biggish data

miss ya all

I'm so sorry to hear about your accident. I hope you recover fine and we see you more often.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-11-30 00:40:00

hey guys

QUOTE (Rajaa_Reda @ Dec 1 2008, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Nawal @ Dec 1 2008, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aww thanks for your sweet words! And yes, I have to agree...sweetest and cutest babies!!!

More babies and twins to come!! YAY!!!

Insha'allah

I second that inshallah!!!

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-02 00:35:00

QUOTE (Rajaa_Reda @ Dec 1 2008, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (S and S @ Dec 1 2008, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Rajaa_Reda @ Dec 1 2008, 11:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (S and S @ Dec 1 2008, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Rajaa_Reda @ Dec 1 2008, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

heheheheh i started posting in the phillipean section lol

lol, let us know how that goes!

I think I am bored and MENA seems quite tonight. OH here's an idea? Howa 'bout cleaning uughh ok REading???? nawwww

there's got to be something to do????? Iknow maybe try to sleep at a decent time for a change... you too SS you have alot coming down here real soon??

Yeah, its coming down to the wire and I can't wait. 8 days left to go. He asked me to make a packing list for him so he wouldn't forget anything. Of course, this meant I included everything in the packing list like socks, shirts, pants, shoes, comb, cologne, etc. I even advised him on what to wear while flying. His family saw the list and died laughing saying that I must expect they might send him here naked or something, lol.

I bet they did laugh but mashallah you're the sweetest worrying like that. My packing list will go something like this.... habibi bring some Olive oil from the family's farm, Kaftah in dark Blue and gold, bring some of those floor seeating things i liked in Marakesh you told me to get "after" (wth that ment still don't know

). Ummm oh those really good almond cookies i like from the bakery accross the street from his parents house and anything or art he thinks will make him feel more at home... i might add, bring a coat etc but more like an after thought

OOOOHHH and my boss totally is trying to take away my off day on my husband's interview day... No WAAAaaaY!

lol, I can't help it. I get these packing list ideas from somewhere, not sure where (cough). I wasn't in Jordan long enough to really see much I wanted though he is bringing me an extra prayer outfit and rug so I don't have to keep bringing mine to and from work. That will be nice.

I just checked the weather forecast for the day he arrives. Can't believe I can finally do that, lol. Anyway, they are reporting snow showers. Not sure if that will hold by the time he comes but that should make for an interesting drive home, lol.

Oh yeah, don't let your boss take your day away. That should totally be yours!

Edited by S and S, 02 December 2008 - 12:46 AM.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-02 00:45:00

QUOTE (Rajaa_Reda @ Dec 1 2008, 11:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (S and S @ Dec 1 2008, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Rajaa_Reda @ Dec 1 2008, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

heheheheh i started posting in the phillipean section lol

lol, let us know how that goes!

I think I am bored and MENA seems quite tonight. OH here's an idea? Howa 'bout cleaning uughh ok REading???? nawwww

there's got to be something to do????? Iknow maybe try to sleep at a decent time for a change... you too SS you have alot coming down here real soon??

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-02 00:34:00

QUOTE (Rajaa_Reda @ Dec 1 2008, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

heheheheh i started posting in the phillipean section lol

lol, let us know how that goes!

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-02 00:16:00

QUOTE (just_Jackie @ Dec 1 2008, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your man arrives in 8 days!!!!!!!!! wow! That's great!

I've been up since 5:30 too. I am exhausted now mentally and physically.

I know, I am so excited. Its almost down to one week!

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-01 21:55:00

I've been awake since 5:30am and so tired from staying up late. I nearly fell asleep on the drive home from work! Guess I'll have to get to bed earlier tonight, lol. I hope everyone survived this Monday okay after the long weekend.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-01 18:53:00

Better late than never

QUOTE (Rajaa_Reda @ Nov 18 2008, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (S and S @ Nov 17 2008, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome, it is good to have another MENA member around. I think I was lurking on here for about 6 to 8 months before I finally joined myself.

I wish you the best of luck in your journey

lol... i know it may be hard to believe but I jumped in the day i joined

was i the only one???

To be honest I wish I had joined sooner as I would have gotten a lot of helpful advice that might have made the process easier. In that sense you were probably smarter than me, lol.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-11-18 01:08:00

Better late than never

Welcome, it is good to have another MENA member around. I think I was lurking on here for about 6 to 8 months before I finally joined myself.

