ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
Middle East and North Africapart of my travel....
$80K a year plus overtime where I grew up would put you in the upper-middle middle class. Ph.D.'s don't generally make you rich.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-07 12:23:00
Middle East and North Africapart of my travel....
Oh, and my interview was done by an ex-Secret Service agent. Very nice guy, and it was generally just a lot of fun, but it did feel like a mindgame. He was supposed to interview me at 4pm, after I got home from work. He showed up at my house at 3pm ('I'm just a little early') and when I arrived, not only had been having lemonade and cookies with my parents, but knew pretty much every last detail about me, before I even had a chance to say hello.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-07 12:15:00
Middle East and North Africapart of my travel....
Somewhat, but if it works like my friend's job, 'overtime' is very easy to accrue. His base in DC was $50K, but with the overtime, he pulled in half again as much.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-07 12:10:00
Middle East and North Africapart of my travel....
A high school friend of mine works for Homeland Security, and as part of the background check, they interviewed me as a character witness. They weren't rude or mean, but they definitely would try to throw me off-balance (by insinuating that my friend's mother, for example, was a ####### with a crack problem, just by slipping it in). They gauge whether you're a threat or being honest not so much by what you say, but by how you react to outrageous treatment.

I'm really sorry that happened. Just keep in mind that they can't do much... what are they gonna do, deport you back to the U.S.?
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-07 09:29:00
Middle East and North AfricaQuestion about Morocco
New Englanders are uptight and frigid. ;)

The NYC one makes me laugh. New Yorkers aren't rude, in my experience, just aloof and walking quickly. They'd help you if you needed it, but otherwise, they're just brusque and brisk.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-07 14:33:00
Middle East and North AfricaCulture VS Islam
Makes sense to me. See, first the women are not veiled! So we can see that they are.... hot.... and that makes the temperature go up! And then, the men (wee animals they are) see the women.... and they get hot!!!

Soon, we're melting polar ice caps everywhere. ;)
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-09 21:17:00
Middle East and North AfricaCulture VS Islam

That Christmas is a secular holiday makes not a lick of sense to me. If I was Christian, I would be highly insulted by that. Taking my savior and making his Holy Day like any other party holiday is a blasphemy, imo. But, then, I've never been Christian.


The hullabaloo over Christmas is interesting, especially considering that the "holiest" day in Christianity is actually Easter, rather than Christmas. And we all know how that's celebrated.... again, the old pagan traditions coming to the forefront.

Now I want a chocolate bunny.


Haha, chocolate bunnies. In response to szsz, I suppose Christians could go around getting all offended at the fact that other people choose to give each other gifts on December 25, but what's really the point? It's a holiday that has two manifestations.

With the 'Christianity stole the pagan holidays', well, sort of. But most cultures have some sort of solstice celebrations, spring celebrations, harvest festivals. So is it an evil trick to get the pagans to abandon their religion, or is it 'if you're partying anyway, might as well make it about the right God'? I'm inclined to the latter, only because that's generally just how missionary-based religions get interpreted by local cultures.

There's a great story in Salman Rushdie's Midnight's Children about an Indian Catholic convert who asks her priest what Jesus looked like, and after some thought, he answers 'Jesus was blue.' Why? Because Gods (Krishna in particular, I think) are often depicted as blue in Hindu paintings. (The rest of the story has her laughing at the priest, 'What kind of a man is blue!')

For instance, Easter (Eostere) is the celebration of the rebirth of the Sun (Son?).


You know, this is one of those stories that makes a lot of sense until you realize than the parallel really only works in English with 'Sun' and 'son' having the same sound. Maybe German if you mispronounce it. (It doesn't work so well in Irish Gaelic, for one.) Adapting a local holiday, that I can believe. Tricking thousands of pagans into accidentally believing in the resurrection because two words in modern English sound the same, not so much. (Leaving aside the problems of determining what the pagans believed when the only people who wrote down what they did were the conquering Romans.)

