Forum	Title	Content	Member	Sex	Country	Date/Time
Middle East and North Africa	Docs to translate	Ok ladies, quick question. Getting ready for interview in Casa, the attorney did all the paperwork, medical was fine. But I know we need certain docs translated. We have the birth record translated, the police report, but what about the passport? Does it have to be translated? Thanks We had the birth certificate and police report translated, but not the passport. Thanks everyone, one less thing to worry over is good.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-01 16:38:00
Middle East and North Africa	Docs to translate	Ok ladies, quick question. Getting ready for interview in Casa, the attorney did all the paperwork, medical was fine. But I know we need certain docs translated. We have the birth record translated, the police report, but what about the passport? Does it have to be translated? Thanks	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-01 07:11:00
Middle East and North Africa	The Notion is back...	Hi ladies. So Youssef has been slipping further and further into depression here, with no word on his green card or AP. As he left this afternoon he said, "The day I open the mailbox and there's something in there for me will make me so happy" and a tear rolled down his face. I couldn't even give him a hug (his strict Ramadan restrictions ). Needless to say I'm really bummed out by the cruddy job market I've been experiencing here as well. I'm a university graduate who can't get a full time job *sigh*. So I have a job secured at the American Language Center in Marrakech whenever I want to take it, and Youssef's brother in law works for the Moumia hotel in Marrakech and can almost guarantee him getting a job there (especially with his English skills now). I started looking for apartments in Marrakech today and I'm really seriously considering going back. I am however worried about jeopardizing his returning to the US. Obviously it would be much easier if he had his citizenship here but I don't know how 3 more years will last. It would be incredibly nice to have the help of his sisters there with the kids and I really want to learn Arabic and possibly get my Masters from Al Akhwan in Ifrane. I guess I'm really scared to make the step - esp. immigration wise. What would our recourse be if my husband wanted to return to the US with me? Would it be filing DCF there or would they see that we abandoned the petition and deny us? I'm sorry to hear your husband is having a hard time right now. You guys have a lot going on, the stress and adjustment of a new dependant little family member is enough to cause most couples issues, but he has had 2 huge life altering changes in one year. And you sweetie, just after having a baby should not press yourself emotionally or mentally to make any life altering decisions right now. Perhaps you could set a goal, that you can all look toward as a deadline. Say babies 1st birthday, if you still both feel uncomfortable here and want, then plan a move. In my work, I help place refugees and immigrants in their first homes in america. And these people come from horrendous circumstances in their home countries. I placed 16 Uzbekies in an 8 apartment building this year. They made the mistake of having a peaceful protest in their town square when the military was ordered to open fire on the crowd. They watched friends and family die before their eyes as they fled for their own lives and into the border. They never have the option of returning, but still those first 6 months, they could think of little else but being "home". Now, finally, they are beginning to think of america as their home, but really it usually takes about 2 years for the true adjustment to set in, in most cases. Good luck to you, whatever you decide, I wish you peace and comfort.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-02 06:53:00
Middle East and North Africa	Interview Jitters	you both sound pretty darn prepared.... can't think of anything else... good luck and stay positive - that helps a lot, I think! And it doesn't hurt to ask anyone you know (who is supportive of your relationship) to say extra prayers for you at this time. I have many Catholic/Christian clients who said rosaries for us and offered us up in their Bible study classes for prayer. I felt very much "in God's hands" with all of that. I am thankful for any prayers regardless of creed, believe me. Wish I knew the name of the visa God/dess myself...hmmmm You have done very well in preparing your case Now the only thing left is to continue to support and reassure your fiance, as he is even more nervous than you. Make sure he understands the importance of responding to questions in a calm, courteous, confident manner, even if the questions seem insulting, and even if the CO seems rude. Make sure he understands what a 221g is, and exactly what it means. It is likely that he will receive this paper after the interview, and it will likely indicate that additional administrative processing (most likely security check) is required before the visa can be issued. The wording can be very scary -- it looks a lot like a denial to the uninitiated -- so make sure to explain it to him. Best of luck on the Big Day -- insha'allah he will have an easy time at the consulate. Can't wait to hear your report --- we're all cheering for you !!! -MK You are right, the 221 is scary, I think it was atbir who posted his word for word last week, i'll look it up, copy/paste it to him and hopefully relieve some anxiety. I have told him, that AFTER the interview, don't hesitate to be pushy and outright ask if he got the visa or not so there are no misunderstandings. and don't forget to breathe! You have good advice already posted here. sounds like you will be fine, but I know how this process and the unknown can get to each of us. Hang in there and know we are here. Lol... thanks for the reminder, i was getting a little blue, air is good. It sounds like you have a strong case....relax (yeah right!) The only other question I can think of that they could possibly ask is if he has relatives in the US. If he does then he will need to be prepared to answer questions on any type on contact you have or haven't had with them. As WOM stated, I think the only thing would be the possiblity of a 221g. The wording is scary, but if he gets it he needs to read their notes, that is the key. Almost all of the time these are mere security checks, so standard, nothing to fear. I keep warning my husband that he might get the 221g again on his second interview, simple AP, and I have stressed it is nothing to worry about, but trying to explain that to someone who doesn't have a complete graps of the english language yet is not an easy task. sonicliz feel free to use whatever may help, I learned it all here though. The experiences of those interviewing in casa no matter the outcome is priceless to us going through and I can not thank all of you who have shared enough. Thanks to everyone for the lucky wishes, and hugs, i do feel a bit out of my mind this week. Morocco4ever, I did think of that too, and any others going through note this, if your fiance has family here it is very important to include the nature of your involvement with them. I have heard of misinterpretations on the consulars part that were devastating for couples. My fiance has 2 half brothers here, one on his moms side, one on his dads, both on student visas in seperate states. I have never spoken to the one, the other I included our first chat (his brother and mine) and my fiance introducing us which took place months after i met my fiance. The chat records do include date and time. you seem both well prepared I wish you good luck when is your interview?? Najia Wednesday 10/11/06	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-09 17:14:00
