Forum	Title	Content	Member	Sex	Country	Date/Time
Philippines	Consular outreach	You have to see how your consulate works the outreach program. We're still waiting to get contacted by the consulate on our appointment for the outreach in Minnesota, we go through the Chicago office. I've heard you can wait in line if you don't have an appointment, but the line is extremely long here. As the consulate explained it to me, here they start working on the next one, once they've finished the last one. The last Chicago held was the 28th of July and the one here is the 11th of August. But they wanted our application turned in a month ahead of time. The location was just posted about a week ago, so everything is pretty much set up at the last minute. Maybe your office has a little more planning than Chicago does. But its always been easy to call the consulate and get updates on what to do and what the current plan is.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-07-31 17:24:00
Philippines	CFO guidance and counseling form	http://www.cfo.gov.p...trationform.pdf	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-06-26 10:23:00
Philippines	When to buy plane tickets through K1 process	I bought a one way ticket 30 days ahead of time when we scheduled the interview. It was a one way ticket, which was cheaper. Also I could change the date with a reasonable fee. I didn't even consider the possibility of a denial. It did get close to having to reschedule due to suddenly declared extra holidays in the Philippines but everything worked out.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-06-08 14:59:00
Philippines	after 5 days of arrival my fiance apply for his SSN...usually how long it will take for him to get the actual card?	It just took my wife about 4 weeks to get an updated SSC without the requiring authorization to work note on it. There was an error in the USCIS computer system (it listed her by her maiden name, and not her married name) which they needed to straighten out first. SSA agent saw the problem and sent a message to USCIS to correct it right away. Given ours was a two step process, four weeks was pretty fast to get the updated SS card. BTW we just did this about 6 weeks ago. Edited by Caryh, 11 October 2012 - 04:20 PM.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-10-11 16:20:00
Philippines	Costs that we should plan for in Visa process	Delbros fee was a fee that used to be paid to a private company for document verification and delivery. That information is a couple years obsolete.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-06-13 09:01:00
Philippines	Another 2GO question, no updates	that's comforting to know that 2go delivers on a Saturday. My wife received her's on a Saturday, but we were never able to track the package, we were just surprised when it showed up one day. That was a bit over a year ago. The clerk at 2Go told my wife sometimes they never get entered into the customer tracking system.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-02 15:23:00
Philippines	Employer Letter?	When my wife and I were going through the K-1 process, and I myself felt uncomfortable handing over certain information, she said this to me, "Are you OK with the delay if they demand to see it and I don't have it to show?". You can skip including it, but if they want to see it you're going to have to give it to them and that slows down the process. Its all up to the person doing the interview or petition if they want to see it or not. Their word is final and their requests can't be ignored, unless you want to accept a denial. You might get by with not including it, but do you want to wait an extra couple of months over the employment letter if they do want to see it?	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-07 10:11:00
Philippines	Philippine debt	Any person owing money is protected by the constitution of the Philippines. No person shall be imprisoned for non-payment of debt or poll tax. The creditor can always sue that person in court. But that person cannot go to jail. Works the same as hospitals being required to release people even if they haven't paid their bill yet. There's a lot of good words in the constitution of the Philippines, but the practice seems much different. Maybe its the difference between being detained and imprisoned so they can do it. I wouldn't put a lot a faith in words on paper for what cannot be done in the Philippines and what is commonly done in the Philippines. Here's a good part of the Philippines constitution Article II Section 27. The State shall maintain honesty and integrity in the public service and take positive and effective measures against graft and corruption.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-06-20 12:49:00
Philippines	Philippine debt	My wife ran a loan business in the Philippines. Those that did not pay their loans and refused to make arrangements to pay did get cases filed on them. Once they found the person who owed the debt, they could have the police arrest them. I would assume any case the police could make an arrest on would show up on the NBI report. There were costs involved to the loan firm for all this, as the courts don't work for free and neither do the police, so it was only used when no other option was available. Mostly they just continued to try to get the debt paid or some form of collateral they could sell if the customer could never make good on the debt. Digital cameras, TV's, scooters, high end cell phones, were constantly be held when people didn't pay.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-06-20 11:00:00
