ForumTitleContentMemberSexCountryDate/Time
Middle East and North AfricaArab Bashing
Dude, wahrania, aren't you in a May-December relationship yourself? It's somewhere beyond the pot calling the kettle black and the kettle losing her sh!t because there is another kettle!!!!one!1!

According to Islam, marriage entail certain legal rights. (This makes it different from some forms of Christianity, but even they will balk at performing a religious ceremony without a legal one.) No legal rights, no Islamic marriage. Maybe a piece of paper that makes it easier to get around in public on holiday, maybe something that's newly acceptable. (Or not. Would the guys be okay with their sisters having this marriage?) But I don't see a way that it's a legally recognized marriage if the person's then filing a K-1.
CaladanMaleCanada2008-04-19 10:29:00
Middle East and North AfricaArab Bashing
VW, there's a saying 'cast not thy pearls before swine.' Wrong religious tradition, but probably worth taking to heart here. I don't think anyone thinks wahrania's an expert on MENA, Islam, or relationships.

wahrania, you can continue to wave your little 'but think of the children' flag along with your 'I tell it like it is' flag until you have your own semaphore routine, but you're ignoring tammy's posts at this point.
CaladanMaleCanada2008-03-18 08:39:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuta marriage in Egypt
QUOTE (Virtual wife @ Apr 20 2008, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Marriage is NEVER simply an act before God. It is ALWAYS a legal matter, no matter what country's soil is under a couple's feet when they marry.

This is particularly true in Islam. The nikah contract is just that, a legal contract. It is not a sacrament, as in Christianity. There is no "married in God's eyes". It is a social contract whose power lies in its ability to provide protection and enforce responsibilites.

In a paper marriage, none of this exists. The onus is on the parties themselves to be honorable enuf to keep to the contract. If they don't want to, they don't have to.

I think that western women, charmed by the exotic nature of a foreign culture and faith, are easily lead to believe that a nikah is a nikah is a nikah. Certainly, that is not so, and western women, convert or not, imbued in Christian ideology of the sacrement of marriage in their heads, fall all too fast for "marriage in God's eyes", something they are less likely to do with a western man.


This is a good point, and it's worth noting that it's rare that you'll find a priest or minister who would be willing to officiate at the sacrament if it wasn't also going to be legally binding absent some kind of good reason. (Like the state persecuting religious marriages, or the alternative being the couple doesn't get the sacrament at all (like some pre-visa religious ceremonies.) But if the average couple walks in and says 'we want to get religiously married but incur none of the social and legal obligations', most priests would balk.
CaladanMaleCanada2008-04-20 15:07:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuta marriage in Egypt
QUOTE
How well do you suppose that "agreement" would hold up in court?


One big difference between Islamic law and Anglo-American law is that the latter does recognize common-law marriages in some circumstances as just as legally binding as a marriage. She'd probably have a pretty good case for half the house.

And you're absolutely right that it wouldn't be a marriage, and as such wouldn't be automatically subject to the same legal wonkery in the event of the relationship terminating. And she certainly wouldn't be filing for a divorce.
CaladanMaleCanada2008-04-20 14:26:00
Middle East and North AfricaMuta marriage in Egypt
QUOTE (Purple_Hibiscus @ Apr 20 2008, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
Well, you can't always get what you want. This is a public forum and, frankly, few here know enuf about the subject to know how to evaluate it. That is a frustration for me


Frustrating, probably, but do you just want to be right about this particular couple, or do you want to share things you have learned in order to help those who struggle to graps the concept? Any Western woman who would like to marry a Muslim should be armed with information and not just information gleaned from a message board but it seems few are. You have some very intersting information on this subject that could be useful to someone contemplating this type of union.


