh my Oh my Husband called a little bit ago...he has his visa in hand!!!! He is on his way home to get his luggage and we are trying to get the next flight out!!! chi You have certainly EARNED this celebration darling!!! Congratualations!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-24 15:25:00
Middle East and North Africa	White Knuckles...	I woke up to this email from the Embassy. It sounds good. I'm hopeful it means we're about a month away. Hopefully they won't change their story... Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for sending your e-mail message, Kindly note that, the administrative process came to conclusion. The consular officer is currently reviewing your case. Your visa will be issued soon and mailed to your address. Regards, Consular Staff [b][size=6]" Your visa will be issued soon and mailed to your address." WTG, it sure does sound good girl!!! *********ENSHAA ALLAH********** I called Mohammed to tell him. He was sleeping and almost incoherent but hopefully this gave him a reason to think happy thoughts today. God knows we both really need it right now.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-25 06:08:00
Middle East and North Africa	Where is the Dancing Baby?	I've been looking around for some posts from Lynne and have not seen too many. Where's the peach? Anyone hear from her lately? heya JP... *hugs* got some stuff going on... and have found that the stuff on VJ just isn't for me... sorry... i promise to stay in touch tho... *hugs again* Lynne *LOVES LYNNE*	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-26 06:14:00
Middle East and North Africa	If I'm Dreaming I Don't Want To Wake Up!!!	ALHAMDULILAH!!!!! I don't know if I'm dreaming, but if I am I don't want to wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He called me at 4 am this morning to tell me he had his visa in his hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Alhamdulilah!!! He was there most of the day but very simple - told the first Paki guy the info they had requested, waited an hour and a half and then an older american male consular asked him if he'd ever worked for the Taliban in any way, and he said "No way", and then the Paki lady translating said Congratulations - you're visa's approved... wait here and we'll get your visa for you - and another hour or so later, he left w/ visa and brown envelope in hand!!!!!!!!! 15 months since we filed and 199 days of AR/AP - but it's all done now!!!!!!!!!!! Alhamdulilah!!! We're hoping to have him here in a week or two insha'Allah - I'm still in utter shock and disbelief - at a minimum I thought they would give it to him a day later - OMG!!!! For all of you waiting, there is light at the end of the tunnel insha'Allah!!! Thank you all sooooo much for all the support and well wishes - I would have never survived this process w/o all you fellow VJers!!! You will all remain in my prayers always!!! Lots of good news this week at VJ. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-25 17:47:00
Middle East and North Africa	Someone needs ME/NA Help in K1 forum	I came across a plea for help in the K-1 forum. This lady got a 221 (g) from Morocco!!! http://www.visajourn...showtopic=23762 First here's a link, if a petition is what you want, i know quite a few others who got the 221 (g) from casa so let me know where to tell them to sign up. As for having casa investigated, i'm not sure who the governing office is, perhaps the attorney genneral??? Here's a link: http://travel.state....grams_1388.html and a pasted segment: 5. Unlike consular determinations regarding visa eligibility, which are not subject to judicial review, actions relating to DHS petitions are potentially subject to administrative and/or judicial review. The Department is regularly named as a co- defendant with DHS in cases involving the return of immigrant or nonimmigrant petitions to DHS. Therefore, it is particularly important that consular petition adjudications are well documented and clearly state the basis for the petition return. 6. In adjudicating visa cases involving petitions, posts should bear in mind three important factors: A. the consular officer''s role in the petition process is to determine if there is substantial evidence relevant to petition validity not previously considered by DHS, and not to merely readjudicate the petition; B. the memo supporting the petition return must clearly show the factual and concrete reasons for recommending revocation (observations made by the consular officer cannot be conclusive, speculative, equivocal or irrelevant) and; C. consular officers must provide to the applicant in writing as full an explanation as possible of the legal and factual basis for the visa denial and petition return. Post must maintain a copy of the returned petition, other evidence relevant to the case, and a copy of the written notification of the denial. No readjudication of petitions 7. In general, an approved petition will be considered by consular