Middle East and North Africa	Interview Jitters	Thanks all, I am seriously having anxiety attacks these days. Can't eat, can't sleep... I took on a major remodeling project doing a faux finish in my living room (in my spare time after my 9-5 job) just so that my body is exhausted and has no choice but to sleep at nights. Here is our case history on file There is 3 1/2 year age difference I have been married and divorced twice, he has never married I have 3 kids, he has none I'm only 33 and we do plan on having a child/children together We met online 3/11/2005 (he i'med me about a poem in my profile) We met in person 3/11/06 (Could have been sooner but I was a chicken) We were formally engaged at a ceremony in Morocco 3/14/06 We talk daily via webcam, mic, emails(have printed record of all beginning 3/11/05)... He calls me through yahoo pc to phone (have printouts of call history from april 06 to now)... We send cards, letters, and packages via postal mail (he has all the ones I sent him, including ones from the children)... He has my cell phone records where I called him. We have pictures of me and his family, me and him during our time there. He has proof of US address, I already added him to our lease He has updated letters of intent We did use an attornety for all the papers He can answer quickly all questions we have practiced: Who is the petitioner? When/how did you first meet your fiance? When did you meet your fiance in person? Where does your fiance work? What does she do there? How much money does your fiance make? Date of Hire How many times was she married and divorced, Dates of divorces, Names of exhusbands, why did she divorce? How many children does she have, Full names, D/O/B's, ages Who has custody of your fiance's children? What is the name of your fiances mother/father/brothers, where do they live Your fiance's home phone number, cell number, home address What do you plan to do for work in the US? (he has 3 offers) Anything else I should prep him on? Thanks again, especially to everyone who has posted interview questions, they have helped enormously. I never would have thought to teach him divorce dates or names of ex husbands if not for you all.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-09 06:02:00
Middle East and North Africa	Good luck tomorrow for soul_encounter	I found some of the questions strange too really. When she was referring to everything "looking good" she was looking at the packet the attorney prepared. Not sure why it was good, but here is a rundown of the papers included: Cover letter detailing everything included New updated intent to marry letters (from both) Phone records (not all just random dates) The instruction sheet and interview date letter he received with his packet DS-156, Nonimmigrant Visa Application (2 copies) DS-156K, Nonimmigrant Fiance Visa Application Then the sponsor stuff they never even looked at That is it... Now new question I felt positive about the interview rundown he gave me, and she said they would call him in a week to 2 weeks. But now that I have seen the scanned document I am worried it may be longer. No, we did not get the standard 221 (g) our sheet is marked X Other: il y a un procedure adminitrative qui doit etre fait a washington avant de continuer. on va vous contacter par telephone. Ok... I can't read french, but I have heard nightmare stories of extended AP Can anyone elaborate? Is this the name check thing and will it really be over in a week or two? Thanks We got the same exact thing as you in French and got the visa less than 2 weeks after the interview. You can call DOS starting tomorrow to see if the checks are cleared. Don't worry, we had the same thing, and they wrote it in French cause he did his interview in French. BIG HUG!!! You made my morning Sounds like his interview went very well and he was very well prepared. Best of luck on a quick approval. Our papers are on the way to Cairo right now so hopefully we will be looking for an interview date in a few weeks. We are both excited, scared and soooo happy to be moving on towards the end of this process. I will keep you in my prayers soul_encounter for a quick VISA IN HAND for your SO!!!! Thanks and GOOD LUCK on your upcoming interview. Truthfully, just having that interview over, is a HUGE relief. Congratulations on your Successful Interview!!! Just in case you need the phone number for DOS it's (202) 663-1225 press 1,0,4,3,0. I wish I had been a little more Pro-ACTIVE last week! Our interview was September 22nd..we've been waiting for our phone call for 20 days now ( were told one week to two weeks by the consulor. ) I called DOS this morning and found out that security checks were completed and visa was printed October 3rd! Why is it October 11th. and still no phone call from Casa??? We've emailed them about 9 times since last Thursday...No response! I'm obviously really freakin frustrated! Moral of the story Calling DOS is a really good idea! Ohhhhh noooo.... I am sorry to hear that. They really are clueless as to what their negligence puts us through. But CONGRATS!!! and thank you thank you for the number, i'm adding it in my cell now. Hope your sweetie is home soon.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-12 05:39:00
Middle East and North Africa	Good luck tomorrow for soul_encounter	I found some of the questions strange too really. When she was referring to everything "looking good" she was looking at the packet the attorney prepared. Not sure why it was good, but here is a rundown of the papers included: Cover letter detailing everything included New updated intent to marry letters (from both) Phone records (not all just random dates) The instruction sheet and interview date letter he received with his packet DS-156, Nonimmigrant Visa Application (2 copies) DS-156K, Nonimmigrant Fiance Visa Application Then the sponsor stuff they never even looked at That is it... Now new question I felt positive about the interview rundown he gave me, and she said they would call him in a week to 2 weeks. But now that I have seen the scanned document I am worried it may be longer. No, we did not get the standard 221 (g) our sheet is marked X Other: il y a un procedure adminitrative qui doit etre fait a washington avant de continuer. on va vous contacter par telephone. Ok... I can't read french, but I have heard nightmare stories of extended AP Can anyone elaborate? Is this the name check thing and will it really be over in a week or two? Thanks	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-11 20:48:00
Middle East and North Africa	Good luck tomorrow for soul_encounter	Well.... ??? Ok ... i'm still a bit nervous knowing casa, and the streets there where my baby called were busy and loud, so I will get more Exact details later. First, he got the "japanese" lady. Said she was very nice all the way through. They called him back, put the thing on his finger, she began with "Who is the petitioner?" He answered with my name (thanks for that one noura I would never have thought to teach him the english definition for 'petitioner' if not for you) She told him his case looked "very good" when going through the papers Questions When did you meet your fiance Where Were you talking to a lot of women on the net What do you and your fiance talk about on the phone - he answered how our days were, how the children are doing, sharing funny stories and problems, etc She asked to see our pictures and he had them in an album too big to pass through the glass so he held it up and flipped pages for her to see. Do you have family in the US How many times has your fiance been married Divorced Who has custody of the children Where do your fiances exhusbands live (new one, did not study for it but he knew it) Will you be a good father to her