I wish you the best of luck in your journey

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-11-18 01:01:00

QUOTE (ARALB @ Dec 2 2008, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (S and S @ Dec 2 2008, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (just_Jackie @ Dec 2 2008, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I should do a before and after pic!

2 more hours of work. I love my job. It's like sitting at home only no cat.

jJ

Its easier to walk when I am at work because I have an evil cat who is determined to kill me on the stairs. I am convinced of it though I told her she is not on my life insurance policy, lol.

ha ha! too funny- my pomeranian is the same way! -- You'd think she couldn't see me coming a lot of the time! Pets are NUTS!

I wish I could say my cat doesn't see me coming, but she actually races ahead of me when I go up or down the stairs and then she stops in the middle of them and sprawls out so I have to skip a step. She usually does this just as I'm going to put my foot on that step and then has the nerve to meow angrily if I accidentally brush her with my feet (I don't even actually step on her). Sometimes to avoid this I just pick her up and carry her so she can't get in my way, lol.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-02 19:15:00

QUOTE (just_Jackie @ Dec 2 2008, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I should do a before and after pic!

2 more hours of work. I love my job. It's like sitting at home only no cat.

jJ

Its easier to walk when I am at work because I have an evil cat who is determined to kill me on the stairs. I am convinced of it though I told her she is not on my life insurance policy, lol.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-02 19:07:00

QUOTE (just_Jackie @ Dec 2 2008, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure is getting close now! I can't wait to do the 'homecoming' countdown!

Any projects? I think I'm gonna paint the kitchen a warm color. I was looking in a magazine today at spice colors, like paprika and saffron.

Nice pick for colors. If you redo the kitchen be sure to post pictures for us to see. I don't own my house so I can't really paint anything, but I have fixed up all the areas I wanted to and I bought all new bedroom furniture in the spring in anticipation of my husband coming.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-02 18:31:00

I just got home from work and thought I would drop in. Hope everyone's day went well. Nothing exciting for me except watching my countdown on my siggy

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-02 18:24:00

Ibrahim's K3 interview results

Congratulations Jackie!!! Glad to hear things went fine.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-01 18:42:00

Asking for Prayers again!

My heart goes out to you and your family. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-11-29 15:26:00

It's Thursday! And it's a boy!

Congratulations again ARALB. I am so happy for you

You are that much closer to seeing your husband.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-05 00:58:00

Interview results....

I'm sorry I missed the party last night. I had to go get my father from the airport last night and then talked to my husband until late.

It sounds like the interview went fine and soon inshallah your SO will have his visa.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-04 22:03:00

Happy Friday!!!

Good morning MENA, thank god it is Friday. I hope everyone has a great day.

Bridget- That is so sweet about your husband doing that for your daughter.

Star- I hope this means progress and you have good news soon.

Jackie- That is way to cold where you are. Thanks for making me feel better about it being 20 degrees here, lol.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-05 09:09:00

She got me upset again the other day. My pay has a mistake and they are taking $1200 from my paycheck this month which is not a good time (not that any time is good). She made a comment that I should have all this money saved and it shouldn't be a problem. Well, I have had a lot of expenses this year. I bought a new bedroom set for when my husband comes. I've been helping my family with money and many other things happened so I lost what money I did have saved. She said even if I only made $800 a month I should be saving money. I couldn't believe it. Of course her husband makes twice the amount of money I do so this is easy for her to say. Not only that but she only started working this year and she can keep all her money for herself as her husband pays all the bills and still has money left over. I explained all this to her and she still said I had no excuse for not saving! I think she has no idea of the costs of really living here. I have not bought clothes for myself since the spring. I did not go to a hair stylist for more than one year. I chose to spend my money on my home and my family. Once my husband comes and can start working it will be different. I wanted to tell her that she should try living on only her paycheck sometime and then see if she can save money. Anyway, I have avoided her since then. God knows what I might say if I see her soon.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-12-06 14:05:00

QUOTE (Y_habibitk @ Nov 18 2008, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (S and S @ Nov 18 2008, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She has become more civil to me which is an improvement, but I just don't trust her. She knows a lot of people are friends with me at work and it makes me think she does it just so she doesn't look bad. Anyway, I just try to be nice as well (even in times where she doesn't acknowledge me lol), but no plans on her becoming a close friend or anything.

Good! it sounds like it is as good as it will get. Civil is good...