Philippines	Banking In The Philippines	If they've locked your account down and they require an in person appearance, you're kind of stuck. There is no way to view it once an account is locked down. The problem is in their methods to unlock it. Don't expect them to budge on that. I'm not sure if you've been able to move up the line to a manager, but if you can talk with someone in authority, maybe they'll understand an be able to unlock the account for you. The Philippines way of doing business is not via phone or internet, its still mainly based on in face transactions.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-09 15:28:00
Philippines	Divorce in Norway recognized in other countries?	So if it was my Norwegian ex who filed for the divorce here in Norway, it will be recognized in the Philippines without any problem? Is that what you're saying? Does he have to contact the National Statistics Office or NSO in Manila to let them know about our divorce once it's granted? How exactly does one proceed after the divorce is granted? Thanks. As other's have said, if you're not getting an interview in the Philippines, it doesn't matter who filed. It only matters in relation to the Philippines government. If you remarry, you'll continue to carry what every name you took on when your first marriage occurred in the Philippines. If you're not sure if the first marriage was really recorded, you can request the Cenomar from the CFO. There's a web site where you can order if from abroad and it will be mailed to you. Getting your divorce recognized in the Philippines requires going to court there, or having a lawyer do it for you. They need a copy of the divorce decree and a copy of the laws pertaining to divorce in the country it was given. The court is supposed to go over those documents and make sure if was filed for by the non-Filipino, and followed the country's laws. Once they've reviewed it and rule that it was a valid divorce, that ruling then needs to be sent by you or your representative to the NSO. Its not near as intensive or long as getting an annulment in the Philippines. All of this only matters if you want be considered no longer married to your ex-husband in the Philippines. If you never plan to return, or reclaim any rights in the Philippines, it doesn't really matter. Or if you want to get a passport in a new married name, which also requires registering a new marriage.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-20 08:45:00
Philippines	Divorce in Norway recognized in other countries?	The divorce is recognized in all countries except the Philippines for the Philippine citizen. The Philippines does recognize the divorces of citizens of other countries. If the non-filipino national filed for the divorce, you can get the divorce recognized in the Philippines, but not if the Philippines citizen filed for the divorce. There is an extra step of getting the courts in the Philippines to recognize the divorce was granted based on the laws of the country it was granted under, then submitting those results to the NSO. But the courts will not recognize a divorce filed for by a Philippines citizen or between to Philippine citizens. Its a strange set of rules in the Philippines, a non-citizen can be considered divorced from his/her Filipino spouse, while that Filipino spouse is still considered married to the foreigner.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-19 16:20:00
Philippines	Sputnum	If you're concerned, have her get a complete physical long before. I know I had my wife go through one while we were putting together the petition. But she kept getting a recurring cough, which was constantly worrying me. Her X-rays were clear, which made us both feel better. Turns out her cough was because she burned the grass from the yard after mowing it with her bolo knife all the time. The fumes from that were constantly bring back a cough. They quit burning and the cough never came back. It also gave us peace of mind when she needed to go to St Lukes for the medical. I wouldn't bring the X-Ray. They're going to take their own and if you get a fuzzy one, they may decide to do further testing bases on the X-ray you brought in and she would have been clear on theirs. I guess I viewed it as doubling the chance they would see something they worried about, so I told my wife not to bring her's.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-27 15:05:00
Philippines	Please Help! How can I get a Affidavit in Lieu of a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage in bacolod!?	Why are you not asking your fiancée or her family to chase this part down? You need someone in the area they live in and someone who cares that the results are done right. Her and her family are the ones that match that description. My wife lived in a Davao City and is in the USA now. When we need information to accomplish something in her home town, we rely on her family to chase it down for us. What you want to do should really be discussed in person and not over the phone or email. Now my next question is.. Do you think or know anybody how i can get a number to a judge or anybody?? Can you ask your philipino.. wife please? I need some number where i can call and inquire about early marriage .. perferably in bacolod or any cities near it. Not manila. Thanks!	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-26 11:36:00