children? - this was the last question, he said as he was answering, she stopped looking at the papers and looked just at him, listening - he answered "the hardest part of being far from the family i love, has been watching our babies wait for things their dads promised and never do, and seeing them sad. My mom and dad divorced when i was 2, i know that feeling and i want more than anything to take that hurt away from them." He said she smiled, stood up and said "thank you Mr. ___" He stopped her and said "Please Ms. my fiance is waiting for a call, what do I tell her?" She said "We will call you in 2 weeks." They exchanged a few more words at the end she said "I will call you next week" Now... it sounds promising, hopeful, but I still have that nagging doubt in my mind and probably will until he has that visa in hand. For all those going through, he said he watched a LOT of approvals and Najia for you - he told me All the women who were approved, got their visa that day, Good Luck!!! And......... they never even asked for the stinking affidavit of support i had drawn up 300.00 dollars and rush sent to morocco via DHL another 130.00 dollars after they wrote on his form they needed it... lol After my sweetie travels home, rests up, scans the letter to me etc i will get more specific details. Thank you all soooooooooooo much for the mojo and wishes, you ROCK!!!! Noura, i want to know when your sweetie has that visa in hand please...	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-11 07:15:00
Middle East and North Africa	Good luck tomorrow for soul_encounter	any news yet? this is abt the time I heard from Said - he was in & out pretty quick... should soon be time to celebrate! Not yet and i'm awake and waiting... *Sending "GIVE MY BABY THE VISA" vibes to casa. I'll let ya'll know soon	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-11 05:16:00
Middle East and North Africa	Good luck tomorrow for soul_encounter	Thanks sooooooooooooo much all. Just 7 hours and 14 minutes to go now and my sweetie will be in the embassy. I just saw him on the net, he is "excited", so cute and had me check the order of his papers one last time. I told him to relax, no matter what they say or do to not worry, just remember you are the most loved man in my world. (then I logged off and became a basket case...lol) I will set my alarm for 3:00am to call him quickly and just tell him how very loved he is again, then he's on his own. Now, with the help of nyquil I am forcing my mind to sleep for just a little. I just can't thank all of you who have shared your experiences here enough, we could never have made it this far without you. I will be posting news as soon as I hear, and return the favor others gave me.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-10 19:55:00
Middle East and North Africa	Good luck tomorrow for soul_encounter	Here's a big hug and some super MOJO going out to you! You both sound very prepared, I'm sure your interview will go just fine. Can't wait to hear your results! Thank you!!! If we just survive one more day, it'll be cake. I promise to post results and interview questions as soon as I hear. His interview is 8:00am Morocco time so hopefully by 8:00am EDT we know something. My poor baby can't pull his nose out of those papers despite my assurances he is answering everything perfectly. It hurts so much seeing him do this alone and not being able to hug him. If there was one thing I could do differently, it would have been saving vacation time to be there during this interview for him. Thanks again everyone for sharing all of your experiences and best wishes for success.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-10 05:37:00
Middle East and North Africa	So...didja ride a camel when you were there?	Mt friend and I were going to, my husband flat refused. When I got up close to them they smelled so bad that I almost threw up. Plus I was worried I would never get the smell off of me. Funny, I wanted NOOOO part of the camel after a guy stuck a stinking monkey right on my head! After that when asked if I wanted to go to the camels I said "you got the wrong girl baby"	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-12 09:53:00
Middle East and North Africa	Just Waitings Interview tomorror 3/23/06	It's a good month for visas... Good Luck!!! (((Hugs))) Try to sleep a little, (nyquil works somewhat)	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-12 18:08:00
Middle East and North Africa	Eid Clothes !!!!	Not sure exactly what you're looking for, but ironically a week ago I went to this site http://www.renukasil...s...9&curPage=2 and ordered an abaya. It was on clearance, 40.00, shipping DHL 12.00 and they customize to your size. Prices range from 25.00 to 300.00 Funny, my dress was at my door today when I got home, i just tried it on and am TOTALLY IN LOVE with it. Soooooo silky Well I don't think a pregnant woman would want to wear that but it's very pretty! You really got it in a week??? They usually take so long to ship to me! Lol... i'm sorry i didn't realize what dress it was on, i only meant to send the link to the site in general. You are quite right, that one will not work for pregnancy. Yes, I ordered 10/4/06 got it today.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-13 16:05:00
Middle East and North Africa	Eid Clothes !!!!	I NEED EID CLOTHES !!! Anyone have suggestions for a Muslim, pregnant, small girl ?? We went to a maternity store and everything looked so dumb on me My stomach isn't big enough for maternity .... yet it's too big for regular clothes. I tried on a few dresses with pants underneath and the tops were soooo tight they made my chest pop out which made Ali mad. Speaking of Ali .... that boy already has his Eid Clothes !!! He's sooo easy when it comes to shopping ... I'm the hard one. Any suggestions ?!?!?! Not sure exactly what you're looking for, but ironically a week ago I went to this site http://www.renukasil...s...9&curPage=2 and ordered an abaya. It was on clearance, 40.00, shipping DHL 12.00 and they customize to your size. Prices range from 25.00 to 300.00 Funny, my dress was at my door today when I got home, i just tried it on and am TOTALLY IN LOVE with it. Soooooo silky	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-13 15:38:00
Middle East and North Africa	Monday	Thanks everyone for your support. Please keep praying for us. Hello Yasi I can't begin to imagine your frustration, I am so sorry. I am not sure of everything you have or have not done, or what is within your means to do, but here is a link and an interesting part in it, (**WRIT OF MANDAMUS:) reminded me of you. http://www.usaimmigr...tiveReview.html	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-16 06:46:00
Middle East and North Africa	One call, that's all...	and WE GOT IT!!!!! ***THE CALL*** - it came today - 1 week after the interview. Still don't know for sure when he'll be coming, has to finish up work and all. The consulate called him to bring in his passport tomorrow! So, for those "in the know" - will he wait for the visa in passport or come back for it? AWESOME!!! Your my idol now Noura, i wanna follow in your shoes...lol WTG and hope he gets that ticket soon.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-12 09:51:00
