biggish data

feelings about revenge and deportation when things dont work out

Who needs a letter anyway? It's pointless. No divorcved alien requires a "letter" as in "permission" from an ex-spouse. All the alien needs from the ex-spouse is access to documentation that shows the marriage was real.

If you wish your husband no hurdles in the rest of his immigration path...then place none, give him all the evidence he needs to show USCIS that yours was a bonafide marriage and let him be.

You've said countless times, you believe that he had the right intentions in the beginning. Then you should not breathe another word about "reporting him", "fraud", "Using you". It simply was a marriage that was not meant to be. And of course, if you trully believe what you are saying, then whether he finishes the path alone or with another woman, wish him well.

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Dec 14 2008, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kat, I do see some improvement, but there are still things that you aren't seeing clearly. Letting go is healthy, yes. But you are going a step further. You are planning on assisting him. Why? To prove to him that you loved him? Again, why? That is not letting go, that is trying to show him that he made a mistake. If you are truly ready to let go you would not care one way or the other what he thinks. Besides Kat, he will never see things the way you want him too. You need to get that out of your head right now.

Let go Kat, but don't help him. He is a big boy, and you don't owe anything to him. Don't wait for him to make it right by you either because he won't. By not writing a letter to assist him isn't revenge, it is the final step to letting go with a peaceful heart.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-12-14 19:50:00

feelings about revenge and deportation when things dont work out

In the clear case of immigration marriage-fraud (unilateral) reporting the matter to USCIS is not exacting revenge. It's one duty.

That being said, when an injured spouse is so rattled by the end of a marriage that they are either not willing, or unable to see that other factors were at hand and that the relationship ran its course, and are inclined to report an alien for marriage-fraud when there is practically no indicia of fraud other then those made up in their minds, are behaving in a vengeful fashion, and will likely learn very quickly that their efforts were wasted.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-12-12 17:00:00

green card marriages, ladies beware

From the general tenor of your posts today, I take it that nothing has changed for the better for you in the last two weeks?

QUOTE (Hanging in there @ Jan 3 2009, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (just_Jackie @ Jan 3 2009, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

10 year greencard holder... in 5 years and can file on their own...no original spouse needed.

Well Jackie, I think Europeans have a better deal than the US right now. If I married a French person, I d get free nationalised health insurance, a free place to live and a free monthly check no matter what. If you compare the lives of lets say Moroccans who married a French person versus an American and left their spouse eventually, the French deal is much better. A greencard does you no good if you dont want to hold a job and work and make it here. France is a better deal for many people because if you get sick there, you have free insurance and its not that far from mena.

I just sit down and put myself in peoples shoes from overseas and realistically, the US is really for people with dreams of starting their own businesses etc. Its paradise for someone who has a good worth ethic and isnt lazy. Its horrible for someone who just sat around drinking coffee and barely working . Life in the US is NO BED OF ROSES and very hard to adjust to. I just think alot of people overseas hear these tales of guys who went back home and said this place was gravy and threw money around....and they think it will be that way for them.

I stand by my belief that shopping for a wife on the internet is common place and unfortunately, like us.... they dont know what they are getting either ( work wise, stress wise, society wise) I think it takes alot of patience to ride through all the adjustments

diadromous mermaid

Female

2009-01-03 21:40:00

green card marriages, ladies beware

But all of these extraordinary requests from the US petitioner are indeed signs that could indicate intent. Most people don't ask for a loved one to go into deep debt just to make them "happy".

QUOTE (Hanging in there @ Jan 3 2009, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (LaL @ Jan 3 2009, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Jillai @ Jan 3 2009, 07:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Ihavequestions @ Jan 3 2009, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Heartland @ Jan 2 2009, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am filing for bankruptcy, I am losing my house, I almost lost my children... God think twice!!!!!

I'm sorry to hear this happened to you, I truly am. But I have to wonder how he got so involved in your finances to drag you that far down.

Its easy to let someone get so involved in ur finances, especially when u think they "LOVE" u, dont ya think ?

Many people use co-mingling of finances to use during AOS, etc. This isn't such a shocker. Especially if one is already cash-strapped add on immigration fees, plane tickets and support while not working.

Its easier than you think...lawyer fees,greencard costs, plane tickets...hotels name it. Then when they get here..maybe things arent working out and the sponsor has an emotional crisis and cannot work like before. This woman may very well have paid for everyones plane tickets....etc.. and then when he got here...who knows how he treated her?

I just feel so sorry for her because I know how easy it is for this to happen, I had no debt when I met him and now I am over 15000 in debt not to mention what emotionally happened to me and I am still not done with the hell.. Its very very very easy for this stuff to happen,...especially if she didnt have a support system. Her kids could have been upset with the relationship. Thats why she almost lost them. The house part could have been her trying to help him start a business or something. She hasnt elaborated and she needs to for people to understand. Marriage alone doesnt pummel you.. its all the dumb stuff you do while married...like open joint accounts, finance trips back home and for family back home that you can t afford etc...I knew one woman who took a second on her house to buy her husband a business and almost lost her home. This is NOT that uncommon. This DOES happen. And other things like buying a house for family back home or an apartment back home etc...to make the spouse happy etc. Its easy to get in a lot of trouble in a heady romance...

You ever hear the term I LOVED HER SO MUCH SHE MADE ME WRITE BAD CHECKS..........hahahahha

diadromous mermaid

Female

2009-01-03 21:37:00

advice and help

Why even mention VAWA? VAWA doesn't apply here at all. Your husband has permanent residency already, and he can apply to remove the conditions on his residency alone after divorce. Your attempt to perpetuate this marriage, albeit alone, has complicated YOUR case, not his. If you truly have no malice for him, then provide him with the necessary documentation to support the bonafide nature of the marriage so that he can remove conditions from his residency and have done with him. Proceed with the divorce, if he doesn't file, then you file and right now. Once the divorce is over (forget the abandonment grounds, you don't need them) as it is clear that you have a marriage that is irretrivably broken and that would suffice with any court, then and only then can YOU start the healing process. Hanging on to hope (and in my opinion that is what you have been doing) with this man is your greatet impediment to emotional health for yourself and your children (and please, please oblige my request, and cease referring to them as your "surviving kids".... it's distatesful and disrespectful to them).

QUOTE (Hanging in there @ May 26 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Aymsgirl @ May 26 2009, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just want to add that I feel for anybody going through this kind of ordeal. Kat, what one of us does may not work for another. I have no advice but I would tell you that I don't think I could go on like you do everyday with him in your home and you being his cash supplier. Best wishes Kat and I hope that you and your children find some happiness.