officers as prima facie evidence that the requirements for classification - which are examined in the petition process - have been met. Where Congress has placed responsibility and authority with DHS to determine whether the requirements for status which are examined in the petition process have been met, consular officers do not have the authority to question the approval of petitions without specific evidence, generally unavailable to DHS at the time of petition approval, that the beneficiary may not be entitled to status (see 9 FAM 41.53, Note 2, 41.54 Note 3.2-2, 41.55 Note 8, 41.56 Note 10, 41.57 Note 6, and 42.43 Note 2) due to fraud, changes in circumstances or clear error on the part of DHS in approving the petition. Conoffs should not assume that a petition should be revoked simply because they would have reached a different decision if adjudicating the petition. 8. When a petition is returned to DHS, if DHS concurs with the officer''s recommendation, DHS regulations require DHS/BCIS to provide the petitioner notice of intent to revoke, and to allow the petitioner an opportunity to rebut the grounds for revocation. DHS regulations require that, in the case of nonimmigrant petitions, the revocation must be based only on grounds specified in the regulations. Those grounds include evidence that the statement of facts in the petition was not true and correct, or that the approval involved gross error. The FAM often only summarizes the petition approval criteria because they are too lengthy and complicated to reproduce fully (the H regulations, for example, contain about 25 pages of double column material). Absent access to the full DHS regulations, conoffs may not be aware of all of the factors considered by DHS in approving a petition. In addition, conoffs are normally less knowledgeable about the basis for petition eligibility than DHS personnel; they therefore should not jump to conclusions regarding petitions. In addition, conoffs should return petitions only where there is specific, material and clear evidence to provide the DHS a basis to initiate petition revocation procedures. Sufficiency of evidence 9. 9 FAM ''42.43, Procedural Note One states that when returning petitions for possible revocation, "The original petition, along with all supporting documents, shall be returned under cover of a Form DS-3096, Consular Return/Case Transfer Cover Sheet, and a memorandum supporting the recommendation for revocation. The report must be comprehensive, clearly showing factual and concrete reasons for revocation. The report must be well reasoned and analytical rather than conclusory. Observations made by the consular officer cannot be conclusive, speculative, equivocal or irrelevant." The criteria cited in this note derive from the Board of Immigration Appeals case, Matter of Arias, in which the Board determined that the memorandum supporting a petition return did not constitute "good and sufficient cause" for petition revocation, because it consisted of "observations of the consular officer that are conclusory, speculative, equivocal, or irrelevant to the bona fides of the claimed relationship". 10. Memoranda supporting petition returns should be scrutinized carefully and objectively, bearing in mind that they may become relevant in litigation. The memoranda should be based on specific factual evidence, rather than conclusions, and should be clearly reasoned. For example, a statement that unnamed neighbors told a fraud investigator that a couple was not married is likely to be viewed as of relatively little value compared to a statement that names the neighbors, explains the nature of their relationship to and knowledge of the couple, and sets out the specific facts that led to the conclusion that the couple was not married. Signed statements are of greater value than second hand reports. Where a statement is prepared in English by a non-native English speaker, it should be proofread carefully. Posts can consult with CA/VO/L/A on cases where there are questions or concerns over the sufficiency of evidence cited in the memo supporting a petition return. Notice to Applicant 11. INA 212(B) requires the conoff in most cases to "provide the alien with a timely written notice that- (A) states the determination, and (B) lists the specific provision or provisions of law under which the alien is inadmissible." 9 FAM 42.81 Procedural Note one instructs the conoff to provide: "1) The provision(s) of law on which the refusal is based; (2) The factual basis for the refusal (unless such information is classified); (3) Any missing documents or other evidence required; (4) What procedural steps must be taken by the consular officer or Department; and (5) Any relief available to overcome the refusal." 