Lisa

Thanks for asking and you are right. Civil works fine

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-11-18 23:50:00

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-11-18 23:26:00

QUOTE (palilover @ Oct 9 2008, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (S and S @ Oct 9 2008, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Ganja_Girl @ Oct 9 2008, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE

My husband lived in Baghdad for the first few years of the war, but he only mentions small things here and there. Honestly, you can tell it bothers him to talk about it. He has mentioned a couple things like you get used to passing by dead bodies on the street right after an explosion or shooting. Eventually and hopefully, the family will collect the body so not much you can do. He talked about how numb you get to it all. For instance he told me about seeing one store owner that calmly cleaned someone's brains off his store sign shortly after an explosion. Cleaning such things off your store front becomes a regular thing you don't think about much after awhile. My husband says you just have to deal with it because it happens over and over. Freaking out or going crazy isn't going to help you as you have to life your life somehow. You try to be cautious and careful and limit your exposure to danger, but sitting in your house all the time for years gets old so sometimes you just risk it to get out.

Sounds like living in south central in the 70's and 80's, talk about running for your life, and not crossing certain lines, and going into different gang lands. Hearing gun shots, police in the air, oh what childhood memories.

Minus the suicide bombers, car bombs, mortors, rockets, military checkpoints, militia checkpoints, etc.

um...yeah. Even though we do have issues in this country, it is nothing like what they face over there. When I was in Palestine during a curfew where there was shooting outside, my sister in law over there asked me if we had problems in America. I was kinda dumbfounded as to what to say. Clearly it was not like what they experience, but for some odd reason I did not want to just blurt out "No your the only one who goes through that". You know, kinda like when you are over here and you are facing a problem you wanna feel like someone else has the same problem as you right? I don't know if I explained that properly. In fact, I do not remember what I said in response to her question. I was in total shock she asked it really. I dont know why.
What makes me mad too is how people who have nevert been in that environment bllindly judge. And yes, I used to be one of them before i met that iraqi guy and discovered that hey, these people have hopes and families and dreams like we do in America. There are great people there and why are they suffering becaues of corrupt government, ignorant people, people who want to kill for greed, money, whatever. Or worese in some areas, why are they dying because a certain few feel that their Islam is superior to that of the rest ? People's ignorance of the region when they only read books or news but have not actually seen what people go through (talking about civilians, not working in the Green Zone with the embassy) makes me mad.

The Palestinians have many of the same water and electric issues right? I know they were happy to report that recently Baghdad residents now get 6 hours of electricity a day instead of two. If you can call that an improvement. Still doesn't do much for refrigeration issues.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-09 17:20:00

QUOTE (Ganja_Girl @ Oct 9 2008, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE

Minus the suicide bombers, car bombs, mortors, rockets, military checkpoints, militia checkpoints, etc.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-09 16:57:00

QUOTE (palilover @ Oct 9 2008, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (S and S @ Oct 9 2008, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Y_habibitk @ Oct 8 2008, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

S and S,

I hope you got something out of this thread, to help you deal with this woman at your work. Per the norm, it somehow turned into a little zoo lol

Good luck in however you decide to handle it.

Lisa

Thanks Lisa, I think I got some good ideas and support here. Also, if nothing else, it felt good to get the frustration out with people who have an idea of what I am talking about and how it feels. I am one of those people that tries to see the good in all people. Its not to say I'm perfect and don't slip, but I honestly try. If I hear an arab bash on America then I defend it. For instance, when I was visiting some of my husband's cousins the conversation turned to politics and the US. Of course they are Iraqi and living as refugees just trying to survive so I really understand they aren't going to be very happy. Yet I took me "okay" arabic and told them all about our health care issues here in the US. By the end of the conversation they were feeling sorry for American's! lol, just telling them how much it costs to have a baby without insurance here blew their minds.

On another note, I get tired of hearing people bash on the Iraqi people and say Americans would never act like them in time of war or disaster. Iraqis are doing the best they can while living in constant violence, limited electricity and contaminated water. Even going to work is taking your life into your hands and thousands have died from doing that alone. Then I point out how things turned in New Orleans after Katrina. Lawlessness can happen anywhere under the right circumstances and it is not on us to judge until we live through it. Just like those kids we see begging on the streets over in the middle east, take a look at our past and during the depression. Parents were doing the same thing with their kids. We just live better right now so you rarely see it (or at least for the moment).