I contacted an online divorce attorney and I told him he is going to have to call his mom to pay for it. The total cost for the divorce is 709 including court costs. I do not have to attend the hearing. The attorney can hold it in another county since its online ( its 299 for his service with no appearance)

The court filing fees are 409. I am without a shadow of a doubt sure he is meeting up with another woman online (I think she is arabic) He shows absolutely no feelings for me whatsover and just walks by me and I am quietly crying. He said he will apply to adjust his status on his own and does not need me. His mother is in on it too. I was scammed. The only reason he got pissed is he got me pregnant... I have no doubt that this was a scam from day one. I am shattered but the reality is I have to save my house and any potential inheritance and assets and my mom was to the point she was going to cut me out of the will due to him because she was so afraid he would take me on a ride.

He will call his mom tomorrow and his mom will pay for the divorce. My mom said absolutely she will not pay one dime towards anything for him anymore. I am so shattered...losing my son. Wanna a big laugh? Today is one year from the day he arrived. I usually ask myself what did the girl do for the guy to do this and that. The reality here is I have the receipts to prove I paid big for this , bankrolled his status and got screwed.

Believe it or not, I will write a very nice letter to immigration with supporting statements from my friends and family and my son even saying that we all did the best we could to help him and that he did not work the entire time he was here and to please understand that although I bear no malice, I do not feel he married me with good intentions. I will be very kind to him but as lifts conditions or applies for citizenship, maybe it will take an extra month or two. I was nothing but a boat

diadromous mermaid

Female

2009-06-07 15:34:00

Who signs DS-3032 for 1-year old beneficiary?

QUOTE (TVN @ Jul 21 2008, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who signs the DS-3032 (choice of address and agent) for 1-year old beneficiary?
I got the DS-3032 for my son in which it's required him to sign. He is only 1 year old.
He's too young to sign it. By common sense, should I (the petitioner) sign for him?
Can his mother (another beneficiary) sign for him?
I don't want to make a mistake. I need your advice. Thanks

Parent can sign for a child under age 14, sometimes even under 16. If unsure you can always sign for the child as follows:
parent may sign for the child by writing the child's name on the signature line and signing the parent's name above the child's name. Example:

PRINT Jane Doe for Child M. Doe, then Jane Doe's signature

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-07-22 20:44:00

I-864 Household size problem

QUOTE (crazysamurai @ Aug 24 2008, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is for all of us sponsoring our spouses. I tried to calculate the household size on I-864 and it comes out to 3 instead of 2.
I am sponsoring only my spouse. So

Question 21 - PART FIVE

a. Enter the number you entered on Line 10
the number of immigrant I am sponsoring = 1

b. Youself = 1

c. If you are currently married, enter "1" for your spouse
=1

d. 0
e. 0
f. 0
g. 0

total = 3

How did you guys handle this? Did you put "0" for part c (for spouse)? It seems that if you do that, they you are 'invalidating' your own marriage....You can't put "0" for Line 10...

I am stuck...any help would be appereciated....

thanks,

CS

The I-864 form is used by various applicants, not just for a sponsor of his or her own spouse. Therefore, USCIS has included instructions when the intending immigrant is also your spouse to not count any individual twice, when calculating the household size.

Edited by diadromous mermaid, 24 August 2008 - 08:47 PM.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-08-24 20:47:00

CR-1 with overstay problem

QUOTE (Billy&Fabiana @ Oct 25 2008, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks for responding. She returned to Brazil before her overstay was discovered.

Then you will need to overcome the bar by filing a waiver.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-10-25 21:10:00

CR-1 with overstay problem

QUOTE (Billy&Fabiana @ Oct 25 2008, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife overstayed her 6 month USA tourist visa by 5 years (arrived in 2001). She voluntarily returned to Brazil, its been 2 years now. We married in Oct 2008 in Brazil. I live in USA and am US citizen.

Well, simply put, she incurred a 10 year bar to admission. When you say she voluntarily returned. Was this at the request of DHS, or did she simply go home before her overstay was discovered?

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-10-25 20:16:00

CR-1 with overstay problem

In your post, are you suggesting that the Brazilian spouse is still in the USA?

QUOTE (Billy&Fabiana @ Oct 25 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wondering if anyone with Brazilian spouse is filing CR-1 with an "overstay problem" in USA to share experience.
We feel a bit lost and after reading these forums we are concerned about the lengthly process.
Thank you in advance for sharing any similar situations.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-10-25 19:17:00

B1 Canceled at airport but allowed to enter?

Tourist visa extensions are not guaranteed. In fact, the entension form itself indicates that. You say she applied before the expiry date on her I-94. How long before the expiry date did she apply? I think the POE agent may have been mistaken when he said she was out of status from the date she last arrived. I believe she was declared out of status as of the expiry date of her original I-94. How long she overstayed depends upon how long past that date she remained in the USA awaiting the outcome of the extension she filed, which was later denied.

QUOTE (toddflora @ Dec 7 2008, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife and daughter have been here in Chicago for three years, having successfully been married, had a baby boy and obtained residence

Three days ago her mother was traveling on her way to Chicago on a B1/B2 when she was stopped and held in Miami for "violating" the time permitted on her last stay. We were shocked when the officer in Miami called us and stated that she had over stayed her last visit and was now subject to being deported for violations.
We explained that this was an error, as forms were filed for an extension prior to her departure date on her last visit and USCIS was behind on processing times. When we called USCIS to ask if she would need to leave before her permitted time, they stated that she would need to wait for the decision; giving every impression that becuase we filed the request before she was suppose to leave, she was not required to leave, was not violating her Visa and she just needed to be patient and wait for the decisoin. Her extension request was later denied and she returned as instructed according to the letter. According to USCIS, everything was fine.
The Officer replied that she was in BIG TROUBLE!!!Stating that if denied they use the date she entered and she had illegally over stayed. They ended up holding her for 9 hours! Taking finger prints, asking many questions (and coercing), took pictures, made her sign papers in english, canceled her Visa but then allowed her to enter for thirty days (not the hopeful six months). Perhaps they have nothing better to do than interogate grandmothers?

We are now looking for an attorney to help us, as we feel that USCIS misrepresented the rules and consequnces. Has anyone had this kind of experience? We looked at the forms, website and asked if she needed to leave while a decision was being made about the extension and no where or no one warned that this would cause such problems. Anything you can share would be helpful, as we will be needing to make decisions soon as to
what her options are. Thanks! Todd & Flora, the little Thomas' and Grandma Cheche

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-12-07 16:32:00

Just married an american and want to move my children and I (canadians) need help on direction

If you're already married the fiancé form would not apply. K-3 or CR-1 are your options if you intend to do processing in Canada. If you came to the US and married without prior plans to do so when you entered, there is a possibility of adjusting status from within the USA. Caveat: Potential and success depends on a number of criteria.