In any case, most people in the United States who celebrate Christmas secularly aren't doing so because it's some ancient pagan custom. They're doing it because it's part of secular American culture.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-08 09:59:00
Middle East and North AfricaCulture VS Islam

ooooo :dance: ooooo :dance: ooooo :dance: I thought of another one :dance:
We are Muslims in my home but we also do a Christmas tree and exchange gifts. One entering my home might think that Muslims celebrate Christmas the same way Christians do.... but that's not it at all... I like the traditions of having a Christmas tree and exchanging gifts......and as you all know...not Islamically related at all...


Exactly! I wouldn't be surprised to learn if some things Americans associate with Islam (foods, marriage customs, beliefs about women, whatever) were really artifacts of the local culture all mixed up with it.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-08 00:55:00
Middle East and North AfricaCulture VS Islam
Better or worse how? In the U.S., Christmas is also a secular holiday, so it would be possible to celebrate it in that context.

The spaghetti straps and hijab thing doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not Muslim, and I could see someone interpreting the requirement differently or in the context of American culture. (E.g., if the requirement is construed as 'be more modest than the culture around you.')
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-08 00:51:00
Middle East and North AfricaCulture VS Islam
If we don't mind some real examples, here's a Catholic one:

One of my dear friends from college is Filipino-American, and at his wedding (to another Catholic friend), they incorporated some Filipino traditions: wrapping silk cords around the couple, him giving her coins as a sign that he promises to support her, and her formally accepting them. To an outsider, perhaps, who'd never been to a Catholic wedding, it might look like 'Catholicism requires the groom to give the bride coins, and ties them together to ensure he does so.' And if someone's only exposure to Catholicism was through a boyfriend who said 'All marriages I've ever been to have this coin exchange', she might think it was part of the tradition.

Another one: Feast of the Seven Fishes, which is an Italian feast on Christmas Eve where everyone abstains from meat (and hence has lots of tasty seafood.)

More mundane: dressing up in red and green velvet Christmas dresses, or eating pork and sauerkraut at New Years, or getting candy on Easter, or decorating Ukrainian Easter Eggs. Not part of the religion per se, but part of the religious practice as understood by a culture. :)
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-08 00:42:00
Middle East and North AfricaCulture VS Islam

Can anyone give specific examples of how in a Muslim community religion and culture are not seperate?


What do you mean? Surely the religion is part of the culture, and surely Muslim culture varies worldwide.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-08 00:02:00
Middle East and North AfricaCulture VS Islam
I'd imagine that local marriage customs or celebrations in particular are one areas where the line between religious and cultural gets blurred.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-07 23:46:00
Middle East and North Africaam getting married soon, fast answer if possible
Some people have not married within 90 days (or failed to file within 90 days) after entering on the K-1, but marrried later and successfully adjusted. Still, not advisable, though, as if you do not marry within the 90 days you will be out of status.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-10 01:01:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuslims & Christmas
szsz, I'm really sorry your boss is being a jackass. A holiday party is one thing; a holiday party with communal prayer is in poor taste when there's an employer-employee relationship.

I do think that Christmas is also a secular holiday in the U.S. It's hard to deny, as too much of American retail, customs, etc, is influenced by it. And it's not secular just to get at Muslims. It's secular because there are so many adults raised Christian who no longer believe, but still identify with the traditions.

But that's neither here nor there, as if you don't want to celebrate a holiday, don't celebrate it, and it's dumb of your boss to expect a prayer service.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-16 23:44:00
Middle East and North AfricaIt is time
Congrats!
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-15 19:27:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuslims and pork
I'm far too tired to find the verse, but there's the few quoted from Matthew above (attributed to Christ), and somewhere, either in Acts, or in a letter (the letter's part of the Bible, by the way), one of the saints (Peter) has a vision where God tells him to eat all of these forbidden foods, and he says 'But it's unclean', and God says, 'What you callin' unclean, eat up!'