I do believe Americans are the most giving and helpful (on the whole). We are raised with the idea of helping others and giving from the time we can walk and talk. It isn't even just a "Christian" thing. I've had athiest friends help me out in a time of need. In fact, if you look at some mosques around the US, they are helping out with habitat for humanity, health clinics, food drives, etc. I like to think "helping" is an American thing and has little to do with religion. Many churches will certainly help you, but there are some that don't really help so much. Also, I can't tell you how many Iraqis have done their best to help me while trying to get my husband here. They give me the best advice they can, I have been given free food, some of the women (including the Iraqi woman I mentioned before) has been a shoulder to cry on when I got frustrated with waiting for my husband. I believe there is good everywhere if you just look for it. Yet sometimes we do have to face the bad as that was the case in my original post for this thread. It isn't going to turn me against all the other arabs out there. I think we have to judge everyone on an individual basis and only was we are well informed.

You know I've learned to love Iraqis!!!! The first Muslim I ever talked to who made what I consideree to be real dawah-meaning not forced and he was just being himself and he did not even discuss Islam with me at all. He was just naturally a nice guy and he treated me ewll and I thougth to myself "He is not like the Muslims on tv". Of course the more I got into Islam and got around them all, I learned there really are Muslims like on tv:) But this guy he was so nice. We talked at the beginning of the Iraq war online as he was still in baghdad. But then he came up missing for 7 months. Even though there was no love thing or anything like that going on between us, I learned to care about someone who was not from my culture...in a platonical way of course. I was relieved to know he resurfaced in another country!!!

Did your husband ever have to wrok in a "danger znoe"? Or how do people deal with it? Like you have to go to work, but then if you go to work, you risk being shot. And those people are persistent when they really wanna shoot someone! I need to talk to more women in war zones actually cuz I have to get used that that idea of being shot:(

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-09 00:41:00

QUOTE (palilover @ Oct 8 2008, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hm...I dont know why but I wanna own an internet cafe, lol Of course most people in the US have computers here in America so no internet cafes needed here. But in middle east, internet cafe is big and even in Europe it is. But I do want to at least try to live in middle east someday, but it all depends on where. So for now I'll just stick to being a techie phone slave:(

lol, I think it would be neat to have an internet cafe too though I've thought of putting a coffee shop and bookstore with it.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-08 23:11:00

QUOTE (Y_habibitk @ Oct 8 2008, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lisa

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-08 23:07:00

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Oct 8 2008, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (ta me go hiontach @ Oct 7 2008, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Oct 7 2008, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (ginny20 @ Oct 7 2008, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, I think I posted this incorrectly. I was referring to the comments from yesterday, namely: "You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now", "Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.", and "their lack of personailty, independence, their pettiness and materialism and lack of ANY KIND OF INTELLECTUAL capacity, we would all have a field day. I told my mom the only time I ever get along with my husband is if I talk to him like hes either 3 or mentally disabled. If I ever spoke with any kind of normal authoratative tone in my voice like American men, some of these guys get disturbed. I found alot of these women to be whiney, self centered, immature, selfish, materialistic and gossipy," which I found personally very offensive.

I'm sorry to change the tone, but I think this kind of language is very dangerous in any context for the reasons I stated above. Again, I think if this were directed towards other racial/ethnic groups people would be more horrified, but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't lived in the US for several years.

Only the poster of that could explain what she meant, but I suspect it was more or less meant to be a sarcastic comment.

To Uno, thank you for understanding the intent of my amusement.

nonsense. you know full well the long established history she has of bashing arabs, especially women. it goes way, way back.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but when it comes to flaming threads I pretty much stay out when it comes to VJ.

But keep in mind, sometimes people just choose to keep their mouths shut when the read something offensive. People have their minds set on what is and isn't appropriate to say. I don't think that what I say here is going to change someones mind about how they feel.

A good example would be the thread for Henia. I felt what you said to Henia was totally inappropriate, although you were just trying to help. I didn't voice my opinion on that particular thread for the reason that Henia is going through enough, and shouldn't have to deal with yet another flame war in the midst of what she is going through. I may be wrong, but I suspect that there were others here on VJ that thought you comment was offensive. I don't think my opinion would have changed that you feel it was totally appropriate. Am I wrong? If I spoke up would it made you think twice about how you worded it? If I am wrong I will certainly apologize.