QUOTE (becks @ Dec 7 2008, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am totally new to all of this. I just married an american (we got marriend in the USA) and checking out the usgov site to see what are the steps in order for us to move to the US to be together. I am a bit confused at to what are the right steps. I don't think I need an immigration lawyer in order to do the necessary paperwork. Can anyone help me please? I assume we have to fill out the immigrant visa forms, fiancé form and/or alien form? That american site is confusing for me and so so much information that i am honestly trying not to be overwhelmed. Also what is the timeline on this? I am a government employee and also trying to get a job offer from the government down in the States..can someone pls give me (us) some advice.

Thanks!

Becks

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-12-07 16:53:00

Some people just cannot be helped.

Endless posts about how things aren't fair or how they "should" be handled aren't addressing the realities of the situation.

Continue on ... stick by what you "want" to be the case. Don't go to any extra trouble because you think it shouldn't be necessary. Feel better because so many are in the same boat. At least you will have the comforting feeling of righteousness in your defeat.

I don't know where you're getting this from. Yes, there has been a lot of complaining around here, and rightfully so - some people have been waiting a very long time here to be with their loved one. But there has also been a lot of effort in trying to figure out how to achieve successful resolutions in some of the trickier cases. I think everyone around here HAS gone through extra trouble because we know it IS necessary, even if we believe that it SHOULDN'T be.

Please don't step into one thread and spout sarcastic remarks when you haven't been around through it all. You obviously haven't seen all of the constructive advice given around here as much if not more than the comiseration.

And maybe, it's not that some people can't be helped, it's just that they can't be helped by you and others with similar comments. What solutions have any of the non ME/NA posters propsed here? Instead it's been a whole lot of, "Well, that's the way it is. Why don't you try to find a solution instead of complaining? The CO has a right to deny you if she thinks you smell funny." Which I sort of take as a euphemism for, "I agree with the COs, you all are a bunch of shams, and you deserve what you get for playing with your boytoys."

Sure, we can all turn off our "emotion switch", ummmm...and then what??? What is everyone REALLY trying to say here?

I have been following this thread...every post...and I've seen much advice given that was picked apart and disregarded ... perhaps because the advice was not what some wanted to hear... at least is appeared that way. What I have seen is a whole lot of debate about wheter this or that should be allowed by the CO... if it's right for them to make the judgements they do.

The advice given is good yes, but it doesn't always work. That is the reason for the complaints here. We have people offering basic advice but they don't necessarily know whether or not this person actually already did what they say will work. Emotions are high here because we are being told that we screwed up, when we know that isn't the case.

Obviously this thread is going nowhere.

Chi, I wish I had some advice that would help her in the future efforts rather than the misguided advice you have received here. Please tell your friend that our prayers are with her and her husband.

I learned something new about our case today. The consulate actually told our representative that they screwed up our case by not looking at our evidence, and they wish they could take it back, but they can't at this point. Now this is something I never expected from them!

I'd like to clarify something in the fairness of all that have spent time participating in this thread, and admittedly, I have not re-read each of the 11 pages, but I think to the best of my recollection that the majority of the posts in this thread have not been offering advice that a member in the ME/NA should follow, but rather it's been a case reiterating the protocols defined in the DOS and USCIS regulations and of offering possible explanations for why things might have occurred the way they have. There is a distinction, and I know that most VJ members refrain from directing others to do what they are not qualified to do.

And I hesitate to agree that any of that which has been offered is "misguided". That's a stretch, don't you think? Or if you don't and matters are entirely different in this region of the world, then would it be fair to state that what works here, doesn't work elsewhere? In that regard, wouldn't it also be prudent to bear that in mind when participating in threads that pertain to other areas of the world? I don't think one can adopt one point of view, in one instance, and then disregard it in another.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-23 06:35:00

You say that USCIS "found him to be eligible 2 times". Meaning, USCIS confirmed that there is a US citizen who has a legal "immediate relative" realtionship with him. That's it, period. That is all a petition establishes.

He must then qualify for the visa in his own right.

And after he has it, he must qualify for entry to the US in his own right, at the discretion of the CBP.

WELL, IF THAT IS THE "LEGALEZ" THAT IS USED THEN YES YOU ARE RIGHT.

THE US CITIZEN ESTABLISHED SHE HAS A 'VALID MARRIAGE' BY SENDING IN THE PROOF (THAT WAS PRESENT AT THE INTERVIEW BUT THE CO REFUSED TO LOOK AT) AND THEN SOME MORE.

ONE USCIS REAFFIMS THE CASE THEY THEN SENDS A NOA TO THE PETITIONER THAT THEY HAVE SENT NOTICE REQUESTING DOS TO TAKE ACTION ON THE CASE.

QUALIFY? YOU MEAN MORE HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH?

Oh brother! Chiquita, you wanted to have the law cited, and here you are questioning it. USCIS handles the petitioner's request for a visa to be issued to his/her immediate relative beneficiary. USCIS reviews the request and if evidence demonstrates that the beneficiary indeed has an immediate relative relationship with the petitioner, the petition is approved. Period.

Next stage is DOS, a completely different process involving different eligibility requirements, but related and dependent upon an approved petition by USCIS. They have their own set of criterion to meet. The "Immediate relative" beneficiary (already established that the legal union exists, but what is not decided is *why* and for *what purpose* it was entered into). DOS then takes it from there.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-22 12:43:00

[quote name='chiquita' post='265726' date='Jun 21 2006, 05:40 PM']EXCUSE ME BUT THE POINT IS....THE LAW! Not their opinions or suspicions.[/quote]

This I addressed below:
[quote name='diadromous mermaid' post='265840' date='Jun 21 2006, 06:11 PM']Opinions as to whether the applicant meets the requirement as established by law and regulation, of which the ConOff is and should be aware.[/quote]

[quote name='chiquita' post='267225' date='Jun 22 2006, 11:11 AM']OH ABSOLUTELY!!! How I wish this was true!!!![/quote]
Well if you feel that is the case, do something about it then. There are all sorts of avenues to bring the agency to task.

[quote name='diadromous mermaid' post='265840' date='Jun 21 2006, 06:11 PM']Now, in the case of an alien at an interview, there are many factors involved: demeanour and comportment, answers to enquiries, evidence etc. All come into play. If a ConOff does not ask for evidence, it could be that something in the other factors triggered an impression, that he/she believes could not be overcome.[/quote]
[quote name='chiquita' post='267225' date='Jun 22 2006, 11:11 AM']I SO DISAGREE!!! demeanour and comportment????????????? factors triggered an impression, that he/she believes could not be overcome?????????????????[/quote]
Yes, believe it or not people DO telegraph the unspoken. I'm not simply speaking of nervousness, I'm speaking of aversion, disingenuous intentions etc. No one comes out and declares he/she is averting law. It can be communicated subtley. However, one fact that you simply don't seem to understand is that the onus is upon the applicant to demonstrate eligibility.
[quote]OMG...GUILTY!!!! The law is very clear...the CO must have concrete evidence. Most Americans are nervous when in front of a goverment official, how much more is an immigrant??? We are talking LEGAL immigrants with all the paperwork right there in front of the CO. IMMPRESSION?? How on earth does that by pass the law??[/quote]
Please post your veritable sources for this statement.