Philippines	Please Help! How can I get a Affidavit in Lieu of a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage in bacolod!?	There are businesses outside the embassy that will store your cell phone for a small fee. You're not allowed to bring electronic devices at all. Its a security thing. You'll have to check with your local courthouse to find out how soon you can get a certified copy of your divorce. A certified copy usually has a raised seal, so you need to get them from the court. Some places send you one when a divorce is finalized. My own state doesn't, I had to go to the courthouse and pay a very small fee for it. The parking cost more than the copy. There's also usually a timing issue between the divorce being final and the divorce decree being available. The judge signed mine in court, but it was over a week before it was available to get a copy. Turned out my official divorced date was a number of days after the judge signed it to, it had to sit in line to get entered into the records. Don't wear shorts and sandals to the embassy. Better to dress in nice slacks and dress shoes, but its not required. That's probably more important when you're dealing with the local government where you'll get married. Have your fiancée go find a judge where she lives to perform the ceremony and explain the circumstances. Its probably your best bet at having someone who can get the marriage done before the waiting period is over. The clerk at the courthouse might offer an expedite for a fee to. Given your time frame, I'd try to see what can get lined up ahead of time. Maybe they can start the waiting period and publication before you get there? Things can work a bit strange in the Philippines, from extra easy to impossible.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-21 12:03:00
Philippines	Please Help! How can I get a Affidavit in Lieu of a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage in bacolod!?	Im japanese.. i live in socal... i thought you put down the country you are from... but im a us citizen just got my passport last month Actually you put down the country of the person immigrating to the USA. It makes it easier for people to help you with questions, as parts of this process are country specific. Like your question about the Affidavit in Lieu of a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage. In case you're not aware, there is a 10 day waiting period between getting the marriage license and being able to have the ceremony. You can't get the license until you get the Affidavit, so make sure you give yourself enough time in country.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-20 08:51:00
Philippines	Please Help! How can I get a Affidavit in Lieu of a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage in bacolod!?	Well there is always the spreading kwarta around option, but there's always the danger it doesn't work, or you think it did but its all faked papers and it bites you in the butt later. You may of said " im not staying in manila.. or going to cebu! " but that doesn't change the reality.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-19 13:00:00
Philippines	Please Help! How can I get a Affidavit in Lieu of a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage in bacolod!?	Just you.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-19 12:57:00
Philippines	Please Help! How can I get a Affidavit in Lieu of a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage in bacolod!?	I've heard people easily get it done in one day. Its not a hard process, you swear to them you can marry and they create the certificate you need. The embassy is a few miles away from the airport, but Manila traffic can make it seem a lot further. Make sure you go the embassy when its not a USA or Philippine holiday. They close for both. Okay so if i go to the embassy and take a day triip there do i get the affidavate in 1 day??? or does it take several days? .. i just want to go there and do all this in one day and get back on the plane? Also is the embassy near the airport in manila?	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-19 10:28:00
Philippines	Please Help! How can I get a Affidavit in Lieu of a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage in bacolod!?	It is only available through the US embassy there. They have no branch in Bacolod. That said many times the need for meeting official requirements in the Philippines can disappear when you include extra fees at the registration location. There is no guarantee these extra fee steps will be available to you, and they may be more than stopping in Manila or Cebu. Be careful of fixers to, often times you think you got what you need, only to find later you've only gotten a lighter wallet. A marriage certificate that never reaches the NSO, isn't going to do you a lot of good. Man i just said.. im not staying in manila.. or going to cebu! There other filipino girls to marry then just in cebu and manila... Where can i go in bacolod to get it or.. does anybody know a hook up to get married in bacolod without the afficavite?	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-19 09:34:00