I have to agree with you on that one. I let some things go with some people if I know they are going through a lot. No point in making them feel worse. Could just be they are stressed out and not thinking properly. It is better to correct someone gently or ask them to clarify than all out attack them before knowing what they meant.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-08 07:58:00

QUOTE (ginny20 @ Oct 7 2008, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree when you look at these words, it is stereotyping and is no better than what the Syrian woman said to me. It is good to point this out so everyone can remember to see both sides. You can never group all people into the above mentioned description. Are there people in the middle east like this? Yes, there are, but certainly not all or most of them. My sister in law is a doctor and works hard in her profession. She certainly doesn't sit on her butt. My mother in law was a teacher full time and managed to raise 7 children while working in this career. I have nothing but respect for her. There are some hard working middle eastern women and some that just stay at home. Every case is different.

There are women in this country that are like the Syrian woman described in my original post and I tried to tell her she cannot say ALL American women are like this. Let us not group all arabs into one category with a derogatory description. Its like the pot calling the kettle black. Sometimes we don't realize what we are saying is disrespectful, but once it is pointed out to you, the right thing to do is admit it, apologize and avoid doing it again. I think that is all we can ask for. None of use are perfect. At some point we will offend someone, but there is a way to be mature about how we handle it.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-07 17:25:00

QUOTE (Completely @ Oct 6 2008, 02:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think there are different ways of raising a child.. I am not from Arab culture but I hope it is okay for the OP if I answered her post. I personally took care of my baby in the night time.. There were times, my son got fussy but I do not let him cry too much as the gas and bloated stomach will make him more miserable.. The baby on a certain age will not cry in the middle of the night if there is no problem.. I usually put him to swing with lullabies song or rub his stomach with oil to make his stomach feel better. But there are times, he just cry and I let him for 5 mins, if he did not stop, and fall back to sleep I go pick him up and check what is the problem..

But the time is completely different now.. My son is 2 years old now, some days he has a hard time sleeping, and cry for no reason.. We let him cry, he gets tired and fall back to sleep.. Babies are different in their unique way, so we can not judge a mother on how they take care of their babies no matter country she came from.

I meant to respond to you as well and got lost in all my responses. Thankyou for putting in your thoughts. There is absolutely no problem with you commenting here regardless of your nationality. Sometimes it is good to get a diverse perspective.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 22:38:00

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Oct 6 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven't had an opportunity to read this entire thread, so please excuse me if I repeat what has been said.

This woman first insulted your family, then she insulted you, as well as all Americans. The bottom line is that she is a bully. No one has spoken to her that way before? Perhaps because people are afraid to stand up to her. Then she boo hoo's to another woman about you? Drama queen.

You did nothing wrong, she did. I don't care what their traditions say, she is in America now and she is the one that owes you the apology. I doubt you will get it however.

Considering you are in the workplace you do need to work on being civil to each other. You don't owe any more than that. My suggestion is that you act civil, but not over friendly. If she starts again just turn your back and walk away. You don't need to defend yourself to this bitter woman.

One other note. Her daughter(?) is only 5? Oh boy, she has a lot of years to go through before she can claim any expertise in the field of parenting. Just wait until this girl turns oh around 12. Let's just see how much of an expert she is as she loses all control over her child.

Thanks for your words, glad that I am not the only one to feel that way when hearing someone say things like that woman did. I agree that I must be civil to her and so far it is working. I don't think we will be able to talk on a normal level again though.

I do look forward to her daughter becoming older. As it is this woman doesn't dress or act like a conservative muslim (low cut shirts, sleeveless shirts, didn't fast for most of Ramadan), but when she goes home to Syria the hijab and conservative clothes magically reappear. What kind of example does that show to her kids?

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 21:31:00

QUOTE (prince+angel @ Oct 6 2008, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOW - when I first read this I was speechless. Cant believe this happened in work environment. Women have enough to deal with on a good day and way too much to get through on a regular day then to have to listen to the under informed and ignorant.

I am sorry you lost your cool but I think we've all had a moment or two when we have just had enough. I wont get into the cultural differences of raising children but I can say it doesn't matter what race, religion, nationality, color, culture or financial back ground you come from - there is good & bad in ALL when it comes to raising children. Just know your doing (or will do) your best with yours in your situation & keep it moving.

BTW, I give you much credit for trying to reason with someone who sounds sooo unreasonable.

I agree that you have to look at each parent as an individual and not judge any group of people as a whole. Just because a method doesn't seem good to one person doesn't mean it isn't good (so long as it isn't really harmful). Thanks for your input. I'm sorry I lost my cool, but sometimes people need to know that their words can bother people. I tried and tried to give her an out, I said over and over "some women, not all" and the woman wouldn't take that, she just kept repeating "no, it is the American way" and that I wouldn't know because I am not a mother (as if all my life in America I was blind).