This is a good point. Aside from all the drama about who's p!ssed off God and who's a fornicator and who needs to say shahada again and who's insulted whom and whether Stefano's evil plans will succeed (tune in next week on Days of Our Lives!) are some good non-Islam-related questions:

1) Are muta (I think that's the right term) marriages considered something that your average respectable Egyptian (mutatis mutandis for other countries) family would be happy about? If so, why? If not, why not? Does this vary by country? (I.e., since Egypt doesn't allow Americans to marry there these days, people might see the alternative as just as legitimate, given the circumstances preventing full marriage.)
2) Are these marriages considered something that isn't good enough for a respectable person, but okay for an American? If so, is this indicative of a problem?
3) What happens when one of these marriages ends? Is it considered akin to a normal divorce, or it is more like breaking up (for us Westerners) with a boyfriend or girlfriend (i.e., no responsibilities towards the ex or the ex's family.)?
4) Is there any correlation between these kinds of marriages and fraud? (i.e., 'I'm not really married, sweetie, I'm doing this for us and once I'm in the US and married civilly settled I'll send for you, my real intended.')
CaladanMaleCanada2008-04-20 13:23:00
Middle East and North Africamarriage between muslim women and non muslim men . HALAL or Haram
Sweet sunshine & holy water, shouldn't this sort of Muslim Olympiad of Holier-Than-Thou be taken to PM?
CaladanMaleCanada2008-04-21 13:15:00
Middle East and North Africastateside honor killings
QUOTE (wahrania @ Apr 24 2008, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (aisha kandisha @ Apr 24 2008, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Filicide is horrible, whether it is done in the name of so-called honor or for some other "reason" - not that one every exists. I don't think this case is any more or less sad than they death of any child at the hands of their parents.

Americans have their own type of honor killings... its more like when a husband finds his wife sleeping with someone else .. and shoots her.. crimes of passion.. lots of times get manslaughter pleas..


Actually, a crime of passion and an honor killing are quite different. The states that have a heat-of-the-moment exemption for crimes of passion actively require it to be in the heat of the moment. Honor killings tend to involve anger, but often happen weeks later by parties who planned it (make the younger brother kill his sister, because it'll only be a juvie crime for him.)
CaladanMaleCanada2008-04-25 06:57:00
Middle East and North AfricaSo does it really suck when they get here or what?
bridget, uh, so I missed your news. Congrats! Yay! wooooo! wooooo!

We obviously didn't have the whole culture shock thing, but the hardest part for us was him being bored out of his mind in a new town while unable to work. If you can get him involved in something that structures his day - a language class, volunteering, something through the mosque - it will make some things a little bit easier.
CaladanMaleCanada2008-04-09 16:34:00
Middle East and North AfricaThe moan and groan thread

For women separated from their husbands, a #######/vibrator discussion can be highly informative, imo. I'm one of those women, btw.

A turn on? im sure men the other day were thrilled to hear about what color panties everyone was wearing that wasnt in (General) that was specific what each was going to do


Day of the week panties. More TMI!



You harlot. You mentioned your underwear. Next you'll be saying that you wear a bra. ;) Or that you're naked under your clothes!
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-20 10:41:00
Middle East and North AfricaThe moan and groan thread

Come on people- there is a differencce between a ####### and a vibrator. You can't use then interchangablely. so if you want to talk abotu what sex toys you have - get it right. :crying:


Amen. Also, there's a difference between saying, "my ####### is green" and writing erotica. If you think it's TMI, that's fine, but there's no need to turn a non-detailed, non-descriptive joking comment into the Marquis de Sade and discussing your intimate life with strange men (um, where?) and what will the husband think (American women are normally in the habit of only speaking after clearing it with the censors?) and this isn't good MENA values (half of these couples are still American, right?)...


Yeesh. Let's get back to doodle.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-20 10:02:00
Middle East and North AfricaThe moan and groan thread
I feel like I'm missing something here. But I wanted to send mental good vibes to doodle (NOT THE GROSS AND ABNORMAL BATTERY OPERATED KIND ;) ), because it sounds like she could use a bathtub full of chocolate and a wide straw.

(Are you guys seriously parodying yourselves here? Wasn't the Internet pretty much invented for anonymous, inappropriate conversations?)
CaladanMaleCanada2007-01-19 22:37:00
Middle East and North AfricaMy Husband's Father was Deported Yesterday
mermaid's & rebeccajo's advice, when you're ready for it, is good. It contains the sorts of questions you're going to need to be able to answer, and 'sic the lawyers on 'em' is going to entail looking at those questions, too.
[quote]
Is it really okay to yell at relatives if they simply ask a question. Is it really okay to put someone in jail without charges.
[\quote]

It's legal to detain someone before removing them, yes, under certain circumstances.