[quote name='diadromous mermaid' post='265840' date='Jun 21 2006, 06:11 PM']1) Either the applicant demonstrated genuine eligibility in all areas being reviewed as above, and the ConOff made a mistake and the applicant is eligible for the visa[/quote]
[quote]]

MOST LIKELY[/quote]
So you were there and had reviewed all of the information, were you?
[quote name='diadromous mermaid' post='265840' date='Jun 21 2006, 06:11 PM']2) Or the ConOff picked up on something which lead him/her to believe that the applicant is not[/quote]
[quote]PICKED UP??? USCIS found him to be eligible 2 times now!!! They will be married 3 years next month.[/quote]
Perhaps there is something that you aren't aware of, just perhaps?

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-22 11:49:00

There certainly a warning on this website about the way information is presented here so it was a pertinent question.

What warning would that be? I'm curious

Oh come on! No one is trying to change your mind, if you wish to maintain your opinion, then be my guest, but to claim that others have an attitidue is preposterous. I see only one obstinate and antagonistic view here.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-22 07:35:00

Untrue, denials must be from concrete evidence, not suspision or opinions!

Nope, not at all. However, they need to follow the law, not their thier opinions. This is the problem.

You missed the point. Opinions as to whether the applicant meets the requirement as established by law and regulation, of which the ConOff is and should be aware. Now, in the case of an alien at an interview, there are many factors involved: demeanour and comportment, answers to enquiries, evidence etc. All come into play. If a ConOff does not ask for evidence, it could be that something in the other factors triggered an impression, that he/she believes could not be overcome. However, not being there, and not being the ConOff all of this is simply idle speculation. If the ConOff in Chiquita's opening post stated that he/she did not believe the relationship is real, then one has to conclude one of two points:
1) Either the applicant demonstrated genuine eligibility in all areas being reviewed as above, and the ConOff made a mistake and the applicant is eligible for the visa
2) Or the ConOff picked up on something which lead him/her to believe that the applicant is not

It would be wrong for us to determine which of the two was the case. It could be either.

Are you an immigration lawyer? Or have you studied immigration law?

I've read alot about this and everyone's interpretation comes down to a consular officer cannot base a decision on speculation or opinion, they have to have substantial proof.

The ConOffs are familiar with and utilise the regulations according to the law. In their capacity they are afforded some discretionary authority, NOT to change the regulations but to make certain that applicants meet them, as in, demonstrating that one is "eligible". If the ConOff has any question as to an applican't eligibility he/she can either refer them or deny. It's as simple as that really.

I don't see the need to answer your question of whether I've studied immigration law. I've not asked that of you, nor has anyone else, nor would I question your own preparation, so I find it somewhat impertinent of you.

It was quite a pertinant question, and honest enough. You seem to have a thing about advising me on the worthiness of my posts. I find that impertinent.

It would seem to me that you draw unnecessary and inaccurate conclusions from my posts and I can only surmise that must pertain to other conclusions you arrive at, or it might be a case of the material you are reading. You missed the nuance in my statement, that is certain.

I don't believe that I have alluded to or advised on the worthiness of your posts, at all. I find it impertinent to state that you have read something and therefore must be an authority and unless someone else is either an immigration attorney or has studied immigration law they are less than qualified to comment on your findings and conclusions. Frankly, in my opinion, they leave a lot to be desired. But, as you were.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-21 23:13:00

Untrue, denials must be from concrete evidence, not suspision or opinions!

Nope, not at all. However, they need to follow the law, not their thier opinions. This is the problem.

You missed the point. Opinions as to whether the applicant meets the requirement as established by law and regulation, of which the ConOff is and should be aware. Now, in the case of an alien at an interview, there are many factors involved: demeanour and comportment, answers to enquiries, evidence etc. All come into play. If a ConOff does not ask for evidence, it could be that something in the other factors triggered an impression, that he/she believes could not be overcome. However, not being there, and not being the ConOff all of this is simply idle speculation. If the ConOff in Chiquita's opening post stated that he/she did not believe the relationship is real, then one has to conclude one of two points:
1) Either the applicant demonstrated genuine eligibility in all areas being reviewed as above, and the ConOff made a mistake and the applicant is eligible for the visa
2) Or the ConOff picked up on something which lead him/her to believe that the applicant is not

It would be wrong for us to determine which of the two was the case. It could be either.

Are you an immigration lawyer? Or have you studied immigration law?

I've read alot about this and everyone's interpretation comes down to a consular officer cannot base a decision on speculation or opinion, they have to have substantial proof.

The ConOffs are familiar with and utilise the regulations according to the law. In their capacity they are afforded some discretionary authority, NOT to change the regulations but to make certain that applicants meet them, as in, demonstrating that one is "eligible". If the ConOff has any question as to an applican't eligibility he/she can either refer them or deny. It's as simple as that really.

I don't see the need to answer your question of whether I've studied immigration law. I've not asked that of you, nor has anyone else, nor would I question your own preparation, so I find it somewhat impertinent of you. :yes:

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-21 21:41:00

Untrue, denials must be from concrete evidence, not suspision or opinions!

Nope, not at all. However, they need to follow the law, not their thier opinions. This is the problem.

You missed the point. Opinions as to whether the applicant meets the requirement as established by law and regulation, of which the ConOff is and should be aware. Now, in the case of an alien at an interview, there are many factors involved: demeanour and comportment, answers to enquiries, evidence etc. All come into play. If a ConOff does not ask for evidence, it could be that something in the other factors triggered an impression, that he/she believes could not be overcome. However, not being there, and not being the ConOff all of this is simply idle speculation. If the ConOff in Chiquita's opening post stated that he/she did not believe the relationship is real, then one has to conclude one of two points:
1) Either the applicant demonstrated genuine eligibility in all areas being reviewed as above, and the ConOff made a mistake and the applicant is eligible for the visa
2) Or the ConOff picked up on something which lead him/her to believe that the applicant is not

It would be wrong for us to determine which of the two was the case. It could be either.

Edited by diadromous mermaid, 21 June 2006 - 05:12 PM.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-21 17:11:00

I would sure hate to see someone denied based on her opinions.

Denials are based on opinions of the ConOff as to how well the visa applicant addresses the requirement that have been laid out by law. How else could those determinations be made? Are you suggesting that the ConOffs are not qualified to render a decision?