12. There are legitimate reasons why in some cases a conoff should not release all information relating to a visa refusal; such reasons could include classification of the information, confidentiality concerns, the need to protect an informant, or the "third agency rule" (information from another agency should only be released with that agency''s permission). However, absent such considerations, conoffs should provide the applicant with the full factual basis for a visa refusal, as well as a reasonable opportunity to overcome the finding. This is particularly important to ensure that the Department''s interests are protected in any subsequent litigation. It is important that conoffs maintain a record at Post showing that Post provided a written notice of the legal ground for refusal to the applicant, and, if possible, the factual basis for the refusal (this will normally consist of a copy of the OF-194). Conoffs are also reminded that in accordance with 9 FAM 42.81 Procedural Note 9, and 41.53 Note 2.3, copies of returned petitions and all other relevant material must be retained at Post. Additional Considerations 13. Post''s requests for petition revocation are often based upon investigation results. Consular managers should ensure that their fraud prevention programs actively tie investigations to legally-pertinent factual questions, and that they are likely to produce concrete evidence. In other words, if an investigation that confirms conoff''s suspicions will not serve to allow DHS to revoke the petition, post is not managing its investigations effectively. Posts can find useful guidance on managing investigations and other aspects of fraud prevention at CA/FPP''s intranet site at http://intranet.ca.s...fpp/fpphome.htm. In accordance with the guidance in 9 FAM 40.63 Note 10.1, where there is evidence that the petition was approved based on fraud, the fraud cannot be considered to be material until the petition is revoked, and therefore while post can enter such cases into CLASS as P6CI, post should not pursue a 6C finding until the petition is revoked or abandoned. As stated in 9 FAM 40.4 note 10.1, post should be aware that any evidence presented to DHS in support of a petition revocation may be passed to the petitioner as part of the petition revocation procedures. Finally, Posts should review 9 FAM 40.51 Note 10 on the handling of petitions where there is evidence that a labor certification was obtained by fraud or material misrepresentation.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-27 08:28:00
Middle East and North Africa	Someone needs ME/NA Help in K1 forum	I came across a plea for help in the K-1 forum. This lady got a 221 (g) from Morocco!!! http://www.visajourn...showtopic=23762	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-27 05:51:00
Middle East and North Africa	HE GOT HIS VISA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	HELLO (GOOD MORNING) 2:30 AM MY TIME. FAISAL GOT HIS VISA AFTER A LONG HARD INTERVEIW. MABROUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUK, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. HE WILL HAVE HIS VISA AND PASSPORT IN 5 DAYS. I LOVE HIM AN DI LOVE IT CONGRATULATIONS!!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-26 06:13:00
Middle East and North Africa	SEND CONGTATS TO MERIAM:) HACHEMI IS COMING ON 8/12!!!!!	CONGRATS MERIAM!!!!!!!!! I am so happy for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congratulations!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-08-01 06:08:00
Middle East and North Africa	Countdown for Hicham's arrival	Thanks guys!!! I am so nervous for him traveling once I see him in Los Angeles I'll believe it! Yay for Omid too who is one day after us. Then Rose next week. Thanks so much you guys are so sweet. Please don't forget to give us happy updates although i know you'll be busy. It's just so inspiring for us waiting to see a happy ending. Congratulations to you and best wishes for what's to come.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-08-01 06:06:00
Middle East and North Africa	OMG! OMG! OMG!	OMG!!! I just recieved email notification of NOA2 from CSC!!! It says we were approved yesterday!!! So now, I guess it goes to NVC. I know this has been covered a million times, but I'm asking anyway.... and yes, I will look at the guides later when I have more time - but.... WHAT NOW???????? What is the next step? I need to get my ####### in gear! I literally bounced off my chair at work I'm so excited I don't know what to do w/ myself!!! HOLY MOLEY! NOURA............. CONGRATULATIONS NOURA!!!! WTG	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-08-02 05:29:00
Middle East and North Africa	Finally	I received the email that our I-130 was approved yesterday Congratulations!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-08-03 05:39:00