Middle East and North Africa	Transportation Issues	It's not too hard to get a license here. You just need an SSN, and then be able to pass the written and driving test. only catch is, my fiance doesn't know how to drive! So'll I have to teach him! You live in San Antonio? Have you considered one of these? a bike would be great if we lived in one of the central areas I talked about (but those are either expensive or slummy). But SA is soooooo spread out. so that gets back to my original issue. should i take a slummy apartment so that transportation isn't an issue? or should I find a nice apartment that's in the middle of other apartments and no businesses or transportation? I work as a real estate/leasing agent for a property management company. My advice BEST advice to you is, "take your time". Don't rush into any apartment without checking the police district it is in for crime reports, talking to potential neighbors, and shopping around. If you have time, wait until the end of November, December is even better, because turnovers almost hault in those months and management/landlords are jumping at that time to make you deals. If you do get a great place at a reduced rate due to the landlords vacancy end of the year dilemna (it happens I almost pay tenants to move in those last months) see about the possibility of signing a 2-3 year lease and lock in those reduced rents or they will inevitably raise it on you after the first year. If available call "large property management companies" as opposed to individual owners, adds in the paper, or real estate companies (commision is always a major mark-up). A property mangement company will have a wide range of apartments in all price ranges, areas of town etc. We have everything from low-income housing to high end condos and brand new homes. Also, a management company isn't looking for a large initial commision, they make money off of extended management contracts and the leasing fees are included in that.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-14 21:10:00
Middle East and North Africa	Consulate interview in Casa	This is a question specifically about going for the K-1 visa interview and how things happen- I know Casa sends out Packet 3 (no Packet 4) and my understanding is that the fiance does not send anything back, but brings everything with him/her to the interview (except the medical which is sent by the physican), correct? If this is correct, then the consulate only has the original evidence sent in with the original petition (it may or may not include evidecne of an on-going relationship) before the fiance arrives. yes? So when the fiance arrives doe she/she give the papers and evidence upon arrival before being called to for the actual interview? (i know there is a wait between arrival and the interview). If so what papers are turned in? Can you submit a file with the DOS forms, on-going evidence, etc? Or do you have to wait to show this evidence when called for the interview? What I am interested in is how to organize the papers to be submitted. Thanks for helping to clarify this. Packet 3 & 4 for morocco is one and the same, all inclusive. I had the attorney do ours, everything that casa requested on their list was sent in. Casa DID specifically list "intent to marry" so we did the letters over again, and "proof of ongoing relationship" so we included just a select few phone and chat records (probably 10 pages various dates) in with everything he handed in to the embassy on the day of his interview. He also took additional evidence, photos, cards, postal mail, complete email chat and phone logs in case asked for anything else.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-17 17:43:00
Middle East and North Africa	Question (mostly) for Moroccan Couples	This is mostly directed to the couples who have gone through Casablanca, but all advice is appreciated, regardless of the consulate you dealt with. How many of you had enagement ceremony photos to show the consulate? Did it help or hinder your case? We never had the time/opportunity do have a ceremony, so we're a little concerned about this being brought up by the consulate. We origionally planned to send 100's of ceremony photos and a video (it was a large gathering, 2 days). But after reading some of the stories here of how the CO's have sometimes confused the situation for a wedding, we decided to use ALL of the vacation/nonceremony photos and just a few of the ceremony itself. I made sure while in Morocco to get pictures of us together under a street sign of every city we visited, under a giant poster of the king, and several landmarks. They do want to see enough of a ceremony to show commitment, but not enough to overdo and think it was a wedding.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-18 05:37:00
Middle East and North Africa	Casa Called	"Bring the pasport" usually means the consulate is ready to issue the visa... so I will go ahead and say "Congratulations !!!" Hope they give it to him today instead of making him wait and come back. I think you should hear something from him soon -- can't wait to hear the happy news ! -MK Lol.. Thanks everyone!!!!!!!!! Well, after 3 hours of waiting in casa they did tell him "We have your visa, but there is no time today to put it in your passport, can you come back tomorrow to pick it up?" What's he gonna say but "Sure" He is at least relaxed a little now hearing them say they have the visa for him. So casa is speedy these days, but not that speedy. Actually, our interview was the 11'th, and the security checks were completed the 13'th, casa called the 17'th.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-18 12:01:00
Middle East and North Africa	Casa Called	Update, casa called my sweetie yesterday, said the checks were complete, can he come in today at 12:30 with his passport!!! Poor guy, hasn't gotten any sleep this week and he is the "worrier" type so he is still stressing. He said "But they didn't say 'You got the visa'" I told him, what do you think they want that passport for darling? He just says "We will see" Lol... his favorite phrase these days, we will see. Updates later Take care all	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-18 05:50:00
Middle East and North Africa	Another Countdown Thread!!!!!!	And I was getting jealous of some other trends thank you so much. I feel so wanted. You guys are great. Thank you so much. Please keep us in you du'aas. Wishing you both Good Luck for tuesday!!! Soon, soon soon	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-16 05:50:00
Middle East and North Africa	visa in hand	alhamdulillah I have the visa in my hands , I am very happy, I travel the 20 oct and I marry the 23 inshallah. alhamdulillah j'ai la vida a mis mains gracias al Dios tengo el visado en mis manos good luck to all WTG!!! Congrats	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-18 05:31:00
Middle East and North Africa	JP's Official Countdown Thread	Only........................26 hours to go! Is your man calm? I was a mess and Mohammed was so cool and collected. Jackie I talked to him earlier and he said he is fine. We are gonna talk one more time tonight. I wouldn't say that we are not worried but we are just not thinking about it. Whatever is in God's will is gonna happen, nothing we can do to change that. I'm glad he is calm, I don't want him freaking out. Praying for a smooth interview and speedy visa delivery. Good Luck!!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-18 19:21:00
Middle East and North Africa	Najia's Official Countdown Thread	Talk to you tomorrow girls i'll post my news as soon as i'll be back from the consulate thanks again for the encouragements... keep your prayers Good luck JP Najia Praying for you Najia!!! Say Hey to my sweetie, he will be there picking up his visa!!! Good Luck!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-18 19:22:00
Middle East and North Africa	Interview Date!!!	We got the date! It's November 20! Sooner than I expected! Don't you just love it when that happens? WOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO Oh yea!!! You are on your way now, believe me when I tell you time will fly so take advantage of every moment to get ready for his homecoming. Congrats	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-20 06:21:00