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-21 16:45:00

let me tell ya, you piss me off! you must be a CO to say the things you say.

nice attitude!! paula offered sound advice that, frankly, anyone on this entire board could use when prepping for their interview. it's a shame that you can't keep emotions out of this and had to reply in such a derogatory fashion.

Let me tell ya ####### is wrong...she has no idea of what happens to a couple who are denied a visa.

I agree being PREPARED is the most important thing one can do. Since she has no experience with denials how on earth can she give advice? In her opinion...that is exactly it...hers.

Some of her advice is WRONG! (more on that later...)

I can't keep my emotions out of this because I want my husband here and there is NOT ONE REASON for him not to be here!!!!!!!!!!

So, like I said, she pisses me off and she sounds like a CO...(oooooo don't piss them off or you'll get denied!!!) That is a bunch of #######.

Paula is giving advice on other groups as well when she shouldn't. Not everthing works for everyone. That's so narrow minded. There are many many issues to consider.

I think that for one to dismiss advice, which appears on its face to be very wise counsel, is unreasonable. One should look at applying for a visa as one looks for applying for a job. There will be many factors involved in the consideration. I can't think of a greqt example at the moment, but with high fraud consulates, the bar has been raised. It just means that you are required to exceed their anticipations. As an example, if you knew that you lacked some experience that a job calls for, wouldn't you be prepared to address that proactively in an interview; wouldn't you try to stress something else that you bring to the table? To enter a job interview knowing that you are perhaps not presenting the same skills as someone else and then to be surprised at the outcome when you are not accepted, yet you do not do anything to level the playing field, is just not reasonable, in my opinion.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-21 16:21:00

Let's examine one other thing... what relationship does not have it's ulterior motives? Do you not want to be alone anymore? Do you want a good mother or father for your children? Do you consider potential for your own personal advancement via the support of your spouse? Do you marry because this person offers financial stability? Do you marry because this person just looks good with you? The list is endless and can appear quite shallow, but for any person to say that they have NO ulterior motives whatsoever entering into a relationships and/or a marriage is incorrect. It is human nature and perfectly normal to do so. Do ANY of these ulterior motives cancel out the possibility of love existing as well? Nope. People fall in love too. It happens every day. Go figure.

I don't really see the point of articulating the above statement. As NONE of the reasons listed above would be grounds to find a marriage fraudulent in the eyes of USCIS. No one said that "love" has to be involved. The only thing stipulated is that "immigration benefit" cannot be the sole motivator.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-21 16:12:00

Make sure your fiancee/husband is very careful about being pushy to show your evidence. There are differences in what you can get away with, with demanding the CO's to look at your evidence. The worst of the CO in Morocco will probably find ways to deny you if you piss her off. But instead use tricks to get your evidence out there. 1) Make sure you have folders and make sure they are clearly marked what evidence you have in them. 2) When the CO asks a question, then make sure your fiancee/husband digs out the evidence that goes along with it. For example if they are asked how do you communicate. He or she should say we communicate by phone, online and by snail mail. At the very same time he should be grabbing the phone bills, the copies of the e-mails and instant message print outs. That question from the CO asks for evidence and is your chance so they will not take offense later when in their mind it's not the time to show since they didn't ask for it. In short you have to know how to play the game to interview these CO's based on their personalities and what you can get away with. So practice and prepare what you will do for questions you know you will get then it's a habit and you will do fine.

Going to be with your fiancee/husband during their interview is good advice but I do not feel it is 100% necessary since some Consulates do not let you go in with them. Plus you probably have limited vacation time and money to make the trip at the last minute and the CO's realize this. If you have all the other proof and how you present it most likely will be enough. But if you can afford the time off and the money and feel better go to the interview, it sure can't hurt either. But do not skip all the other more important prep work to make your interview successful. Do not come out of the interview regretting you took the short cut and didn't practice and prepare, you will only have yourself to blame if you fail. Do not only blame CO for your case being denied if you didn't do your work. I am not saying the CO is always right, but it's not their fault to see through your dumb mistakes and approve you anyway just because you are nicer than the last couple that failed their interview just like you did. I know some people will get offended because they were denied, but I ask them to be honest with their cases and take their own blame if they messed up.

I only offer my advice because all the work I did paid off with a visa from Morocco and it has helped other couples get their visas from Morocco also. In fact every couple I and my husband helped has gotten their visa. And I hope my advice helps others.

Paula

let me tell ya, you piss me off! you must be a CO to say the things you say.

Odd, indeed. I don't find anything remotely annoying in Paula's post.

Edited by diadromous mermaid, 21 June 2006 - 02:34 PM.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-06-21 14:34:00

ADMIN PROCESSING!!! (((( good news )))

Now THIS calls for a whopping, big DAYUM ! :lol:

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-07-07 16:47:00

The Saga Continues.....

Asalaamu Aleykum,

For those of you that are familiar with my case and what happened to my fiance at the POE in Atlanta, I would like to give you an update on where we are now in the process.

I contacted an attorney and found out that for Immigration purposes you must be legally marry in order to file for a Spousal visa....Furthermore, in order to get married both parties must be present at the ceremony and the marriage must be consumated. Therefore, you can NOT have a proxy marriage.

In our case, my fiance called the Imam over the telephone and agreed to marry me, which is part of his custom and our religious practice.

OK, I filed a waiver to remove the 5-year exclusion and contacted our Senator. In turn, the Representative from the Senator's office thought the entire case was a bowl of do-do, however she sent an email to the Embassy. The Embassy replied that they wanted to see my fiance for an interview on what happened at the POE. My fiance went to his interview yesterday. My fiance said he was iinterrogated by the CO and a rep from DHS. He was under the impression that the interview would be about is exclusion from the POE. However they asked him questions like:

How old is your sister, when is her birthday? What jobs did you have in your country? Why did your fiance decide to convert to Islam!! WHAT THE HECK!!!! Does your fiance go to the MOSQUE!!!! When your fiance visit you here in Germany, did she attend the mosque????

He said that he became a bit perturbed by the questions and asked them...Why are you not asking me questions about my entry denial?

Their response was....WE ALREADY KNOW YOU ARE NOT MARRIED, WE ARE HIGH INVESTIGATORS AND WE KNOW EVERYTHING !!!!
My fiance response was...So you excluded me for what reasons????? They did not answer him. He said after talking with them for three hours they told him goodbye and have a good day.
NO INFORMATION ON HIS VISA STATUS! NO INFORMATION ON WHAT WE SHOULD DO NEXT!!! NOTHING!!!!
He said that he felt like a mouse in a cat maze and they wasted another three hours of his time.
After being in jail overnight at the POE and being interrogated another three ours yesterday. He has come to the conclusion that he do not wish to be in a country that don't want him

goldenheart,

Why would you interpret the questions asked of your fiancé as not pertaining to the POE inicident? The way I read this, if the CO and representative from DHS referred to your loved one as a fiancé and admitted that they know you are not married, that, in my opinion, is a MAJOR concession on their part. I also believe that the line of questioning appears to indicate some interest on their behalf to understand the reasons (religious) behind the confusing statement uttered by your loved one when asked of the status of his relationship at the POE.