Philippines	she's getting on theplane in 12 hours HELP	Smart plan. I'm surprised you got to this point already without feeling you're sending too much personal information to the Philippines. I know I was feeling that way back then. I remember my wife said do I mind waiting longer if they want it? After that I sent her a copy of anything she asked for, with instructions to only give photocopies and to redact certain types of person info such as my SS number. I emailed her the copy of front of id and cc. I told her to just keep it and use it if needed, anyway if they try to use the cc, i plan on reporting it lost once she lands. at least that way the card cant be used. my ID on the other hand. Yes I want her here, I miss her dearly, but having my identity stolen will be really hard to fix but i guess no one here had that happen... yet. THX everyone.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-29 15:45:00
Philippines	she's getting on theplane in 12 hours HELP	Knowing airlines and the Philippines, it won't matter if it was bought through Travelocity. The workers follow the script they're given. Failure to do so puts their jobs at risk. Do you really want to chance her not being allowed to board the plane?	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-11-29 11:53:00
Philippines	Super Typhoon Bopha/Pablo	Yes, we're praying our family and friends there will all be safe.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-03 13:57:00
Philippines	Do we receive text message or mailed NOA2?	We received the text message and email before the letter showed up.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-03 13:43:00
Philippines	Working in the States after marriage	You need to apply for your AOS and also the EAD/AP at the same time. The EAD authorizes you to work in the USA. You cannot legally work without the EAD, or the green card. The EAD comes in about 2 to 3 months after filing. The EAD and AP fees are waived if applied for with the AOS.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-04 12:21:00
Philippines	Newbie need help pls	She may want to start working on the police clearance from Hong Kong now. But besides the signed biographical biographical sheet (G-325A), and the letter of intent to marry in 90 days, there is little needed from your fiancée at this point. Doesn't hurt to get NSO birth certificates now and make sure they are correct with no errors in them. If she was married before, proof the marriage was terminated. Which would be the CENOMAR in the Philippines.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-03 13:53:00
Philippines	Weather	If you really want to be mean, tell her this is the hot time of year when you arrive in January Sitting in Manila now at 7:30am and it is 26C (79F) and it is 1C (33F) back home. My poor wife is going to freeze even though she complained about how hot it was last night. I am glad to miss a good chunk of Winter by staying in Manila this month. It is rather cruel of me to bring Michelle into the freezing Midwest in the beginning of January but at least this way it will only get better for her as the year progresses.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-06 08:25:00
Philippines	Weather	Heck my wife will feel cold at 80 degrees! She runs around the house with her socks or slippers on or her feet turn into ice cubes. I'm really glad our quad style townhouse has a southern exposure and lots of glass. It heats cheaper than it air conditions, so we actually save money with the 80 degree temps and this is Minnesota! At night its switched down to 72 in heat mode, but she's under the quilt while I sleep on top of the covers. I just roll over next to her if I get chilly, as she radiates a cloud of heat around her. I recall back in her home town, when the temps dropped down around 80, they all stated throwing on sweatshirts and sweaters. I was just thinking it was getting comfortable and they were getting cold. Wow, we keep the house at 71 deg. now only for the 8 month old. Jena never really gets cold and the last time we vacationed in Phils she mentioned she could never move back to that climate. We both enjoy the 4 seasons here in central IL. She went ice skating her first year here and some friends were ice fishing on the same pond. The only thing that freaked her out was the cracking noise of the ice and her butt was a little sore the next day	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-05 14:59:00
