ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
Middle East and North Africatuesday thread
All Saint's Day is November 1st. It doesn't really have anything to do directly with Halloween, at least not to the extent that celebrating Halloween is a Catholic thing.

It's just that depending on the version of the story you read, as some of the pagans converted to Christianity, and as the Catholic feast day happened to be near the old holiday Samhain, the old holiday became 'All Hallows' Eve.' (i.e., the night before All Saints' Day.) Quite a lot of the history of Christianity is modifying old festivals for new purposes (whether intentionally or not).

But All Saints' Day doesn't have anything to do with trick-or-treating, or devil worship, or the all-important mini candy bars. :) As far as the Church is concerned, Hallowe'en's just a day for kids to dress up and get candy.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 13:23:00
Middle East and North Africatuesday thread
The U.S. version, though, pretty much starts in the mid-late 19th century, and doesn't get commercialized until the 20th (which is when all the witches, goblins, and ghosts come back in.)
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 10:22:00
Middle East and North Africatuesday thread
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween

A basic run-down of the holiday.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 10:11:00
Middle East and North Africatuesday thread
Yeah, that's cool. I think I just disagree about the importance of the origin, generally. Most societies have harvest festivals, or wedding ceremonies, or other reasons to party, and oftentimes the festival gets picked up and modified by the religion or new society for its own purposes (sort of organically, usually).) It's kind of neat, to my mind, how the meaning changes but people still party.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 10:07:00
Middle East and North Africatuesday thread
Cool. Make sure you turn the light out on your porch. :) Otherwise the little kids will come up to the door in search of chocolate and other goodies.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 09:56:00
Middle East and North Africatuesday thread

I don't really celebrate Halloween. I don't pass out candy or attend parties or anything like that. My kids do participate in the annual Halloween parade at school. My ex doesn't like the idea of them celebrating Halloween or any other holiday having to do with another religion or paganism. We don't celebrate Christmas or Easter...both of which have paganism mixed with Christianity.

Funny thing...Mohamed thinks it's kinda strange that I don't "celebrate" Christmas. He considers it more of an "American" holiday. He likes the decorations. He suggested that he may like to "celebrate" Christmas but not as a religious holiday. He was thinking more of a fun day. Go figure.


A friend of mine spent some time in Japan, and according to him, it's become trendy amongst non-Christian young Japanese people in Tokyo to decorate for Christmas and give gifts... but to significant others, like it's Valentine's Day. Kind of cool how the holiday gets re-interpreted.


It was a pagan festival way back when, but it isn't now (any more than Day of the Dead is still a pagan holiday.) Some Christian groups feel the same way, too.

But I think it would be wrong to explain it to a foreigner as 'This is the day when Americans worship the devil', because mostly it's about letting kids get candy and run around on sugar highs.

So you're answer is no you haven't/won't explain the history or background or yes you have/will?


Fiancé's Canadian, and they celebrate Halloween there, and it's not about worshipping the devil there, either.
Lots of holidays have origins that don't line up with people's beliefs. Celebrate Valentine's Day?
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 09:50:00
Middle East and North Africatuesday thread
It was a pagan festival way back when, but it isn't now (any more than Day of the Dead is still a pagan holiday.) Some Christian groups feel the same way, too.

But I think it would be wrong to explain it to a foreigner as 'This is the day when Americans worship the devil', because mostly it's about letting kids get candy and run around on sugar highs.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 09:25:00
Middle East and North Africaabnormal and gross



And if someone says, "I don't like interfaith marriages because it's against my religion, and I don't think people should mix races because of [some Biblical quote]", well, that's not really insulting to me. And that I think is closer to the age difference case, where it's just a matter of personal beliefs and preferences.

um, was someone to rely on the above to buttress their beliefs, at best they'd be called a narrow minded bigot that subscribes to an intolerant religion.
furthermore, were someone to try to use mainstream religion as a defense of their personal beliefs, they'd be crucified in every way and the religion would distance themself from said person so quick it would make bill chasing an intern seem like a slow motion movie ;)

in short, try again.


They wouldn't be justified, and I might think they're a narrow-minded bigot. But I wouldn't be insulted, because I'd chalk it up to their crazy beliefs which I don't share. There's a *lot* of people who think interfaith marriages are wrong. I don't have that kind of time to be insulted because of what they think, and frankly if they think X is wrong, and I like X, I don't much care as long as they're not trying to make X illegal..

As to the point that religion would distance themselves from someone making an intolerant remark about their personal beliefs, man, I wish that would be the case, but I think that hasn't been borne out by experience.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-01 07:33:00
Middle East and North Africaabnormal and gross
'Gross' is a strong word, but I think most people who answered were thinking of themselves and who they would be dating.

If you be marryin' a marshmallow, you not just icky, you sticky. :)
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 17:34:00
Middle East and North Africaabnormal and gross
The cases aren't parallel.