Put this way, if these officers were to continue to opine that your fiancé was married and carrying the wrong documnetation (K-1) as a married person on his last attempt to enter the country, then I'd tend to suspect that no progress had been made.

What does your attorney think of the status of his interview?

chiquita,

DHS is a representative of the POE. You don't expect that they'd fly the actual person from Atlanta to the Embassy for this do you?

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-07-13 08:51:00

Goldenheart Update....

Asalaamu Aleykum,

My fiance was invited for an interview a few weeks ago, he thought the interview was to clear up the miscommunication at the POE. Unfortunately, the interview turned into a 3 hour interrogation session.

He said the CO asked him Why did your fiancee decided to be a Muslim?, Why did your fiancee divorce her X husband? He said all of the questions were BS questions. Well, he left the Embassy more frustrated then ever. Well, last Friday he received another Packet 3 and the Embassy stated that for further processing he must complete another visa application.

The problem is.....He does not trust them any more. The second part of the problem is...I don't trust the system either. We follow their rules, jump through hoops and exhausted all of our money for a simple K1 visa. I feel the only option I have is to leave my 7-year old son (due to joint custody) here in the USA and move to Germany I really hate that I've been force into a situation where my son will lose his mother I'm almost positive that If I have to leave my son, I will be no good for my fiance, due to depression of not being with my child

I'm interested in knowing what your lawyer's opinion is on this new development and I interpret that as a positive sign, based on the information you've shared. My recollection of the situation is that your fiancé refused to withdraw his application (due to his misunderstanding what was going on) and was therefore subject to a ban. If now you are being asked to submit a new petition, is there a chance that the decision to impose a ban has been reversed? It's wise to get a good handle on where the case is now. Please confer with your legal counsel.

Unfortunately, I had to fire my lawyer and I lost a lot of money dealing with him.

Yes my fiance has a 5 year ban because he did not wish to withdraw his application , because if he withdraw his application it meant he did not wish to come to USA for marriage. Unfortunately, I am a bit uneasy about this new petition because the NVC is responsible for issuing visa numbers on approved petitions from the service centers. Due to the fact we are not doing a new petition through the service center, it makes me wonder how they can process his application without a new petition.

I do not think the decision to impose a ban has been reversed, unfortunately, I think they are playing with our emotions.

Sadly, with the new application our response to the questions were different. We had to answer "Yes" to the questions of if he was ever excluded and "Yes" he has a 5 year ban against him....which are all reasons to deny his application.

We have decided not to allow this process to seperate us spiratually and emotionally. We just have to start our family in an untraditional way.

I think she has a valid point. I don't remember, did they revoke the petition?

They cancelled the visa and gave him a 5 year ban from the USA, due to coming without proper documentations and not withdrawing his application.

goldenheart,

I am concerned that you are contemplating addressing this new stage of the process without legal representation. Firing an attorney is your choice, of course, and predicated on believing that he/she is not serving your best interests, but your case has complications beyond the scope of any news group, and only an attorney familiar with the issue can give you proper guidance. If you honestly believe that 'playing with your emotions' is at hand, you really need representation to determine what is fact and what is perception. Please spend some time looking for someone you can have faith in.

Edited by diadromous mermaid, 29 July 2006 - 06:39 AM.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-07-29 06:38:00

Goldenheart Update....

Asalaamu Aleykum,

My fiance was invited for an interview a few weeks ago, he thought the interview was to clear up the miscommunication at the POE. Unfortunately, the interview turned into a 3 hour interrogation session.

He said the CO asked him Why did your fiancee decided to be a Muslim?, Why did your fiancee divorce her X husband? He said all of the questions were BS questions. Well, he left the Embassy more frustrated then ever. Well, last Friday he received another Packet 3 and the Embassy stated that for further processing he must complete another visa application.

The problem is.....He does not trust them any more. The second part of the problem is...I don't trust the system either. We follow their rules, jump through hoops and exhausted all of our money for a simple K1 visa. I feel the only option I have is to leave my 7-year old son (due to joint custody) here in the USA and move to Germany I really hate that I've been force into a situation where my son will lose his mother I'm almost positive that If I have to leave my son, I will be no good for my fiance, due to depression of not being with my child

I'm interested in knowing what your lawyer's opinion is on this new development and I interpret that as a positive sign, based on the information you've shared. My recollection of the situation is that your fiancé refused to withdraw his application (due to his misunderstanding what was going on) and was therefore subject to a ban. If now you are being asked to submit a new petition, is there a chance that the decision to impose a ban has been reversed? It's wise to get a good handle on where the case is now. Please confer with your legal counsel.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-07-28 11:02:00

want to understand the american culture & daily life issues

There's a reasonable overview of daily living issues, online here:

http://educationusa....fe/everyday.htm

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-08-26 17:24:00

We were going to wait a few more years

Well, it's official.

We are the proud parents of our new goldfish. Hooray!

Congrats! Which one of you does he take after ? :lol:

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-09-26 18:08:00

private investigators

Just curious, has anyone who met their sweetie online hired a PI to check him/her out before going there? Not that I am thinking of doing this but was just curious since you just "never know" for sure, ya know?

In today's day and age, it would not be a bad idea. Anyone that would object, if they found out, would lose some marks in my book. I'd think that the biggest issue would be to find a PI that you could trust. There are those that aren't on the up-and-up in this country. I'd recommend not paying the entire fee up front, and having the balance due upon delivery of the report if you do decide to proceed. Good luck.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2006-10-06 15:19:00

IP address issue

Oh and all those IP's are from the US and not overseas. They are all Comcast DSL/Cable and not a VPN. I suppose it is theoretically possible for comcast to have randomly reassigned an IP on several occasions between two VJ accounts for two different people within a few days of each other, however it seems statistically improbable.

Reading along this thread, it appears that perhaps what might have been best would be to approach the members involved to query, in private and in PM, if they are/were also posting as others. If they failed to answer or gave information that caused you to believe they were not being forthright, then diable the account. But to disable it first and investigate later...or place a member in a position to have to make efforts to reinstate themselves is just plain wrong. We've seen this happen about a month ago, and while my presence on here is of little importance, I can say that the way that was handled and the way that assertions that were made were never followed up on, is what has caused me to check this site less and less as days go by.