Philippines	Weather	My wife isn't a trooper at all with the Minnesota cold. If she feels cold air on her skin she says she's cold lol. But then I've spoiled her to the hilt. Last winter, which was so mild, she spent in the house with the temperature set at 80. She started working in the spring and we bought her a new car. Its parked in a tuck under garage and has heated seats. She warms it up before leaving either from home or work with a remote start. This year we're working at exposing her to in house temps of 76 in the morning and 78 in the evening. Of course at work she needs to live with the work set temps. She's got some very warm gear so she can be outside, but doesn't like being weighed down so much. She's not too worried about the cold this year though, like she was the first winter. Now she's worried about learning to drive in the snow. She's already a cautious driver, so I'm not really worried about her catching on quickly. As to Mille Lacs, she was in total amazement at being out on the ice last year. I'd shown her pictures and video of being on the ice before she got here, still she found it hard to believe we were driving around on and sitting in a house on the ice. Yes, we have been lucky so far. I too am getting back into winter as i was gone a few years living in the PI and working in asia. My wife has been a trooper, although she hasn't seen MN cold yet. She has sat outside in 17 degrees while I was cooking pork chops, but hasn't felt the -40 on Lake Mille Lacs ice fishing. I'm not sure I'm ready for it too. Helps I work overnights in the cold some nights, no choice but to thicken the blood. My wife looks cute as hell all bundled up though. Haha, the 90 degree difference will be here shortly.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-05 08:37:00
Philippines	Weather	Yep its a crazy December in the northland right now. My wife doesn't realize how easy she's been getting off on Minnesota winters, this one and last years. BTW she still thinks its cold though	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-03 16:19:00
Philippines	Engagement ring, bring or ship? VAT- (Tax?)	Send them in a Balikbayan box. It will take much longer and be late, but for those receiving them, it will seem like Christmas even if its February. WOW, i was thinking to send xmas presents, but looking at this, i think i will wait for my next trip. i guest it will be a late xmas.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-07 15:03:00
Philippines	Phil/Am Christmas Parties	If they do have a Santo Nino prayer group, I'm not aware of it. We're really not that tight with the group, we have our own circle of Fil/AM friends who we mostly hang out with. We just go to the bigger events they host, although we are members of the group. There's actually more than one Fil/Am group in the Minneapolis/ST Paul area. We joined the other group to, but it appears they lost our application but kept the money, as they've never put us on their mailing list Then there's the Filipino student group, a Filipino Church, and a Filipino Women's Network, Philippines Center (which recently purchased their own building), plus more. Some are closely related and some seem to act in competition with each other. Do they also do a traveling Santo Nino prayer group throughout the year? The way I understand it, the statue travels from house to house and the group gathers for prayers and a meal each month. I'm not sure if I have all the details correct. We've been invited but that would mean our house would have to be spotless and it seems like a lot of work	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-10 15:17:00
Philippines	Phil/Am Christmas Parties	The Pasko celebration was in Lake Elmo (east of St Paul) at Guardian Angels Church. Sorry I didn't see this until now. Below is a link to the groups facebook page. They usually add events to it before they come up, but not always. If you go to their notes section of the FB page, they have a link to their google calendar, which shows everything they're up to. https://www.facebook.../csfamn?fref=ts The next event they have is CSFA Carolers at Simbang Gabi When Sat, December 22, 6am – 7am Where Blessed Sacrament Church, 1801 LaCrosse Avenue Saint Paul, MN 55119 where in minnesota???	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-10 12:40:00
Philippines	Phil/Am Christmas Parties	Yep, one of the local Filipino organizations is holding one this weekend in the Minnesota. I had asked the wife if she wanted to go and of course she said yes. Afterwards we're going to a Mexican restaurant, and I mean one that Mexicans hang out in, to watch the Pacquiao vs. Marquez fight. I have a 50P bet with my wife on the outcome, I've got Pacquiao My wife has always rooted for him to loose	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-07 09:38:00
Philippines	Father would not give up K2	Just to add, since when did hard evidence even matter in the Philippines? People go to jail on a rumor, while others walk free with blood on one hand and the smoking gun in the other. What would you consider hard evidence?	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-10 15:24:00
Philippines	Father would not give up K2	I find it interesting how most everyone here supports the mother taking the child away from its father when its the child coming to the USA. Yet there is a total reversal of attitudes when a divorced Filipina runs back home to the Philippines with a child she had with an American. The father is involved in this child's life. This matters a lot, and some form of agreement needs to be worked out regardless of her ability to leave the country with their daughter.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-07 14:57:00