That is, there are reasons that one might give for finding relationships with large age gaps problematic that aren't derived from an irrational dislike of older people:

1) a worry about the difference in collected life experience
2) a worry about the plausibility of either partner finding the other attractive, all things considered (i.e., is the younger partner mature enough, can they possibly share the same interests, is the older woman/man being used.)
3) worries about the power dynamics in a relationship (i.e., 55 year old rich American male, 18-year-old impoverished foreigner.)
4) worries about what happens when one partner becomes elderly while the other is just entering middle age.

All of these would worry me for myself if I or someone I cared about were dating someone much older or younger.

And if someone says, "I don't like interfaith marriages because it's against my religion, and I don't think people should mix races because of [some Biblical quote]", well, that's not really insulting to me. And that I think is closer to the age difference case, where it's just a matter of personal beliefs and preferences.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 17:23:00
Middle East and North Africaabnormal and gross
I read where Bosco said 'abnormal' and then explained already she didn't mean it as an insult but just as 'not usual'. I read where people said "I can't imagine dating someone 20 years older, that would be gross!" Or "if I dated someone 20 years younger, I'd be a pedophile", which is totally true when you're only 25. You can't date five year olds. The poll asked for people's opinions on their own experience.

I'm not getting where they're passing judgment on you or your attractiveness (presumably the women posting here aren't interested in older women), since it seems they're talking about their own choices and preferences. But suppose they are passing judgment on you... who cares? I mean, really, people don't understand why I'm petitioning for a foreign fiancé.

People might think I'm a ####### for not wearing a veil, because I'm an evil Western woman, but really, who the hell cares if people I've never met think I'm a #######? Who cares if someone thinks that a 50 year old dating a 25 year old is icky?
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 16:59:00
Middle East and North Africaabnormal and gross
Oh, yes, you're a little candle in the midst of the darkness. Please. I haven't even seen the post in question because no one can seem to find it, which is starting to make me think it doesn't exist.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 16:46:00
Middle East and North Africaabnormal and gross
Yeah, it's just that we're all too stupid to see an insulting post that for some reason no one can link us to. Maybe if I were smarter.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 16:42:00
Middle East and North AfricaShould the ME/NA board be shut down?
Nah, the inmates need the asylum. :)

Seriously, it's a good source of advice for people going through the consulates & worthwhile in that regard.

Maybe it should always be Ramadan in the ME/NA forum.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 16:24:00
Middle East and North AfricaMENA BICKERING
sarah,

hicham is a famous acrobat! he can stand on his hair!
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 18:04:00
Middle East and North AfricaAre you bored...
I think an Arabic class would be a great idea. Mostly because it was a lot of fun when I was learning French and Chad was laughing at all the things I was learning to say. ('Now we are going to learn French. Where are you going? To the university.') Your husband wouldn't feel left out, and you'd have an automatic practice buddy.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-01 09:31:00
Middle East and North AfricaAre you bored...

OK, so for those of you who are now with your SOs, if you experienced this feeling during your "internet marriage", did it improve once you were reunited in person or do you find that you still don't really have anything to talk about?
What I'm trying to get at is... is it just because there's only so much to discuss online?


We're not together yet, but we do visit relatively often, and my sense is, yes, it's just an online problem. Part of what creates closeness is being able to be together and be silent, and that's what's missing. In our case, we don't have a webcam (at the moment, he doesn't always have computer access, either), so it's not even catching someone's pauses or expressions or sighs. If we're not feeling verbal long distance, we don't communicate. In person, we can just go and get dessert or something.

When we're together, when there are silences, they're comfy silences.

moody, maybe you could... I dunno, join a knitting group or a ballet class or something that got you out of the house and chatting with people during weeknights? Gets you real human adult non-work contact, and you can tell your husband you're knitting him a sweater or show him the dance steps via webcam or whatever. I'm thinking activities, as it structures the mind and I find that's helpful, but it sounds like anything that breaks your routine at this point would help.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 22:46:00
Middle East and North AfricaAre you bored...
moody, I hear ya.

Chad and I are mostly past it now, but there was a time about a year and half ago where we nearly broke up because I could not stand that I was 25, young, and sat home nearly every night talking on the phone to someone who had little more to say most nights than 'love you miss you what are you doing.' Basically, we were too wrapped up in each other, and frankly, living only on the net is a very limiting life.

A couple things changed. Both of us started to go out more. I'm not talking about wild partying, just seeing friends, getting out of the house, having coffee, going out with colleagues. We also decided to read a book together (a chapter a night) and started following the same TV shows. And we also realized if there wasn't anything more to say, it was okay to hang up. Because we could always talk tomorrow.