So it's intended as an explicit reversal, and it's certainly not a rationalization. (That's not exactly the most neutral way to put it, by the way...like saying someone rationalizes not wearing a veil 'cause they like jeans.) I mean, bacon's tasty and all, but the it's not like people had to stretch to get 'eat the animals' out of 'um, you can eat the animals now.' There's various interpretations, suggesting God meant it metaphorically (to mean 'don't differentiate between Jew and Gentile), but it's not a reach to interpret Acts 10 literally.

Christianity is in a different position with regards to interpretation in that while we hold that the Bible is the word of God, it's not always certain whether that word is metaphorical or literal. It's not grouped by category as Islam is (although I understand there's some debate about that, too.)
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-17 00:41:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuslims and pork
Yeah, it's not the case, from the Christian perspective at least, that they were a 'Jewish sect that decided to ignore the dietary laws'; God overruled them as mybackpages quoted. There's a later one in the letter to the Romans. It didn't have a whit to do with refrigeration, as this would have been around 50 A.D.

The anthropological explanation I heard about the ban on certain foods wasn't health-related, as while pigs may be dirty, differentiating between camels and beef, or grasshoppers and ants, all of it in a time of no refrigeration (if it was just that pigs are big and will spoil, why not ban cows?). It was cultural. Nearby tribes of the Israelites ate certain foods and dedicated them to their gods, and so God's command to the Israelites was a command to maintain their own identity (and not merge with other tribes.)

The anthropological explanation for Christianity lifting the ban has to do with its evangelical component. Christianity soon spreads outside the Jews to the Romans and other peoples, none of whom were Jewish or followed the dietary laws. And so there's a power struggle: do you have to convert to Judaism in order to follow Christ? The answer's no, and rejecting the dietary laws is part of that.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-16 23:55:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuslims and pork
Islam has such a rich philosophical tradition that it's hard to believe that it could ever be characterized as a faith where you do what God says unquestioningly.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-15 23:10:00
Middle East and North AfricaAds hope to dispel fears of Muslims and Arabs
I think this bus campaign is a great quirky little idea. Quite a lot of Americans know next to nothing about Arabic and expect that every Muslim secretly has Osama bin Laden's phone number in his cell. You know, so when al-Qaeda plans something, they can call and say 'Osama, your mother would NOT like this jihad you've got going on and she wants to know if you're coming home for your father's birthday.' Just like I have all the phone numbers of the molesting priests. ('Father Mulcahy, no!')

I'm not sure how successful it will be, but for every person who goes OMG OSAMA IS POSTING SECRET MESSAGES IN THAT WEIRD LOOPY LANGUAGE and learns it means 'I'm a little teapot' will at least have to think a little.

Internment has been discussed by rightwing radical groups for all Muslims, so the comparison with Japanese-Americans is apt. Especially given the detentions which generally seem to result in being held for three or four years and released with no charges.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-20 19:57:00
Middle East and North AfricaKeith Ellison & the Quran Controvery
Prager's out of his damn mind. There is explicitly no religious test required to serve in public office in the United States. None. Nada. We have a whole bill of rights about it and everything.

There have also been Presidents (I want to say Ford for some reason) in the past who have declined to be sworn in on a Bible. And suggesting that someone should swear on the Bible when he doesn't hold it as an authority is just ludicrous.

Ellison should be able to swear in on whatever he wants. If that's the dictionary, more power to him.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-06 20:51:00
Middle East and North Africahezbollah

Ok, so, different things have been said.....Why can't Hezbollah be considered a viable political group in Lebanon if it gets funding from Iran and Syria?

Israel gets most of it's $$/military infrastructure from the US, so is Israel not a viable sovereign government?



1) Hezbollah is a political party, but they also act like their own paramilitary group. It's not just the belligerence that's the problem; it's that their fighters aren't the recognized army of Lebanon, but they go and fire rockets anyway. It would be like if the Democrats back in 2004 had lost the election, formed an army, and invaded Canada with French funding. So it's not quite the same as giving aid to Israel (or Egypt, or Morocco); whoever wins the Israeli election, we know the loser won't start another army.