Philippines	Second Wedding for Her Family	I have heard of some Catholic churches in the USA allowing this. You're getting your pre-cana course in through an alternate method, so no worries for you. You're right, they must be granting us an exception. We are registered for a 2-day pre-cana thing when I get there and we are having counseling every couple of weeks over Skype until then so that gives me peace of mind that they are still making us meet the requirements but in a "crash course" kind of thing. We are also going to get married in a different diocese so that could also explain it.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-14 14:45:00
Philippines	Second Wedding for Her Family	You can only re-new vows in the Catholic Church if you were already married in the Catholic Church. If it was a civil ceremony or in any other church, they consider it a first wedding and require everything a first wedding requires. Its best if she can get a family member to engage the priest and make sure you have all his requirements written down before even leaving for there. You will only be re-newing vows. Now if you are wanting to get married in a catholic church you are in for some surprises... errrr demands by the church.... errr requests.... errr requirements.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-14 10:27:00
Philippines	Pictures of ex-wife	hehehe.. i can relate... before i came here i told him that i don't want to see pictures of her X hanging on the wall or picture frames display and in fairness to him really there is none but one time when i am searching what's in his garage i saw a bunch of albums in a big container but i didn't get mad at him bcoz i know it's his past but what i did i threw most of the pictures with his x-wife but pictures with x-wife with kids i didn't throw it bcoz i thought that someday the kids wants to see old pictures of their family too, what i did i put all together their pictures with their mom and dad in one album... it's a big deal for me if he is hiding pictures of her x-wife in his wallet lol.... i will really get mad for sure... Wish my wife was confiding in you when she found old pictures of my ex	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-14 14:48:00
Philippines	Pictures of ex-wife	Rut Roh Shaggy. I've been there, done that, suffered the tampo, and bought the T-shirt. Although I was much worse. When I separated with my ex, many things got shuffled into boxes that I never opened. Not too long before my wife got to the USA, I moved again, we were in the K-1 petitioning process. Some of those boxes, which had been in storage, we're just falling apart when I went to move, so things just got kind of thrown into new places randomly. A picture of my ex and I ended up in a keep sake box I have. I'd had that keep sake box stored and had not looked through it in years. When I got to the new place, I put it on the dresser in bedroom. Well my new wife did go through it, and guess what she found, a picture of the ex in a stack of pictures I quickly threw in there while dealing with an old stored box that was falling apart. Boom, big tampo number one. Now years ago I had gone through a lot of pictures that were not in storage, throwing pictures that included my ex. I also at one point got all my mother's photo albums when she went into a nursing home. These were also kept in boxes in storage. When I moved, I put my mother's boxes in my office intending to sort through what was junk and what should be saved. I never did, but my wife did! Boom big tampo number two! These were not even my pictures, but I certainly took the heat for them. So now I was really scared. I realized I still had boxes and boxes full of old stuff I had not gone through in years. Well my wife needs about two hours more sleep a day than I seem to need. So after that I started going in the garage on weekend mornings and going through each and every box carefully. Boy would I have been in for more trouble eventually. I found a batch of old photo albums which happened to include not only my ex, but many old girlfriends over the years. Funny thing was, when my wife found my mother's old photo albums, she didn't care one bit about pictures my mother had of me with old girlfriends. Two of which were women I actually lived with for a short time. But pictures of the ex, now those were like the worst offense I could have ever committed. At least I was saved from photo tragedy tampo number 3. Another funny thing about those old photo albums of mine, you could see where pictures had been removed from yellowing on the white card board. My wife asked if those were pictures of my ex I had thrown away, and I just smiled a small smile and said, they must have been bad pictures. She asked nothing more, but I'm positive she knew who was really in those pictures and was just happy they were gone. Do your time in tampo, but don't forget this. Your wife probably has all the time in the world now to go through everything in your home. Make sure you no longer have any more pictures of your ex when your wife is not there to see you getting rid of them. If you want to get out of tampo earlier, you can do a bit of lambing when she's ready for it.	Caryh	Male	Philippines	2012-12-14 10:13:00