Middle East and North Africa	TGIF	I just hope it's not groundhog day (like the movie)- can't handle a repeat of yesterday. I'm starting to get a little nervous abt the workshop I'm hosting next week.... I feel the time creeping in on me now and little last minute things are piling up. So much to do now & time is running low! Happy Friday everyone. This too, shall pass. Noura Time is creeping on you, it vanished on me...lol Good luck Noura, and thanks again for everything.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-20 06:22:00
Middle East and North Africa	VISA IN HAND!!!!	Tuesday?? He's not wasting any time-hope you are ready. Congrats to you both!! THANK YOU EVERYONE!!! I have bit every last nail to a nub, did all my spring cleaning in the fall, been to every mall and store within 50 miles of here, laughed, cried, been an exhausted nervous wreck...lol I went out and bought "man things" to make him comfortable. Trial sizes of colognes, shaving creams, hair gels (he is picky about that hair gel) and every other thing under the sun I can imagine a guy will need. I even gave the dog a bath, clipped and painted her toenails so she will be pretty too and personally I have shaved places that have been neglected for months ... Lol... Anyhow, still a ton to do, need to drop off the comforters and pillows to be washed, have the oil changed in the car and fluids topped off, and and and ONLY 2 DAYS to go........ and my baby will be HOME	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-22 09:22:00
Middle East and North Africa	VISA IN HAND!!!!	That's wonderful news. Congratulations!!!! Meriem OMG!!!! My baby just called and woke me and he got his ticket!!!!!!!!! He is not coming thursday, his plane arrives this freaking TUESDAY!!! Ok, i'm a wreck now, so much to do.... deep breathes... Thanks so much everyone - ((((((HUGS))))))) All around	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-20 05:31:00
Middle East and North Africa	VISA IN HAND!!!!	HE GOT IT!!!! We are looking at flights for thursday. My baby is coming home to me.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-10-19 21:14:00
Middle East and North Africa	Moroccan Men & Foreign Brides	This article has some relevancy to the topic, imo. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Eye On The Middle East: Women, Not Just Wars, On Arab Media's Minds News Report, Jalal Ghazi, New America Media, Mar 14, 2006 Editor’s Note: While much attention is being paid to the war in Iraq, issues regarding women in the Middle East are also making headlines in Arab media, so reports NAM contributor Jalal Ghazi. Ghazi monitors and translates Arab media for New America Media, a project of Pacific News Service, and Link TV. UNMARRIED ARAB WOMEN CHASTISED BY THEIR SOCIETIES According to statistics provided by Arab media, the number of Arab women who do not get married after the age of 25 has been increasing dramatically. “A’nes” is an Arabic word used in reference to a woman who reaches a certain age without getting married. This term has a negative connotation. Women who are labeled as “a’wanes” (plural of A’nes) generally have considerably fewer chances of getting married. Social science expert, Hsham Hussein told Al Arabiyah Television Channel that western countries also see the marriage of older women as an odd thing, but labeling women as a’wanes in the Middle East is very harmful. Women are constrained with many social taboos and stigmas and “are not allowed to live their lives normally.” Hussein added that the reasons behind this phenomenon might vary from one Arab country to another. People living in liberal Arab societies tend to wait longer before getting married, and they consider unmarried women to be a’wanes at a much older age than those of more conservative societies. Statistics provided by the Ministry of Social Affairs in Lebanon indicated that 83.2 percent of women between the ages of 25-30 and 5 percent of women over 34 are unmarried. In Syria 60 percent of the women between the ages 25-29 and 2.37 percent of women over the age 34 are unmarried. Muntaha Al Ramahi, an Al Arabeyah reporter, points out that Gulf countries have the highest rates of a’wanes. Approximately 35 percent of women in Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, and United Arab Emirates are a’wanes, and so are 30 percent in Saudi Arabia and 10 percent in Oman. The age of women at which they are considered a’wanes in the Gulf was not mentioned. Al Ramahi said that these high numbers prove that the problem is not economic because rich Gulf countries usually provide their youth with a lot of economic incentives to encourage them to get married The lowest percentage of a’wanes is in Gaza and the West Bank. Only 1 percent of Palestinian women tend to “miss the train of marriage,” Al Ramahi said. ARAB SOCIAL RESARCHERS BLAME WESTERN VALUES FOR PROBLEMS FACING WOMEN IN NORTH AFRICA Tunisian social researcher, Mahdi Bin Mabruk, told Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper that women are delaying their marriage as they are getting more influenced by western values. Mabruk said Tunisian women now aspire to achieve economic independence and liberate themselves from constraints imposed on them by their societies. “There is a change in social values,” he said. “Women have found new ways of achieving emotional satisfaction. Education and economic independence have become more important priorities than marriage”. However, this lifestyle has a price. According to Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper, 32 percent of the Tunisian women are considered a’wanes, up from 22 percent in 1994. Nadia is a 34 year-old Tunisian woman who works at the city municipality of Tunis. “I waited too long because I wanted to find true love,” she told Al Al-Quds Al-Arabi. “I spent seven years with a man, but he got married with a relative of his and now I have to deal with being a’nes. I regret this lifestyle because I wasted many years” A similar pattern is happening in Algeria. According to official statistics provided by the Algerian National Academy for Statistics, 11 million Algerian women are unmarried, including five million over the age 35. About 200,000 Algerian women become a’wanes every year. Moroccan official Ahmad Lhemi told Al-Quds Al-Arabi that he is puzzled with the unprecedented high numbers of unmarried Moroccan women, pointing out that almost all women under 24 years of age are unmarried. Dr. Aziz Ajbilo from the center of the Demographic Studies in Morocco told Al-Quds Al-Arabi that during the 1960s, women married at an average age of 17, and men married at an average age of 24. Now the average marriage age is 28 for women and 31 for men. Ajbilo added that the rate of fertility among women has decreased from seven children in 1960 to 2.5 in 2004. This phenomenon has also become a source of concern to many Morrocans, and some called it a disease of “Western influence.” Others point to economic problems: Moroccan men have to save enough money to provide a home and pay for the wedding, which can be a challenge for many. According AL Arabiyah television some Moroccan women are now seeking to marry non-Arabs. This is evident by the increase in the number of “Marriage Agencies” in Morocco. A 34-year-old woman visiting the agency told Al Arabiyah TV, “I’m frustrated with the social life around me. I had a failed experiment with a Moroccan man. So I came here. Eventually I met a Frenchman and we might get married next month”. JORDANIAN WOMEN HAVE A LONG STRUGGLE AHEAD OF THEM The Jordanian Interior Minister, Samir Al-Habashna told the Jordanian Television that the government cannot give citizenships to the husbands or children of Jordanian women who marry non-Jordanians. “The average Jordanian family is comprised of 6 members,” he explained. “If we give this right to 80 thousand Jordanian