Middle East and North Africa	I GOT THE VISAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA	Guys I can't sleep befor I tell you how was my intevriew let me tell you the story fo my intevriew it was good but the woman checked every single evidence I had very carefully ..she is the same CO who denied my visitor visa 8 month ago "funny" well I wiated infront of the embassy in along line I was infront of the embassy at 6:30 A.M for my interview at 9 A.M or 8 A.M as the webiste said it's9 while the letter said it's 8 .. then I get in and I was dying of fear I was really hardly able to breathe and I felt horrible ..I was trembling while i was sitting there waitin ..Cairo embassy is really busy OMg very crowded !!.. Then when I get in the embassy "they let me in with my 4 big albums though",,they gave me a no i was NO 13 of IV ..then I sit and wiated till Egyptian woman at window 8 called my number and I went there and she saw the big folders I had and the 4 Albums and she said "OMG what is all this" I said " It's my wedding photos and photos with my husband would you like to see it she said yeah " SHe is is not the CO" and I showed it to her she was very nice ...she liked our photos alot ....and she took my passport and my appointement letter and she told me to go pay the TNT thing ...and then she said I should wait till the CO call for me..so I went to TNT section happily" asking the guy he sid all people pay these TNT fees wether they go tthe visa or not",,, But after talkin to this woman I felt better ,I thought they are rude and bad but she was really nice...then waiting and wiating and waiting for 4 hours till CO called my name " I heard her saying Salwa" I found out i heard her wrong and that window was for visitor visa and there was another Salwa ..this CO she was American with very beautiful eyes ..she said can you see you application with the photo whil eshe was smiling I said joking" OH Iam with very ugly photo " she laughed ...then she never find my application and then asked for my full name and found out I heard wrong and that Visitor visa window ..lol then I go back again people leaves and some get the visa and other don't!!!! and I was like in the last few people left I start to worry " what happpened did they forget about me " then after long waiting the CO call my name at window 11...I go carrying my very big folders and papers and albums ..I look to see the same CO who was not nice to me in my interview at the visitor visa .. and incontrst she was smiling this time all the time and asked me alot of questions and she checked every single evidence I had ..she never asked for it but whenevr I ask if she likes to see it she say "yes Ma'am please" so I showed it to her all...she saw my phone call records and she checked it carefully and Mark's copy of his passport and she really checked the dates he was stamped at for Egyptian visas to amke sure I was saying teh truth and he did visited me 3 times and she checked my emails and his emails and Ikobo reports and the Trips Itinaries ...all and then she saw our engagemnt photo and then wedding photos and then she asked to see photos of us with family I showed her the other album and told here this where my dad and mum and mark so she smiled and never looked at the rest of the photos ... then she asked what's my husband job ? I replied and she asked me when did he get ivorced and I replied and asked me abotu his son custody ...I replied ..then I told her that my husband is a caver too and we will go caving together and showed her the copy of his interview in a magzaine of caving and his photo there and him talking about me ..and then she smiled as uaual..then she asked if i ever have been to US I said I applied for visitor visa in Dec but it got denied ...she smiled and said Ma'am you will recieve your visa in a week or 10 days ..I was shocked HAPPY..and she smiled and saw how happt I was and I asked if i can book before i recieve the visa she said no don't book your ticket till you recieve the visa ...and that was it guys so It was an easy interview she checked on everything I had ..everything... If you are going through Cairo ..YOU must be READY Iam very very happy ad Jean and Amy I hope you will hear good news sooooooon so we will all be happy ..I will pray for you Salwa Congratulations Salwa!!!!!!!!! I am so happy for you girl.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-08-02 05:35:00
Middle East and North Africa	221 (g)	I don't think I know of Ellis's case no, i'll search, thanks. I may have a case number. It would be news to me though if I do. I hope not. I don't think the beneficiary and I have been properly introduced yet. That's a red flag for consular officers, if the petitioner and beneficiary haven't been properly introduced. If I learn what my case number is, I'll post more often here and keep y'all apprised of how the case is progressing and how the beneficiary performs at the interview, whoever she might be and wherever that interview might be held. Last time I checked though, I haven't petitioned for anyone. Am I mistaken or is Ellis an immigration attorney who posts here on occasion? Now & then I think he does. Well, nice to meet the infamous ellis-island mystery man... Hello there	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-08-05 07:05:00