I am one of a group of long-time VJ members that all felt similarly. Many left at once. I remained here until now solely because of the individuals that post questions on here and in the forum in which I participate. I wanted to leave this board a month ago, but felt I couldn't because those folks would not be permitted to find me on another board where this sort of drama doesn't exist.

I don't know where you are Ewok, but in the USA there's something called "innocent until proved guilty". Might be wise to bear that in mind.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2007-06-16 11:00:00

Proof of Employment - I'm self-employed...

Hello all.
I am bursting with questions - but I'll start with these two.

1) I was asked for proof of employment while filling out papers at the adoul's office: I told them, I am self-employed. They said I would need something - but I have to say, what is it they need?

2) When I was younger and easily stupider, to help my teacher get a work and residence visa years and years ago (just about 10), I filled out a marriage certificate in Morocco. And then, I never saw my teacher again. Ever. Now, today, I want to be married to another for love. But I am seriously concerned this old 'good deed' of mine is going to come back to haunt me. For example, I distinctly remember in the proceedings something that said 'You must never marry another Moroccan" I hope someone can relieve me of my concerns on this account.

(Additional info: The first Moroccan marriage never resulted in my teacher traveling to America, since I would have had to be part of that process - which I wasn't)

Anyway, I post these things somewhat anxiously and look forward to replies - thank you in advance!

If they are asking for proof of employment, and you are self-employed, then a letter from your company explaining your position and a business registration would suffice.

As for the other issue, I shall not comment.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2007-07-17 17:14:00

need help

QUOTE (anouar @ Feb 17 2008, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i want ask u other question cause before we did not record any conversation but i just start like 2 days before and i will stille record like nest month too til the day before my interview is that enough or not ?i will print all are conversation til the day before interview i think it s will be like 60 pages is that enough ?
i have call record and little email and mail like card for my birthday for new year and for valentine s day is that enough
my fiancee is pregnant too and i have baby picture inside her stomack and certificat from doctor that she was pregnant after her visit to me

thanks for all yr response

This is going to sound harsh, but pregnancy is proof of meeting? But it is really proof of meeting you? The pregnancy is one thing, physical proof such as boarding passes, airline tickets, itineraries, receipts are another.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-02-17 17:38:00

QUOTE (?JP? @ Jul 14 2008, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (diadromous mermaid @ Jul 14 2008, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Allousa,

I am not implying that you are hiding anything...I am just asking one simple thing, which is what is the disposition of your father-in-law's passport. Now 4 days have passed, and you claim you have spoken with your FIL, and an immigration attorney, yet you don't know what was written in or where his passport is yet? Surely a question like that is reasonable, why is it that in the numerous pages of responses, it is a question that you choose not to answer?

Maybe she doesn't care to share that information with you?

Perhaps, but if that were the case, then don't you think that simply adds to and perpetuates the drama?
Why even start the topic? Why not simply state that she is not willing to share? I am getting the feeling that you don't have much problem offending strangers, but are all afraid to speak the truth to each other!

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-07-14 15:26:00

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Jul 14 2008, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (allousa @ Jul 14 2008, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (amal @ Jul 14 2008, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have absolutely no useful information to share on how to help you but I want you to know that I'm praying for you and your family. How is your husband taking all this? I hope he is ok. I'm here for you if you need anything or just feel like venting. {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

amal

Amal, I tell you what WOULD help is that squirrel in your post pic rubbing MY shoulders. He would be free to eat all the birdseed I could buy if he would come over to my house!

lol

I am glad to see that you still have your sense of humor through this mess. I really feel for you right now. I can't imagine how I would feel if that was my father before he passed away. He was so frail as it was, to abuse him would have me steaming mad as well.

Sorry to see that this thread turned so nasty. I think we have to many different personalities that don't always know the best way to put express themselves, but the intentions were probably good to start. I think Diad is a little to blunt and to the point, and at this time a soft voice is always much needed.

You will always have support from us.

You know, I am just fed up with being the subject of your "MENA public hanging"! In my very first post, I asked a genuinely soft-voiced (aka kind) and courteous question of Allousa, not unlike the type of questioning that I sense perhaps her own attorney should ask, and from that point on all that has ensued is a MENA pity party and a public lynching, all at my expense. You should all wake up and stop making me your scapegoat. It's pathetic.

And to put this matter entirely to rest, I am neither rude, nor brutal nor blunt. If I offer factual information as a result of my concern for the OP's dilemma, please don't misconstrue that as being cold and detached. None of you knows what challenges I have faced in my life. I have shared nothing on this board as to the reason I came or choose to remain. I would challenge any of you to demonstrate that my participation on this board and general personal nature is anything but non-judgmental, proactive and helpful. I see that none of you have any trouble being as blunt, cruel and obnoxious as you desire when it comes to your commentary of me.

I'm not in your clique, and just because I don't practice sycophancy as I believe many of you do and am consequently shunned by many in this thread, please don't lump me into a group you believe is lacking in empathy or concern. I don't sugar-coat my words, not because I don't know how, but because it is highly unnecessary, at least, with genuine people that is. I approach all human beings with equal respect and attention. The mere fact that I ventured into a thread that belongs to a forum of topics that smack of "us versus them" should be clear enough on its face that I chose the place my own comfort at risk to help a fellow VJ member. I can't fathom how you can't see how ironic your behaviour is!

Allousa,

I am not implying that you are hiding anything...I am just asking one simple thing, which is what is the disposition of your father-in-law's passport. Now 4 days have passed, and you claim you have spoken with your FIL, and an immigration attorney, yet you don't know what was written in or where his passport is yet? Surely a question like that is reasonable, why is it that in the numerous pages of responses, it is a question that you choose not to answer?

I see now you've joined the crowd and are now criticising my delivery! I can't see anything in my words that speaks to anything insensitive. Perhaps it is your own overly sensitive nature that is at hand. And as a final comment, I think I would like to post your own quote as a message to you and any others that would like to continue to use me as their whipping post....

QUOTE

I ask that you walk a mile in my shoes first before you pass judgment on me and my reasons for posting here. This is a public forum and you have the right to say what you want. I'm just saying that your message of information is lost when you make subjective comments about my emotions and character.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-07-14 15:00:00

QUOTE (Wei&Shu(Joe) @ Jul 13 2008, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (diadromous mermaid @ Jul 13 2008, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (allousa @ Jul 13 2008, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My FIL was NEVER given a document to sign. NOT THE ENTIRE TIME WAS HE GIVEN A DOCUMENT TO SIGN.

Was he asked if he wanted to sign something?

QUOTE (allousa @ Jul 13 2008, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what my father in law told us, one of the CBP officers scratched through his passport but since they took it and put it in the sealed envelope to give to the German officials, we never saw what was written.