women who marry non- Jordanians, then we are talking about half a million people who will automatically receive Jordanian citizenships.” Jordanian lawyer Rima Abu Hassan, advocating for these women, strongly disagrees, saying “I heard Samir Al-Habashna’s justification, but the issue here is not about numbers, it is about giving women their rights. Article 6 of the Jordanian constitution says that all citizens are equal. Men and women should have equal rights.” In case of divorce, men with foreign citizenship have the rights to take the children from their mothers. Mothers have no right to ask for their children back because their children take on their father’s citizenship. Said Aber Al Zine, a Jordanian Television reporter, “Jordanian women are confronted with many other social problems due to the lack of rules that protect their rights and the absence of women’s voice when legislations are made.” According the Jordanian television, the International Institute for Women's Solidarity in Jordan has received an increasing numbers of battered women. One woman told the Jordanian television that, “When I told my husband that he should work and spend his money on our daughters - not in the coffee shop - he severely beat me.” Lawyer Rima Abu Hassan said that the government has established “Social Protection Homes” to provide safe refuge for battered women, but there are not sufficient spaces to receive all battered women, especially those with children. As a result women who are sexually abused are provided with services, and battered women are often turned away. Many Jordanian women especially in rural areas are also victimized by “honor killings,” which are usually committed by male family members against women suspected of engaging in adultery. The Al-Quds Al- Arabi reported that 19 women were killed in honor crimes last year. According to article 98 of the Jordanian penal code, men tend to receive a sentence ranging from three months to one year in jail for committing honor killings. EGYPTIAN WOMEN ARE PUSHED OVER THE EDGE Yes, women also beat their husbands! That was the conclusion of a study of spousal violence conducted by the Dialogue and Development Center in Egypt. According to Al Arabiyah Television Channel, the study analyzed all stories published about spousal abuse in Egyptian Newspapers for the last six months of 2005. One Al Arabiyah reporter said, “The results were surprising.” It turned out that women had committed 111 crimes against men (85 homicides, 15 thefts, and 11 beatings).”In contrast men committed 172 crimes against women,(150 homicides, 13 attempted homicides, and 9 beatings). Saed Abdel-Hafiz from the Dialogue and Development Center and who conducted the study told the Al Arabiyah television: “We always hear about women poisoning their husbands because it enables them to avoid physical confrontations, but women are also becoming more creative. Some inject their husbands with poisonous substances, while others use simple household products like hair dye.” Although the results revealed that men were still ahead in committing crimes against their wives, the study created a lot of controversy, which was evident in the headlines in the Egyptian Newspapers. “Husbands Massacre,” “Men are victims of the Soft Hands,” and “By poison, Choking, Kicking, Boxing and Severe Beating--- Women Respond to Verbal Abuse,” are some of the headlines. Said Abdel-Hafiz, “the study results were surprising because they reveal an increase in violence committed by women. They committed only sixty less crimes than men in a period of six months.” Nazic Nasir, a professor of social science in the American university in Cairo, believes that women are pushed to use violence because, “they have to deal with injustices and abuses. And they have no agencies to turn to for help in getting out of their unhealthy situations.” According to Najad Alberie, secretary general of the Democratic Development Organization, “Women beating their husbands are not a new phenomenon. Researchers tend to make mistakes because they tend to base their research on data acquired from local police departments. But men often are ashamed to make a police report if they are physically abused. In reality many men are beaten by women.” Alberie also said that wives who are subjected to beatings have to make a police report because that is the only way for them to be able get divorced from their husbands. Husbands, on the other hand, can divorce their wives anytime they want. http://news.pacificn...23aa82519d781b4 ******************************* This article is great. I think the world will see a lot more drastic changes in these countries in the next few years regarding women. You know, one thing I observed in my time in morocco, was the fact that everywhere we went, it was mainly young "women" working, while there was an extraordinary amount of young "men" lazing around unemployed. When asking my fiance about this, he replied "The owners prefer to hire the women. They work hardly and take less money than a man." Hmmmm hey moroccan gals, they know you are great employees, now work on "equal pay". Too, both of my fiances sisters, ages 23 and 24 are unmarried, and neither have a desire to be married as of yet as they are both pursuing furthering education. One just turned down a male suitor and was totally supported by her family in doing so. My mother - in - law to be, is in her 50s married twice divorced twice, and guess what, has a bf...lol So cute.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-27 06:13:00
Middle East and North Africa	My Love Is Home!!!	He has been here for one beautiful week... I have finally gotten over the "unreality" of it and we are settling in. Good Luck to everyone still waiting, and just remember, it really does happen. Oneday, you will be living day to day life with your love. P.S. For K1-ers be sure your SO knows a "marriage date" before arriving at POE. It was important. They were rough in chicago with the questioning, but not so long as to make him miss his next flight.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-11-01 06:10:00
Middle East and North Africa	interview approved	Congrats!!! CONGRATS!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-11-21 06:06:00
Middle East and North Africa	MOROCCO MONDAY -- Add Your ME/NA MOJO !!!	CONGRATS TO ALL!!!	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-11-21 06:08:00
Middle East and North Africa	Pride or Hubris?	I loved the article and expression of opinions and views by this author. Just one thing I would like to add, and feel he should have added in his list of "pro" america. We do have the right and freedom to publicly express our ideas and views, even when they go against the grain, even when they go against the government and this is all too often a freedom we take for granted. What would happen in Morroco if an author publicly criticized the king? All countries have their flaws, i'm just glad to be in one where I have the right to ###### about what I don't like *smiles*. Ohhh and my sweetie would like to add "central heating" to americas list of pro's....lol Good article, thanks for posting	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-12-02 09:16:00
Middle East and North Africa	Administrative Processing	I'm just curious if we should listen to the estimates of how long AP lasts. The COs tell people such different times - today for example, they told my fiance 6-7 days, but they told someone else 7-10 days. I know they've told some people 2 weeks, and others 2 months. What's the deal? And have they been accurate in those estimates in the past? Have some people gotten it earlier than the estimate? (yeah right!) and for anyone who got it later than the time estimate they gave you, how much longer was it? And how would they know ahead of time how long someone's will take - "oh you'll get 10 days," "oh that guy will get two months." I don't get it, unless some of the AP has been done prior to the interview already. Thanks for any help, and sorry if this is incoherent, I didn't really sleep well last night! Ok, good night all! We were told 1-2 weeks and it cleared checks in 2 business days, he was called in 4 business days to come back for visa.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-11-21 06:06:00