Middle East and North Africa	221 (g)	I FOUND IT!!!! Lol... not that it clarifies anything much at all, but from what I have been reading it is related to AR Heres the link: http://www.uscis.gov...ument-frame.htm your paving your road to becoming an immigrations attorney. keep up the good work... You know, not a bad career choice, but geez, after my own immigration ordeal is over, i don't think i'll ever be able to hear of immigration again. I have learned some interesting things here though. I have seen others get caught by these officers techniques. A few interview tips, If your fiance has relatives in the US, (and they will ask), be sure the CO is clear on the nature of your relationship to those relatives, and when if ever you met them. If it was before you met your fiance, you may have problems. If your fiance introduced you after you met your fiance, be clear about that too. They automatically assume if your fiance has relatives here and you knew them before him, you had an arranged marriage. Never ever under any circumstances if you have sent them money (wire transfer etc) or they to you, use those receipts as "proof of relationship". They see that as "buying a spouse". Any exchange of money either way is a sign of a scam marriage under their code. (one of the ladies i mentioned earlier used this) Be sure your fiance knows the name of your former spouse, and the date your divorce was finalized. They will ask, and for whatever their reasoning, they believe he should know it. If one or the other divorce proceedings were not finalized when you met your fiance, be very careful and cautious as to the "date of your engagement". If you were engaged or entered into contract with your current fiance before your or his divorce is final, you will be found ineligible and denied. (this was why the other lady I knew was denied. Her fiance had been married in his early years and although he only lived with her a year, had begun divorce proceedings, my friend and he had their engagement ceremony before that divorce was final). It is just sad, I see these interview topics as major trick points and traps that a lot of us have or could easily fall into unawares. I mean, before reading that manual, I had discussed the circumstances of why my previous marriage failed with my fiance, but never thought to share the ex's name. I never imagined how much my fiance and I know of each other would be judged by such a silly fact. And my sweetie has 2 half brothers here in the US, both in college, one in texas, the other south carolina. The one in texas, i have never met or spoken to, but the one in south carolina, i chat with, email, and he calls me regularly. My fiance introduced me to his brother, not the other way around. But I can see how this can be used as an interview trap. Example: CO - Do you have any relatives in the US? Fiance - yes two brothers, both in college, one in texas and one in south carolina. CO - Does your fiance know and have contact with your brothers there? Fiance - The one in texas no, she has never known, but the other yes they talk regularly (fiance thinking this is a GOOD thing, showing family support) CO then heads onto other questions, assumes marriage was arranged, denial. We sit around wondering why what went wrong for months being given no answer. NIGHTMARE!!! OMG...this is exactly what happened to us! We had no idea it would even be considered that his sister in the US arranged our marriage, but that is exactly what they are thinking. Even proof isn't enough. I have his original interest sent to me on the dating website that we met each other, it is dated 11/19/03, they didn't even want to see it or anything else for that matter. The first time I talked to his sister was around 2 months after we met. They didn't look at any of our proof, just poof, no visa, no explanation, nothing. This is a trap. The stupid thing is if you had no contact with his family they would think it is a fraud marriage as well. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. My thought would be that to avoid the mess we are in now is to address all of your red flags with the initial petition, don't wait for the interview. If I could do it again I would have sent them a letter explaining all of our red flags. The age difference, the sister in Texas, which I had no idea was a red flag. Its a shame that we can't know these things in advance on how to do it right the first time, but having no experience with immigration who would know. Thanks for posting this, it has been very insightful, and I hope it can help at least one person going through this journey to avoid the nightmare that so many of us from Morocco are going through. I'm sorry you had to endure that, as I was reading about relatives here of the fiance it just clicked. Sadly, it seems they will use any trap, and I hope to find a way for my fiance to address that question fully in one answr, but who think it's a bad thing??? Anyhow, not as if we have tons of time to read and study all the whys and how to's of being a tricky CO... I do recommend all going through this to at least scan the pages for information pertinent to your case and hopefully find a way to overcome it ahead of time. Knowledge is power they say. I am sooooooooo happy for you today btw chi, everytime i thought of your success at work, it made me smile. TY	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-25 17:57:00