2) Syria and Iran aren't funding the entire Lebanese government, just the faction sympathetic to them. And then it's a question of loyalties. Syria's been accused lately of assasinating a Lebanese minister, and the two countries don't exactly have a peaceful history, so it would be like England funding a faction in the U.S. in 1812.

3) I don't think it's a Muslim problem, or Muslim prejudice, exactly, because the closest historical parallel that leaps to mind is Sinn Fein and the IRA. When the two were tied closely together, Sinn Fein wasn't taken seriously as a party. When they distanced themselves from the violence, they were. Same thing here.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-04 22:47:00
Middle East and North AfricaWhat would you do

Look, people don't usually ask such a question for no reason. It's a sensitive subject you have to admit. So my mistake if I don't get why the question is here.



Do you think I am upset because my husband won't work? He legally cannot work right now but once he gets his EAD he'll be back at it. Thank you for your concern.

My question is asking those who have their fiances/husbands coming what they would do if their husband wouldn't work. I know it has happened to some so I think my question is a legitimate one.


Sara, I didn't know if you were upset or not. I thought your question had to be out there for a reason though. Either you are upset or you know it has happened to others.

Since you say you're not upset, then it has to be that it's happened to others. In which case I think it's up to them to post the question IF they want to know what other people would do.

Soooooo....that being said.....my only 'issue' would be the 'legitimacy' (as you put it) of your question.


I don't really understand why out of all the threads on this forum you came after me about legitimacy issues with the topic I started. I didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to ask a hypothetical question to the members in thie forum. I am truly sorry to everyone for asking something that doesn't pertain to myself or my husband.


I dont' think you have anything to apologize for. If all of us stuck to posting to topics that only had a personal impact on us, this site wouldnt' be as robust as it is.


No you don't have to apologize Sara. You just need to ask yourself why you are posing the question.


Maybe 'cause she's interested in the answer? It hardly implies she's worried about it personally, unless all the posts in off-topic about news items in Iraq mean the people posting it are s3kritly Iraqi.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-21 10:52:00
Middle East and North AfricaWhat would you do
Mm, good point. Still, I think C. would be willing to work at a job that he wasn't suited for if we were really hurting for money. I don't really see it as a flaw that he has preferences, because they're pretty reasonable. He knows he'll have to start over.

But I'm not going to be demanding that he find anything the day he gets his EAD. We're good, budget-wise, for about a year if he doesn't work at all, so if he wants to give it a few weeks to see if he lands something in his line of work, I'm not going to be thinking he's a poor provider.

Come to think of it, that might be driving some of my feelings on this, too; I'm not really thinking of him as a provider at all. Not really much for 'the man's job is to provide' line of thought; been single too long, I guess. :)
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-15 19:36:00
Middle East and North AfricaWhat would you do

I find this response very interesting because it seems very reasonable to me. However, I feel like if your man was from MENA, people would react differently to it. What I mean is, if someone married to an MENA man mentioned here that "I'm not sure I'd want him working at any old minimum wage job so he could say he was employed", people would be thinking - hmmmm, that must mean that her husband doesn't want to work ---> green card fraud!

Not picking on you, Caladan. As I said, your response makes complete sense. I just think it would be read differently if you were in a relationship with an MENA man.

Any thoughts?


Hmm. This is interesting. I think one of the reasons I'm not willing to have him settle too quickly is the expectation that there won't be an overwhelming amount of culture shock or new mores to get used to. His skills transfer well, and of course as a Canadian there's no language barrier, and he's not going to have to face major prejudices. So while he might struggle for a while to find a job, I don't think it's insurmountable. And I know he's *willing* to work, and he'll likely be so bored by the time the EAD comes up that he'll jump at anything that gets him out of the house.