Middle East and North Africa	Slightly sensitive Muslim topic re: Ramadan :) (ladies only please)	Well, I am glad to learn at least that this is not a black and white issue. I have trouble when there is no grey. Interesting topic and posts all. I am not muslim, and have no substantial knowledge of Quran to base these ponderings on, but while reading your posts and ideas, another perspective on "why" these things may not have been allowed occured to me. One which you ladies with a more "feminist" view may appreciate. In the time when all these laws on what is and is not allowed were set forth, paganism was still very ingrained in the thinking and day to day superstitions of the people. Women, were the ultimate "creators" being the ones to carry and create new life. It is believed in many religions, that during a womans cycle she is extremely powerful and her thoughts will manifest much more readily and easily. Perhaps this was a way of balancing the scales of equality in the male favor during that time as the woman was already thought to be in a heightened state of spiritual power. Also, many forms of mysticism teach the initiate to take caution during times of "altered senses" (menstration being one of those) when observing certain meditations, spiritual exercises or even reading spiritual content for which ones mind may not be ready to take in. Knowledge is power and under certain altered states, spiritual doorways may be opened for which one may or may not be prepared to handle. Certainly we have all heard stories of dementia occuring in those who pushed their minds to great genius in their lives. I am in no way saying this "IS" the reason ladies, so hopefully no one is offended here... Merely just some alternative thoughts. As someone here said, there are reasons for which God knows beyond our understanding.	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-09-30 08:01:00
Middle East and North Africa	When you marry or married your SO...	I did indeed change my name. Something about it has that "two becoming one" ring to it.	Itsmeitsmeitsree!	Female	Wales	2006-07-31 20:22:00
Middle East and North Africa	Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics	oh god! NOT THIS GAME AGAIN. if you are married say your married stop playing the " lets pretend we are not game" no one learned nothing from golden heart. this is bad!!! BE HONEST TELL THE TRUTH! its harder to be DISHONEST than to be HONEST!!! once you LIE - you have to keep on LYING ... all for a bloody K-1? your gonna risk getting a bann. dayum that is selfish. I happen to be one of the most selfless people on earth fyi... If I go out and hire some elvis here in the USA to perform a marriage ceremony for me and my fiance without first applying for a marriage certificate, am I then married? And were I to go around shouting "we're married we're married" when neither the USA or Morocco sees it that way, wouldn't that be the real lie? I simply want to know from the experience of others here who have used and not used their ceremony pictures, how the experience went for them. Have you or your fiance had an interview in morocco for K1? Did you have a ceremony in morocco before filing your K1? and if so, did you or did you not use photos from it and how was that experience from your point of view? well how about learning a little knowlege.. if you are MARRIED you cant COME on K-1 visa!~~ your cheating by failing to registar the marriage! which you know is illegal. you keep the game going by hiding your own pics. I hope everyone that plays that game get CAUGHT!!!!! saddly those Unknowingly get caught too. but you are KNOWINGLY trying to FRAUD.. Hince the TITLE of your TOPIC. when you LIE you have to keep on LYING and one more thing- The embassy DOES conduct Field investigations. if they ask neighbours if you married and they say yes- your goose is cooked! if you go in this with clean hands - you should have no problems smooth sailing. here is a grim reminder: http://www.visajourn...h...c=15648&hl= Thankfully, most here on this forum are supportive and helpful in giving advice. You would think, in a place such as this, with relationships such as these, there would be a lot less judgement and hate going around but oh well, the world is what it is. The reason I went the K-1 route, was because my sweetie is my "FIANCE" not as yet a husband. We did not have the ceremony so we could have sex together or to appease either of our religious preferences (neither of us are religious) and no religious offical was in presence or anyone else who is liscensed to perform any marriage rites. Nor were any marriage vows spoken, papers or contracts signed etc And we did not do it because we cared what anyone thought of us or our relationship. Nor did I know of or think that the K1 was faster as compared to a K3. We filed K1 at the recommendation of an attorney, I was in no way intending to cheat law or time by any means. We had it at the request of his 90+yr old grandma who wished to in some way before she died be able to see that ceremony. Also, before going I specifically asked my fiance several times if he was sure about the legalities of this ordeal and he assured me it was in no way religiously or legally a marriage. Do I feel or believe we are married before God, State, Country or have any rights to claim any of the rights of married persons (such as insurance etc) NO... I do not and neither does my fiance. Am I committed to him and him alone, YES very much so. Now opinions aside here, the "Legal" word from my immigration attorney who has worked several cases through Morocco is in today. She says that a ceremony of dress and dates and milk and friends and family is considered an "engagement" in the moroccan culture (is also quite common with marriage taking place several months or a year later even) and until legal and if islamic, religious avenues are pursued, we are in no way considered by anyone married. Well you've cited Shonnie's post here, but you seem to be answering issues I raised in my post as well. Nowhere did I accuse YOU of having an Islamic marriage and then being deceitful about it in order to get a fiance visa. Nowhere did I accuse YOU of having a religious ceremony in order to have sex. In fact if you will read my post again, I pointed out that you made it CLEAR that you did NOT have such a marriage. So if it's my comments that have gotten you into such a huff and made you so defensive, I don't know why. However there ARE many who have done the "we're married before God, but we're not officially married" thing, and even given the details here on VJ. I think what set Shon off is the title of your post, referring to "Engagement/Wedding Ceremony" photos, and perhaps the comment about the grandmother "wanting to see her son married." It's things like these that get the situation all confused. What most of us are saying here is that an elaborate 2-day ceremony complete with henna, 7 dresses, hair and makeup artists, hundreds of guests (I estimate hundreds because you mention a hundred chickens slaughtered for the feast,) a live band, a video photographer, even in your own words "everything done like a wedding" -- well all this may obviously look like a real wedding to the average Joe, and certainly to the Con Off. I know you're proud of your wonderful party and you should