You don't need space, exactly, but you need to live so you have *something* you can share with him. What do you do besides work?
CaladanMaleCanada2006-10-31 17:51:00
Middle East and North AfricaHalal Food Poll
You could do a lamb roast. Chad's family does a yearly lamb roast party (not due to dietary restriction, just because lamb is tasty.)
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-02 21:32:00
Middle East and North AfricaHow old were you
I'll be 28 by next summer, he'll be 30. First marriage (and only if the good lord willin' and the creek don't rise, as my grandma would say) for the both of us.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-02 20:23:00
Middle East and North Africanon-visa related
Well, that too. It doesn't seem like the sort of commodity that normally has a clearance rack.

('Get your 2006 tubal ligation reversals now, before they are gone forever!')
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-10 18:03:00
Middle East and North Africanon-visa related
Wait, you're engaged and you haven't met yet? I'm assuming you haven't filed, right?

If that's the case, definitely wait. Not that your relationship isn't real enough to warrant the surgery; that's not my place to judge and you'd surely know that better than I! But if you have yet to file the K-1, you've got a long wait ahead of you, and that's certainly plenty of time to find another physician or another 'sale' to crop up.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-10 17:56:00
Middle East and North Africanon-visa related
I'd wait. Use the time you're waiting for the surgery to save the extra cash. It's surgery, and even though it's a relatively uncomplicated one, the timing's just not the sort of decision one makes due to price like a bargain sale.

Even though you want to get it done soon, regardless of price, with the holidays and the travel coming up, it's probably best to wait a bit.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-10 14:07:00
Middle East and North AfricaSupporting the family
We've discussed money a lot. We figure we have enough worries with this process to try to come here too quickly and end up very broke. I have steady work, but not very lucrative work. He's currently saving so that he can contribute to half of the rent without working for six months, and so he can buy a car before he moves here.

I will probably keep my account separate, and we'll open a new account together, which I will manage. (One of us is good with money, one isn't, so that will be my job.) And then we'll work on building his U.S. credit rating.

We might send money to his sister occasionally. Not that they expect it, but she's just getting started out and has had some job troubles lately, so when I was last there we went to the local farmer's co-op and bought her about three months' work of beef, pork, and chicken. I can see us sending her some money now and then if she runs into financial trouble, but no more than we'd help one of my own sisters.

It's not a romantic conversation, but it is a necessary one.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-10 13:52:00
Middle East and North AfricaSaturday Thread
I think she just meant that she was very fertile, not that she was a #######.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-11 21:52:00
Middle East and North AfricaSaturday Thread


honey blonde....Dr. Berger in North Carolina is running a special...the full operation and followup for reversal of tubal ligation is $5,000 from now until Jan '07. Might wanna look into it since that's $1,000 off, though I guess it would depend on where in the country you live and how much the air fare diff would be.



How come everyone had their tubes tied?


My mother did after her fourth child, as she developed complications during the pregnancy and the doctor was of the opinion that a fifth pregnancy could be fatal to her or the baby. She was 33 then, so I suppose it's conceivable that had she and my dad divorced or something, she could have wanted it reversed. (They didn't, she's now fifty and hot-flashy.)
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-11 17:15:00
Middle East and North AfricaCase pending what do the stages mean?


And also: they're slow as molasses in January.


Well thank god it's still November! :D


And thank God for global warming! :lol:
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-28 23:57:00
Middle East and North AfricaCase pending what do the stages mean?
And also: they're slow as molasses in January.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-28 20:44:00
Middle East and North AfricaCase pending what do the stages mean?

I was just joshin' with ya! I'm sure it's not only Mohameds that get the shake down.



There's probably a grain of truth to it. Not that the government scrutinizes 'Mohammed' per se, but if it's a very common name, it probably generates more false hits. Sort of like finding the right 'Joseph Smith' in a phone book.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-28 20:34:00
Middle East and North Africamuslim marriage tips


this really all sounds like backpedaling to me




You've used this same phrase on me before and here is my response:


A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood

From Self-Reliance by Ralph Waldo Emerson.


This isn't really directed at you, as much as it hit a pet peeve of Emerson.

'Great minds are often misunderstood' does not mean 'if I am misunderstood, I am a great mind', and maybe if Emerson had studied Socrates, and understood him, he would have picked up on that. To be great is to be misunderstood, but you can be an idiot and be misunderstood, too.

That goes double for Nietzsche.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-28 20:12:00
Middle East and North Africamuslim marriage tips

I have a question for the people posting in here.

If you found out that your husband's PRIMARY reason for marrying you was a greencard but he was nice to you and treated you well, would you end the marriage?


So fast his head would spin. Because then we'd have what, two years and change before his primary reason for getting married disappeared? Why would I bother wasting my time? Plenty o' fish in the sea.