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 21:20:00

QUOTE (nu7015 @ Oct 6 2008, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Oct 6 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (nu7015 @ Oct 6 2008, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How long has this Syrian lady lived here and how many mothers has she witnessed leaving their babies crying???

My daughter screamed and cried 24/7 for the first 7 months of her life, waking up 5-7 times a night until I finally let her cry in her crib and then she finally began sleeping most of the night. She was always held, I stayed home with her for the first 6 months and she was given all the attention in the world. I searched online, bought books, took her to Dr.'s, breastfed, gave formula, switched formulas umpteem times. Some babies are fussier than others.

I still had to do everyday things and so I had to bring my screaming baby with me. People in stores and everywhere I went looked at me as though I was torturing her. We flew several places and went entire flights with her screaming and through airports with her screaming bloody murder. So I suppose if the Syrian lady had witnessed me or someone else with a screaming baby like mine (God help them), then I suppose that would make her think badly about mothers here. However, it is rare when I've seen other babies like that when I am out and about.

I don't feel that you need to apologize. I'm sure you won't be the last American that she will encounter with that reaction if she keeps insulting Americans.

Crying 24/7 sounds like Colic. The poor babies that go through this appear to be in pain. And the poor parents. Not easy at all!

Oh Kat, I just read your posts. OMG you crack me up!!

Colic is what the doctors said too. But when it went past the typical 3 month mark, they ruled out colic. Believe me, I was counting on it ending after 3 months!!!!!!!

From my experience, and I've been to Morocco 5 times and there a total of about 4 months, I don't really like how the children are treated there. The women were always busy cleaning or cooking or socializing and the kids seemed to be left to fend for themselves. I always felt the urge to go comfort the kids and give them attention. They were always running around wild but they learned that they could come and sit with me quietly and we would communicate in our own little ways. The women would always look at me weird; I don't know if it is because they thought I was being bothered by their kids or that they thought I was being inappropriate with their kids.

I know that when I fly Royal Air Maroc, waiting in JFK for my flight includes having a slew of Moroccan kids chasing each other around all of us waiting. I feel that I am in "Little Morocco" when at JFK waiting for a RAM flight and preparing myself for the 21 nieces and nephews I will be around in a short while.

The Syrian woman has been living in the United States for about three years though she has been married to her American husband for about 6 years or so. He converted to Islam so they could marry. Not sure what experience she has had that makes her think all American women are such bad mothers. I think part of it is that her mother in law totally ignores her and doesn't stay in good contact and didn't help her to adjusting here. I can understand being upset about that, but doesn't mean you need to resent all American women for it.

I'm so sorry about you dealing with your own daughter. I know my parents said they went crazy just from me screaming and crying for two weeks non-stop after I was born. Lucky for them it was before all the health standards got so tough and my parents asked the doctor to prescribe me sleeping medicine (which worked). I guess they kept giving it to me until I was somewhere between 8 months and a year. My granma complained about that and saying it was wrong. All I know is most of the medicines that are supposed to make you drowsy or sleepy don't work on me, lol. In fact, i have a high tolerance to pain medication other people swear works so well and could not be put under when I had my wisdom teeth pulled. Maybe my parents should have just let me cry.

Anyway, no one can expect a parent to hold a baby non-stop if it never stops crying which is why I even mentioned you gotta step out and take a break. This woman didn't have babies like that so it is easy for her to criticize.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 21:16:00

QUOTE (bridget @ Oct 6 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My husband held his tongue for the first fivemonths but recently he's started to politely request that I demand certain things of my girls. I know your OP was re: babies though. When my girls were babies I did have them "cry it out" for a while when nothing else was wrong and I knew they were just looking for attention but more often than not I brought them in the bed with me and those nights were the ones that I got the most peaceful sleep ever!

Anyway his gripe is that they don't have any responsibility around the house. NOt sure if this is American though I tend to think it's moreso related to being divorced for ten years but I don't demand that they do chores. I never had to, though we had a housekeeper that came everyday growing up. The only thing I demand of them is to do their homework and bring home good grades. Well that was all well and good when it was just me but now that he's doing some of the share of the cleaning he thinks they should step up to the plate. Babysteps are in place to slowly ease them into things and so far so good. I'm very glad that a) he didn't say anything in the beginning and knew enough not to and that

he feels confident enough now in his stepdad position to say something, even though it was directly to me and not to the girls.