I'm not sure if it would trigger worries about green card fraud if a man didn't want to work. Isn't the typical case of fraud more that the person wants to come to the U.S., make money, and then jet?
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-15 19:21:00
Middle East and North AfricaWhat would you do
Not ME/NA, but this has been on my mind a lot. C's in carpentry, and shouldn't have a problem finding a good job as construction is booming around here. But if something didn't pan out quickly, I'm not sure I'd want him working at any old minimum wage job so he could say he was employed. The money would help, and maybe I'll feel differently next summer, but we're deliberately squirreling away every spare penny we have now so we have enough of a cushion so he doesn't feel like he has to rush off to McDonald's or something.

C. will want to be a good provider, but he's also got a healthy enough ego that if he's my lil' houseboy for a few months, he won't feel like less of a man.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-14 23:36:00
Middle East and North AfricaWednesday!
Why should they be up on bird flu? While it's a potentially very large threat, it isn't yet here at all, and while you were in another country where there's been a few cases, your nurse hadn't been there. (Plus, it presents as any other influenza, nasty.) She probably can't identify the symptoms of leprosy, either.

You probably just have an airplane cold, doodle. I get them nearly every time I have a long flight.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-10 12:31:00
Middle East and North AfricaOwnership
To me, at least, the difference between 'my husband' or 'my wife' or 'my friend', and 'my Moroccan/Canadian' or 'my Filipina' is that in some contexts (none of the ones common to women on VJ, really), it sounds like you're more interested in the person's heritage than them. (cf., 'how did you keep your Columbian wife from changing?' 'i hope you like your Russian bride as much as I like mine!')

It's different, I think with women (since there's no mail-order hubby phenomenon), and it doesn't quite register the same way as with some of the guys.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-13 13:21:00
Middle East and North AfricaOwnership
My friends refer to C. jokingly as the 'the Canuck' or 'your lumberjack', and I sometimes tell him he's my big Canadian bear, but I don't think I'd say 'my Canadian and I.'

I'd feel like I was saying 'my iPod', or 'this toaster oven is returnable on Amazon.'
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-13 00:07:00
Middle East and North Africafamily understanding
It may just be parents. My dad's reaction to my engagement was to say congratulations, but nearly every conversation we've had since then has been 'how's the dissertation?' He doesn't ask about my fiancé, he seems to have a hard time accepting that we're serious, let alone engaged, and he's mentioned to my sister than he thinks my fiancé is only interested in me for sex.

This is without a cultural difference. This is HAVING MET HIM ONCE for Thanksgiving. This is with ten visits before filing. This is with it being friggin' Canada. Parents are weird.

abdounjen, it might help to sit your parents down and explain that a) you're engaged, and that B) you really want them to be part of this for you. And then it might help, if you can't get them to Morocco, to get them to talk to him online. If your mother talked to him periodically, she might relax.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-14 00:34:00
Middle East and North AfricaIssues you may need to discuss with your MENA SO
All I can think is 'Desperate Housewives: Amman'..... with a Gabi-style character refusing to clean 'cause that's not in the contract. :)
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-11 22:27:00
Middle East and North AfricaIssues you may need to discuss with your MENA SO

LOL! I come on VJ after months of being away and when I click on this thread the first thing I see is #######! I think the only thing Amr & I could have talked more about is the U.S dollar and how far is does not go. He's a spender and once we were back in the states he had to realize you just don't go buy things just because. Also we had never talked about what would happen if he dies. He wants to be buried like they do in Egypt {no embalming} and I just don't think that's possible here is it?


Yes, it is. IIRC, some Jewish sects don't embalm either.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-11 21:42:00
Middle East and North AfricaWhich 16th century theologian are you?
You are Desiderius Erasmus, the Catholic humanist who offered biting satires of the Church but refused to join the Reformation cause.