On the larger question, there's a difference between modifying your own behavior and compromising, as part of being in an adult relationship, and changing your behavior radically in the hopes that someone won't ditch you/hit you/cheat on you. If I make lasagna for C. because he likes it and it makes him happy, that's a good thing. If I make it so he won't hit me or go out looking for women, that's pretty awful.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-28 15:29:00
Middle East and North Africamuslim marriage tips
Recent convert?
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-28 13:24:00
Middle East and North Africamuslim marriage tips

ok what if your husband said "wow I love when you make that special food" would you not make it when he was working late that day or had a bad day or was super hungry.... in turn what if you said " wow I love it when I get in my car and the tank is full, the inside and outside is clean, and my favorite scent tree is hanging up" would he not make sure that is done for you? if you do for him what he loves he will do for you what you love?? I think that is what Jackie meant....


I think Jackie said what she meant. She pretty clearly tied it to the removal of conditions on the green card. It's in the neighborhood of some 'let's all make adjustments when we marry and be super nice and happy' sentiments that are unobjectionable, but it's not the same thing.

Of course I do nice things for C., and he does nice things for me. We are in love, and both of us care about each other, and are adults. But if we get to the point where I'm thinking, gee, he's going to leave me UNLESS I MAKE LASAGNA, I think something much more fundamental in our relationship would be broken. My lasagna's pretty damn good, but there's limits to its power.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-28 13:17:00
Middle East and North Africamuslim marriage tips
I may not be married, but my reading comprehension's pretty good. I don't see where anyone said 'I do not have to adjust my life because I am a MODERN WOMAN and I will never clean!'

I did see a lot of people thinking that maybe, just maybe, there's more than one way to divide chores that a couple could agree on, without it impugning anyone's fitness as a wife. And that more importantly, if the guy is hellbent on using you for a green card, he's likely not going to change his mind just because you make him a mean three-cheese omelette.

And I think it puts too much weight on the poor woman to say, "Yes, he came here to use you as his 'work papers', but sweetie, if the marriage fails, it's your fault because you weren't a good enough cook/submissive enough wife/thin enough/pretty enough/pious enough.'
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-28 13:00:00
Middle East and North Africamuslim marriage tips
Not to mention that there seem to be as many ways to be a good Muslim wife as a good Christian one. Not every practicing Christian wife believes that she must be submissive, and surely there's as much variation in Muslim marriages. Enthusiasm's fine, but I'm not sure there's a how-to manual on how to be a perfect wife, regardless of religion.

I think that there's nothing wrong with changing for a partner, but that if you lose your whole identity, you're changing too much. And if someone's going to swindle you for a green card, it's probably not going to matter so much that you can make a non-microwaved meal.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-11-27 15:15:00
Middle East and North AfricaSundayyyy




In any case, I don't think anyone's attacking you. You needled Sarah, she needled back, and for the love of little apples, if someone has a drinking problem, they don't order a damned coffee.



Dunno what coffee has to do with it but thanks for your input. I disagree that I needled her. Asked a simple question is all. Normally when she starts things I tend to ignore the bullying but tonight I dont' feel like backin' down. Too many good people have been driven from this board for this very behaviour and quite frankly it is sickening to me.


doodle, in the pic she posted, there's a beer and a coffee. You've been insinuating that the only reason Sarah's getting antsy is because of a hidden alcohol problem.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-04 23:23:00
Middle East and North AfricaSundayyyy

No it's not like going through RCIA at all. You have to believe that there is only one God (no trinity) and that Muhammed, pbuh, is His final messenger. If you are Christian you also have to believe that Jesus, pbuh, is not God. One you truly believe this in your heart you can say the shahada which is basically just stating the above. Then you are muslim.


So there's no list of rules to memorize. Maybe the dating thing is more cultural than religiously mandated? More than one way to skin a cat, as it were? I don't know a lot of Muslims, but the ones that I do know are all women who are doctors and don't wear hijab but still seem observant (with not eating pork, & ramadan.)

In any case, I don't think anyone's attacking you. You needled Sarah, she needled back, and for the love of little apples, if someone has a drinking problem, they don't order a damned coffee.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-04 23:12:00
Middle East and North AfricaSundayyyy
I have a question:

When you convert to Islam, does one not have to, hmm, go through a process, or talk to a religious leader, or be in a group or something? I'm just curious; I'm Catholic, and if you want to be Catholic, you have several months of classes in the faith in order to learn about it.

How did you convert? Is it as simple as waking up one day and deciding to be Muslim? Or do you have to do anything?
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-04 22:59:00
Middle East and North Africapart of my travel....
Oh, I agree they should be paid well. But I think that those kind of numbers, especially in Detroit, *do* constitute being well-paid (unlike teacher's salaries.)
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-07 12:55:00
Middle East and North Africapart of my travel....
$80K a year plus overtime where I grew up would put you in the upper-middle middle class. Ph.D.'s don't generally make you rich.
CaladanMaleCanada2006-12-07 12:23:00