Middle East and North Africa	221 (g)	I FOUND IT!!!! Lol... not that it clarifies anything much at all, but from what I have been reading it is related to AR Heres the link: http://www.uscis.gov...ument-frame.htm your paving your road to becoming an immigrations attorney. keep up the good work... You know, not a bad career choice, but geez, after my own immigration ordeal is over, i don't think i'll ever be able to hear of immigration again. I have learned some interesting things here though. I have seen others get caught by these officers techniques. A few interview tips, If your fiance has relatives in the US, (and they will ask), be sure the CO is clear on the nature of your relationship to those relatives, and when if ever you met them. If it was before you met your fiance, you may have problems. If your fiance introduced you after you met your fiance, be clear about that too. They automatically assume if your fiance has relatives here and you knew them before him, you had an arranged marriage. Never ever under any circumstances if you have sent them money (wire transfer etc) or they to you, use those receipts as "proof of relationship". They see that as "buying a spouse". Any exchange of money either way is a sign of a scam marriage under their code. (one of the ladies i mentioned earlier used this) Be sure your fiance knows the name of your former spouse, and the date your divorce was finalized. They will ask, and for whatever their reasoning, they believe he should know it. If one or the other divorce proceedings were not finalized when you met your fiance, be very careful and cautious as to the "date of your engagement". If you were engaged or entered into contract with your current fiance before your or his divorce is final, you will be found ineligible and denied. (this was why the other lady I knew was denied. Her fiance had been married in his early years and although he only lived with her a year, had begun divorce proceedings, my friend and he had their engagement ceremony before that divorce was final). It is just sad, I see these interview topics as major trick points and traps that a lot of us have or could easily fall into unawares. I mean, before reading that manual, I had discussed the circumstances of why my previous marriage failed with my fiance, but never thought to share the ex's name. I never imagined how much my fiance and I know of each other would be judged by such a silly fact. And my sweetie has 2 half brothers here in the US, both in college, one in texas, the other south carolina. The one in texas, i have never met or spoken to, but the one in south carolina, i chat with, email, and he calls me regularly. My fiance introduced me to his brother, not the other way around. But I can see how this can be used as an interview trap. Example: CO - Do you have any relatives in the US? Fiance - yes two brothers, both in college, one in texas and one in south carolina. CO - Does your fiance know and have contact with your brothers there? Fiance - The one in texas no, she has never known, but the other yes they talk regularly (fiance thinking this is a GOOD thing, showing family support) CO then heads onto other questions, assumes marriage was arranged, denial. We sit around wondering why what went wrong for months being given no answer. NIGHTMARE!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-25 06:04:00
Middle East and North Africa	221 (g)	I FOUND IT!!!! Lol... not that it clarifies anything much at all, but from what I have been reading it is related to AR Heres the link: http://www.uscis.gov...ument-frame.htm	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-07-24 18:05:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Case Filing and Progress Reports	How many times have you visited your fiance?	every 6 months 1 visit is enough for k1 but another visit while in the visa process is a gold mine! super outgoing relationship proof We believe that pictures of you together with the non-USC family is helpful too.	Brad and Vika	Male	Ukraine	2011-08-14 12:24:00
K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Case Filing and Progress Reports	How many times have you visited your fiance?	I have a similar question. Me and my fiance met and developed our relationship while I lived in his country for 5 months. But, since returning to US I have not been back and don't plan on going back for another visit until he gets his visa. As long as we met in person, visiting doesn't matter, right? Correct, as long as the last time you were together was less than two years before filing.	Brad and Vika	Male	Ukraine	2011-08-11 09:46:00