You know that is interesting as I once brought up to my husband about chores for kids. I am more for it because I had it growing up and it teaches kids the skills they need to handle their own homes. Anyway, I told my husband how if me and my brother did all our chores then we would get an allowance each week. My husband totally disagreed with this. He said kids should just do the chores and if they need something, then we can buy it for them or give them some money. The thing is I prefer to tie in the money directly to the work so they understand the concept of working to earn money. I guess it is something we will have to work out later when the time comes.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 12:43:00

Ganja girl, it doesn't suprise me about your grandmother, I think women especially have a hard time adapting to a new culture and way of life once they reach a certain age. I can deal with older people criticising as they get rather set in their ways and like to ramble about how it was "back home" or when they were young. The Syrian woman I speak of is like 33 years old though, so I expect her to be more open and tolerant. You are also right that in reality "most" kids are spoiled here in the US. Some people just fail to see that when they want to criticize one practice that some parents do. Also, that was sweet of you to help that older woman in the airport. I am always happy to help people as well. I never understood why people in the ME can't be more helpful to foreigners without asking for money. If they are truly religious then they should know it isn't right to ask for money.

Donna, I think you are right that at some point many immigrants do change their way of thinking. The problem is waiting until that magical time comes so we don't have to hear the badmouthing anymore.

Hz, thanks for your words and support. Part of me wanted to feel bad for blowing up, but another part feels this woman needed to know that such rude criticism would not be tolerated. I can deal with her not agreeing to what "some" Americans do, but to label all Americans, I can't tolerate that and I will not.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 12:32:00

Thanks everyone for all your responses. I really appreciated it.

Aymsgirl, yes I think she was talking about the crib situation of letting the baby cry itself to sleep. Not that it is her business how people choose to raise their children or judge them for it.

jessNgeorges, I have seen the children begging on the streets in the ME as well. Obviously the woman forgets all about that. In fact, I noticed in Syria kids were running around by themselves after dark. That cannot be safe.

Caybee, I had thought about asking her how she would feel if I insulted all Syrians in the same way. I don't think she has thought about how that would feel. Much easier to sit insulting American ways without bothering to understand them.

Ginny20, you have some really interesting observations in regards to disciplining children. I think many of us don't think to look at it from the perspectives you mentioned. Thankyou for sharing!

Uno, I did try to point out to this woman that Pentecostals call for the Holy Spirit (which is a good spirit) and the spirit is even mentioned in the Quran. Unfortunately the woman literally refused to listen and just kept calling it evil. Also, thanks for your input about the "crying down" and "controlled crying" techniques.

Hanging in there, you know one of the first things my husband praised Americans about was our giving nature. He said he never saw another country whose people are so ready and willing to give to others. Also, I agree that women here often have to work and that makes them handle children differently as we don't usually have the whole day at home.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 12:22:00

QUOTE (~~~water~~~ @ Oct 6 2008, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wow ! what a hard situation , I understand exactly where you are coming from, it just sounds like this woman is kinda simple minded and only can see the world through her own small lens. I think when you see her again just be honest you felt like the way she was talking really disrespectfully of your people and you don't need to talk anymore about issues of culture or religion and you wish to just move forward/ I know its so hard when people are so arrogant!! Hope it works out ok

just agree to disagree a person like this will never see shes in the wrong

Thanks, I appreciate your input. So far we have just graduated to the most simple of conversations, like saying hello and thats it, lol.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 00:50:00

QUOTE (Nawal @ Oct 6 2008, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree with you and most likely would have blown up at her too. I think its hysterical how someone can say these things and have had hardly any contact w/ an American family (other than the one their son/daughter married into) and then they pass judgment. Perhaps she watched it in a movie...typically any ignorant comment I have been confronted w/ by others not raised here has come from their watching movies, etc.

I have NEVER let our babies cry and wasn't raised this way by my family either. I also babysat as you did and the instructions I received from the family I worked for was to not let their son cry. The funny thing is what I have viewed overseas is the opposite of what she has said. I have seen children running around in the streets much younger than I'd care to admit without parent supervision.

IMHO, I think Americans spoil their children too much and we over do it with the picking them up, over feeding them, over stimulating, etc. The actual opposite of what she claimed was the American way.