be, but the pics could easily be misinterpreted and that's why we're saying DON'T SHOW THEM as "evidence" of your fiance relationship. Try to focus on the useful advice and information given in this thread and all over this site. It'll help you keep your sanity through this crazy process. Wishing you all the best of luck.... -MK I didn't take offense at your previous post, that's why I didn't reply directly to you. I did note that you specifically tried not to implicate me in those motives and appreciate that. Yes, I have heard others here too say they did the ceremony to feel better about having sex or to feel more comfortable with their religious choices. Not that I am making any judgement on those who choose to do this or those reasons as that is surely their choice, and personally what matters in the end, is how they feel about their choice and if it was the right one for them. I just wanted to be sure, my motives were clearly understood by those reading this as they can often be easily confused. My sole reason in agreeing to that whole ceremony, was a sweet little old lady who was paying for it all. (very unselfish reasons as it wasn't what i wanted) Honestly, I was pretty terrified and overwhelmed by the whole thing, and even in planning our wedding here (as much as I can at this point) i'm thinking "Simple", family, close friends, 30 - 40 guests tops, outdoors, earthy... lol When planning my first trip to morocco, yea i knew I loved my sweetie and wanted to be with him, but to plan on "marrying" him the first time I actually met him in person, feels a little off to me. Secondly, I only had 2 weeks to stay and have heard it takes a month to legally marry. I really just wanted that time together to be sure of us and that we were right for each other for life. I can see where the title may have been confusing to some, but the whole ordeal was confusing to me. I went into that ceremony clueless and didn't find VJ or others who had encountered this until after the fact. As for what set me off, It was being lit into by another at a place where you would think judgement of anothers relationship or character would be a little less high. Perhaps the title and even a sentence or two of my origional post echoed my own confusion over the situation, but to be called a fraud a cheat and selfish was out of line. I think anyone who truly followed my posts and words could easily have distinguished my confusion in a word or two from fact as most did. My pet peeve in life is anyone who thinks or tries to impose their own sense of right or wrong on anyone else. If I had a friend who I watched making a choice that I never would have made or felt was right for me, I would still support them knowing that just because that choice wouldn't have been right for me, it might be for them. I do appreciate the time reading and understanding my posts that you and others have taken and the helpful and honest advice. I do understand where others are coming from in saying that the elaborateness of the ceremony could cause more problems than good if interpreted by the wrong person or even the right person on the wrong day. At first, I had fully planned on sending everything, but after finding VJ a couple of months ago and reading experiences of others, it caused me to question that decision, hence this post. I am considering carefully all the replys here in making my decision. Sanity is hard to come by these days for sure...lol But thank you and best of luck to you and all in this crazy situation. soul_encounter, We did a small engagement party with just family, we dressed up in Moroccan clothes, had a celebratory meal, and did the milk and dates. We included all of these photos, and the CO was actually particularly interested in a picture of me with his mother, with both of us dressed up. I think yours might be more complicated/confusing because it's going to be so big. I certainly don't agree that you're somehow "cheating" by having an ENGAGEMENT party/ceremony and then applying for K-1. That doesn't make you are married and nobody should think you are. We ran into absolutely no problems, and I thought it strengthened our application as we showed that his family was included and supported us. That being said, there have been one or two instances recently where officers have thought a couple was actually married when they weren't and there have been some problems as a result. So you might want to tread carefully here. I think the fact that it's going to be a very big party might make it look more like a wedding and more "suspicious." Anyway, the moral of the story is, plenty of us have had engagement parties and have had no problem, but there have been a few instances where some doubt was created (though they are not from Morocco) by having a wedding-like ceremony. I think you have to decide for yourself what to do. You might want to just include a few photos of you in the outfit, with the family, etc., and not show any of the big party. Good luck with whatever you decide. I know it's confusing. Thank you for your reply kerewin, it is great to hear from all sides of this experience. I really don't know if I am going to include a few simple shots or not at all at this point. But I am sure of this, although it is not what I wanted, terrified me completely, when I look at those photos and the video, and see my grandmom smiling, dancing and chanting along with the rest of his family and friends, I'll never regret it. Even if by some unforseen force it causes us a few extra months of delay, how could I be sorry I let him and his family celebrate that time together? It makes me sad to know that they will not be a part of the actual wedding here, but at the same time, I feel wonderfully loved and supported that they did all that they did for me then. I'm totally lost abot this idea of an "Islamic" marriage for sex. In Islam, you're not married until you have a means of enforcing the conditions in your nikah, and in Morocco, you are not married, religiously nor legally, until the court deems you eligible, your nikah is signed with the adoul and registered in court. Until then, there is no enforcement for the responsibilities in the nikah, no protection of rights incurred, both required in Islam to do justice. Besides, elaborate parties may be fun, but they are disliked in Islamic law as being wasteful and ostentatious; it's recommended that the kind of money spent to produce such an event be best spent on the poor in zakat, so they're not even sanctioned by Islam. If you do the fake "marriage" for sex (and I'm not saying that's what happened here), then you can't answer honestly that you are a virgin before marriage, which seems to be a concern for some COs, I understand, and you're not really married. You're not halal religiously and you've kinda backed yourself into a corner legally. If you want to be married, just do what's required to get married. All that prep time and money for the engagement party could have yielded a valid nikah, then nooky and a K3 would have been in order. Grandma would have had her dream wedding too. Me, I wouldn't show those pics. I'm confused just hearing about them! Thanks for the reply, I don't understand the islamic law on it all for sure, and neither does my fiance being he doesn't practice, go to mosque, or read the Koran. We weren't planning on being legally married or doing any vows until he comes here, so learning of and understanding the legalities there weren't a big concern at the time. And the money, wasn't mine or his to say what to do with. Thankfully here in the States, we don't have to answer that "virgin" question...lol How long a period of celibacy does it take before one becomes a born again virgin anyhow? j/k But it has been months now...	soul_encounter	Not Telling	Morocco	2006-06-28 07:19:00