Heh.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-16 23:02:00
Middle East and North AfricaMybackpages Massive ME/NA Mojo Thread
best of luck!
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-13 19:53:00
Middle East and North AfricaMENA: chauvinist or chivalrous?!
I think a man can be chivalrous without being chauvinist. C. will hold open doors, pay for dinner & evenings out, surprise me with gifts, and he totally spoiled me these holidays..... but is moving here to follow my career for a while, and we treat each other as partners. (I almost wrote equals, but that's not quite right, as we each have our own strengths, and will defer to each other on those things.)
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-16 22:28:00
Middle East and North Africawhat do i do?
Heya doodle:

1) You don't need to show proof of income until the case gets to the embassy. They'll look at your previous year's tax return, not just the year-to-date, so if your 2006 income is solid, and you have a job that can give you a letter that puts you above the poverty line, you're fine. By the time this all processes you'll likely be closer to 2007 taxes anyway, so no worries.

Some other things to consider:

2) College tuition (I'm guessing your current job is at a university) is huge. Huge, huge, hugity huge. That said, if this is the sort of job you can easily move back to (depends on what you do), there's nothing saying you can't take this job for four years, and then move back to another college tuitiony job when the kids are 15 and 16.

3) Consider the benefits & incidentals. Do you get health care? Gym privileges? On-site daycare? What would you have to pay to get those at your new job?

4) Where do you see yourself in five years? Which job gives you the better chance of getting there? Are the companies equally stable?

I'd be inclined, if I liked where I was, to try to use the offer I had to negotiate a better offer, and then squirrel away that extra cash towards debts. But it's impossible for any of us to say. Just trying to give some things to think about.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-23 21:44:00
Middle East and North AfricaConverting to Islam?
Not to wade into the catfight here sparked by the newest troll/sockpuppet...

... but to the OP, whatever you do, you shouldn't convert *for* anyone but God, because in my experience (friends converting for lovers, mostly), it usually just messes things up.

So if your boyfriend sparks your interest in Islam or Theravada Buddhism or whatever and you decide you want to convert out of your own interest, fine. If it's to try to impress the boy, well, think a little harder.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-23 17:48:00
Middle East and North AfricaIDF builds fake Arab town

I have yet to get an answer. Where has it happened? I'd say it's not in the media because it hasn't happened. I do not believe for a second if Fatah had a grand opening of an fake Israeli town to be used for military operation practice the media wouldn't be all over it. Of course, this kind of construction wouldn't happen in Palestine because it would never be allowed in the first place.


Last week there was a kerfluffle piece on how Iran must be being *aggressive* because they've developed.... defensive weapons that could be used against American air superiority in the event of an attack. That's right, constructing a defensive weapon was construed in the media as an offensive action.

I'll look for the link later, but it was CNN or NYT; somewhere mainstream.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-27 15:27:00
Middle East and North AfricaIDF builds fake Arab town
It's probably also worthwhile to point out that Ahmadinejad (I am going to misspell this, forgive me) does not control the military or the decisions to go to war at *all* under the Iranian system of government. He can spout speeches the whole day long, and piss off people, and hate Israel as much as he wants, and it doesn't actually have a thing to do with whether Iran is going to invade.

Any more than when Bush makes a speech calling North Korea part of the Axis of Evil means we're going to nuke P'yongyang, except that Bush is actually commander-in-chief. Ahmadinejad isn't. He may be playing to a base, but the control of the military is in the hands of the religious government, and they haven't survived for 30 years by being idiots.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-27 15:24:00
Middle East and North AfricaDaily Fight Thread
You know, the other thread wasn't derailed, Green-eyed girl, until you had to bring up the ####### drama again. Check out pages 2 and 3. Now, of course, some definitely bear the responsibility for taking the bait, but if you didn't want that thread derailed, maybe you could have let bygones be bygones and not dredged up old fights for two pages until someone finally bit.

This is just to say: if you don't want the fights, don't instigate them?
CaladanMaleCanada2007-02-07 23:34:00
Middle East and North AfricaMetrosexual ME/NAs?!
"Metro" doesn't mean effeminate. It's just a term coined a few years ago to describe the sort of guy who is straight, but would get a facial or a manicure or pay for an expensive hair wax. Taking care of your appearance was coded as gay for a while, hence the term, but metrosexual doesn't mean flamboyant.

Think a well-dressed trendy guy in Manhattan.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-02-08 11:34:00