You are exactly right as well. My husband told me I was right and just said to avoid the woman for awhile. He also said there was a family accross the street from him when he still lived in Baghdad who would let their young son roam the streets all day long and even after it got dark. My husband being the caring man he is tried to return the kid to the house. Well, the family took the kid back in and my husband found him on the street not even an hour later. There are good and bad parents everywhere. I am sure some people may not run the moment a baby cries, or if the baby has been crying for hours they may step out just to calm down or take a break, but few people actually totally ignore their crying children.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 00:46:00

QUOTE (martiniolive @ Oct 6 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well if she was talking about americans..she was talking about herself too cuz she is living in america. Unless she means "native" americans

. Why do so many people hate on penticostals? Is it like what alot of people do against muslim's and other religons? Sounds like she was blowing off pent up emotions/anger and you were there so became the victim of it. I watched my son and daughter fighting once where, my daughter was PMSing and she went on a tangent about like 5 things in a row while my son just stood there in shock at the attack....when she said all she could she waited for his retaliation and he just said "wow" and no one knew what to say LOL it pretty much said everything...he did not agree and he did not defend, he just said "wow"

Oh no, you know what topped it all off? The Iraqi woman told me that since the Syrian woman is older than me (by like maybe 5 or 6 years) that it is my duty to apologize to her. She said in middle eastern culture the younger person always apologizes to the older one. I said, well guess what? This is America and the person who is wrong is the one who should apologize. They seriously didn't see what the problem was. They just said basically that all American women are bad mothers and I'm supposed to not get upset?

BTW, she doesn't have citizenship yet, but I did think about the fact her little daughter is an American now. She should think about that!

No idea why they trash on Pentacostals. I don't necessarily agree with the practices, but it is harmless and has the best of intentions. If you don't like someone trashing your religion then you shouldn't trash on others, you are totally right.

Edited by S and S, 06 October 2008 - 12:43 AM.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-06 00:40:00

Okay, there is this Syrian woman at work who I had an argument with a little while back. There is still tension between us about this and I wanted everyone's opinion since we have American and arab women here who can contribute and tell me if I overreacted.

First, I was already annoyed at this woman because I mentioned my mother's family is Pentecostal. Now, I am not, but I respect the fact my mother's family is entitled to their beliefs. My mother was never really into it and usually we went to a Babtist church, lol. Anyway, this woman tells me that the Pentacostal religion is evil and against God, and goes on and on about how horrible it is. I am thinking to myself that she complains how people don't keep an open mind about Islam and then she insults my family's religion? I try to make her see reason and that my mother's family does not intend evil or anything bad, it is just their beliefs, but this woman refuses to hear anything I say. I let it go as I don't want to argue about it further.

Then she starts in on how she has seen American women ignore their babies when they are crying for hours at night. She goes on and on about how horrible these mothers are for doing that and how could they just ignore their babies and shut them up in rooms. I mean she is really insulting women who do this and making them sound horrible. I don't say anything yet, but then she states this is "The American Way". I say no, this is not, some women do this, but certainly not all. I think I've known one woman my whole life who did this. Yet this woman keeps telling me how it is done by all Americans. I tell her no, that my family and friends never did that. They would never think to leave a baby crying for hours on end. So this woman tells me my family must be the only ones. I couldn't believe it. I tried and tried to get her to just admit this is some women and not all. Remember she said how awful women are for doing this so I am now getting extremely angry because this means she just insulted every American woman and called them bad mothers. So I start arguing with her and then she is rude and points out I don't have children so I can't say anything. This coming from a woman that knows how badly I want to have a baby. She says I can't know about raising children because I don't have any. That I can't know what women in this country do? I've been here for 28 years, I think I know more than she does about how women handle their babies in this country. I was a live-in babysitter for two summers as a teenager and had plenty of opportunities to see how these families handled their babies. Not to mention seeing how my family took care of theirs.

Finally I blow up on her and tell her how dare she insult all Americans this way. I tell her I can't listen to her anymore and that her words make me sick. I tell her she knows nothing about American mothers and has no right to say such disrespectful things. Now keep in mind I am yelling at her to her face. I stomped out of the room and refused to answer her calling my name. I knew if I turned around I would have hit her. I was told later she started crying and wailing about how rude I was to her and that no one ever talked to her like that before. I don't care. You don't insult all American women on purpose in front of an American woman and think you can get away with it. There was an Iraqi woman in the room who talked to me later and tried to say this woman didn't mean it that way, but I don't see what other way she could have meant it.

Anyway, feedback would be greatly appreciated. I honestly don't know how to deal with this woman when I see her now.

S and S

Female

Iraq

2008-10-05 23:46:00