Where is the passport now? What is written in it?

P.S. I feel (a perception of course) like I am pulling teeth to get the information

There seems to clearly be 2 very separate issues that you seem not to be able to keep straight diad

One is why was her FIL refused. On this issue the OP states she has retained counsel. OP seems distressed and confused about why he was refused but this doesn't seem to be the source of outrage. You seem to repeatedly misattribute this as the source of outrage (as if it is the sole issue) and minimize the outrage by offering facts about reasons for refusal, for which issue OP has retained what sounds like very capable counsel. If you feel more capable than counsel to address this issue, then message OP privately with your business card.

Although the first issue is upsetting to the OP it seems quite clear (unless, of course we question your reading comprehension skills as you have rather arrogantly chosen to question other's) that the outrage part comes from something altogether different.
1) Being left without information on why a family member is being detained for an extended period of time.
2) Being left in an airport baggage claim with limited facilities with a small child during this episode.
3) Being yelled at in a threatening way when approaching customs to ask for information.
4)Being told many things by US officials (such as he won't be housed with the general population) that turned out not to be true.
5)Being left in the dark about why such action was necessary
6) et al. I'm sure I don't have them all covered.
I'm sure that counsel will address these issues also, most especially if refusal was not on solid ground. It is not at all surprising that at this point issue 1 and 2 weave together for the OP. If you are as clear-headed as you claim to be, you should be able to sort it out however.

The reason people have responded to your posts as "cold" is that issue one is clearly handled and issue two is the source of outrage. You suggest that the outrage at being treated in this way is misplaced and that the indignities they may have suffered (which she has described for you in detail) are not worthy of outrage, should the CBP action be technically valid. Whether you intend that message or not, that is what you communicate by ignoring the true source of her rage.

One sign you should look for of people with poor communication skills, when they receive feedback from multiple sources that their communication is being received poorly at the other end, rather than re-evaluate their communication, they attack others and forge ahead with why they are right.

It seems rather clear that for CBP to have notified the family that was waiting immediately, advised them of where their relatives were and that they were safe, allowed them to decide if all should wait or, if they expected a long detention, that the child could be taken home, treated the family (who you may recall is a USC and her perm res spouse and child) with respect and understanding for their difficult situation, offered them a contact person to check for updates, offered them facilities for a reasonably comfortable stay during their prolonged wait and advised them clearly of the reasons for the action being taken, it would not have violated any US law or immigration protocol. Unless you can sight for us the law requires border agents to act in abusive ways towards USC family of detainees, your attempts to demonstrate how smart you are on issue one will probably not be well taken.

Unless I am misreading the OP (and she may certainly correct me if I am) she seems understandably angry and confused about why her FIL was refused, but outraged about the way that her entire family, including USC were treated. Whether or not you intend it your posts come across as suggesting said treatment of USC and family is excusable, if there was good reason for refusal. It simply is not.

You took a very bad step step when you suggested that the outrage over issue 2 should be tempered depending on the outcome of issue 1. When posters pointed out that it was issue 2 that was the source of outrage, you continued to force feed info on issue 1, which made you seem insensitive to issue 2 and gave the appearance that you were more interested in showing how much you know than with helping the OP.

I'm sure everyone here is aware that detentions, interrogations and even refusals are possible. You may believe that during that process it doesn't really matter how USC, husband and child are treated. It is clear that what would have tempered the outrage would have been respectful, humane treatment of all involved. Unless you can cite the section of Immigration law that requires USC, husband and child to be treated like sh*t, I think your work here is done. I think we can all agree that you are a very, very smart person. Thanks for sharing.

OP has clearly demonstrated that she is in an emotionally vulnerable state and you have made it worse. By any definition I know, that does not qualify as help.

PS that perception of pulling teeth to get info might be because no one here retained you as counsel in the matter and so no one understands why you feel you are owed information.

The OP appeared outraged because her FIL was "deported" (she chose the word because she knew it would be better understood, or so she claimed). My reference to outrage was to the peanuts gallery that like lemmings were ready to jump off the cliff without any facts.

Why post the story if you are not going to respond to queries? Why ask questions? Why state that the FIL had no obvious reason to be removed, when clearly she did not understand the realm of reasons for ER? If she has counsel, and one that has all the answers, then there would be no need to post questions at all.

If the whole purpose of her post was to fan the flames and drum up a host of petition signatures, then I guess she achieved her ends and my time spent was to no avail. I wish her well. Let's hope she has good counsel.

As for the group that has demonstrated their support for Allousa by trashing mine, I have to say I haven't received this kind of a reception in all the years I've spent on VJ. You've proved to me that it's a waste of the time I put forth, and you deserve all that you get for your welcoming hospitality.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-07-13 18:47:00

QUOTE (S and S @ Jul 13 2008, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (diadromous mermaid @ Jul 13 2008, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (*Marilyn* @ Jul 13 2008, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

Honestly, you did try to point out some valid reasons and some information about how the process works. Which would have been fine and helpful. I don't think it was ever about that. The problem was with how you presented it. This is a sensitive time where emotions are high. The way you presented your information came off sounding unfeeling and harsh. It would be like a doctor telling someone their father is dead and offering no compassion, just start asking questions about what he did in his last days. You just need a little tact when offering information to someone who is obviously upset. I think if you had, the information would have been well recieved. I remember thinking from the beginning that you made good points, but that you really came off so cold that it was hard to want to see your points.

Oh, please. I was neither tactless nor cold. I didn't buy right into the "woe is me", the USA is a terrible place, because quite frankly, the jury is still out on that, so why would I bash my own country, until it is clearly necessary? Choosing to remain unemotional and not outraged, as others were wont to be is a far cry from being harsh, brutal, tactless and all other qualifiers that have been assigned to my contribution.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-07-13 18:31:00

QUOTE (*Marilyn* @ Jul 13 2008, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-07-13 17:49:00

QUOTE (?JP? @ Jul 13 2008, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (diadromous mermaid @ Jul 13 2008, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once again, reading comprehension is clearly not your forté, JP. I would appreciate not putting words in my mouth, thank you. I never suggested when she should look at the links, I said it was a "good start" as is the formal complaint form that is provide by me. Nonetheless, I am dismayed that before commenting to the contrary about members that have taken time to read about her dilemma and offer HELPFUL support (yes, that comes in all sorts of packages, INCLUDING information!) that others wouldn't be somewhat more curious.

Ok so now I have reading comprehension issues too? Wonderul! You know I think the same can be said about you. No one has ever said that you didn't offer good information. However that isn't what she was looking for. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

Ah, I see. So the whole thread was just for ranting and venting. Got it! Not my bag. Are there any other threads I shouldn't participate in, then?

diadromous mermaid

Female

2008-07-13 17:45:00