As to them yelling, that's just an ego with a badge, but I am not certain what they're permitted to divulge to family.

The travesty here might be what is legal (he certainly won't be the first person with a bad immigration experience), but that's something even allousa won't know until all the facts come out.
CaladanMaleCanada2008-07-13 22:59:00
Middle East and North AfricaMy Husband's Father was Deported Yesterday
Un-fricking-believable. I'm so sorry, allousa, and angry on your behalf. Sic the lawyers on 'em.
CaladanMaleCanada2008-07-12 18:34:00
Middle East and North Africafeelings about revenge and deportation when things dont work out
One of my friends, who is a doctor, has often spoken of the wisdom of realizing that anti-depressants aren't going to change your personality, or make you into a different person, or control your moods, but help give you the assistance you need to break out of negative patterns of thinking and heal on your own. It's like taking painkillers for a muscle strain so you can stand to stretch it out.



CaladanMaleCanada2008-12-16 11:59:00
Middle East and North Africagreen card marriages, ladies beware
A "red flag" is just what the consulate has noticed is a common factor in fraudulent cases. But that doesn't mean it's a "red flag" for the relationship, or useful for an *individual* ascertaining the loyalty of her boyfriend. Two separate things.
CaladanMaleCanada2009-01-20 23:00:00
Middle East and North AfricaIs abuse ever OK in a relationship?
No, abuse is never okay.

It may have a cultural explanation. It does not have a cultural justification.
CaladanMaleCanada2009-02-17 21:25:00
Middle East and North AfricaWhat is the stupidest thing you have heard because your with a MENA SO ?
QUOTE (Nawal @ Dec 22 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well M4E, don't you know what he's waiting for? For his future bride from overseas to reach 18! laughing.gif

Because as you know: Don't they marry children there? devil.gif 'LOL:

I'm on a roll. I have to think of more silly ones. tongue.gif


Nawal, your babies are about the cutest kids ever. Mini Santas! squeeeeee!
CaladanMaleCanada2008-12-22 22:52:00
Middle East and North AfricaMy precious son
rose.gif

I hope the doctor comes through for you soon; there's plenty of things that can cause seizures that aren't epilepsy, and while the Internet is a good resource, it can sometimes make you worry more (like when you look up "headache" and get "brain tumor" as a possible cause.)

I think you're doing the right thing in enlisting the embassy's help; I wish you all the best and I hope he gets good treatment quickly.



CaladanMaleCanada2008-12-17 17:57:00
Middle East and North AfricaMENA diet/exercise thread
QUOTE (sereia @ Mar 21 2008, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i'm confused. i used the mayo clinic calculator and if i plugged in my current weight it said to eat 2200 calories a day with being active. if i plugged in my approximate goal weight with being active it said to eat 2150. why would they be so similar? maybe i'm just seriously stressed out and tired from my recent events but it doesn't make sense. i plugged in the same height and activity level yet very different weights....i think i need to go back to bed.


Those are maintenance levels of calories, not for weight loss. Your body burns a certain amount every day, and that doesn't vary all that much by weight. It varies a lot more by activity.

I plugged in my weight goal (drop 7 pounds) and it picked a date at the rate of one pound per week so I'd be at my goal weight by May. But it said to eat only 1600 per day, and I don't think I'd be able to keep off the weight if I dropped the calories that low.

Edited by Caladan, 21 March 2008 - 01:53 PM.

CaladanMaleCanada2008-03-21 13:50:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (Green-eyed girl @ Oct 17 2007, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (peezey @ Oct 17 2007, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Green-eyed girl @ Oct 17 2007, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not the same religon. I know that officials in Morocco, for example, are not keen on mixed marriages because, however moderate the country is, there is a growing belief that the west is a corrupting influence on Muslims. I'm also seeing that belief transferring over to many in the populace.

Not the same ethnicity and/or culture. Consulates do consider the compatibility of couples in thise terms and look for signs of westernization in the applicant.


Were the populace of Morocco in the business of granting visas, your first statement might be relevant, but here it only serves dramatic purpose. In fact I don't think for these small number of marriages/engagements thru Morocco, I don't see anyone giving two craps. Clearly the families don't mind, how many hundreds of engagement/wedding/henna party pics have we all seen in the last few years?

As for your second point, obviously most of the visas we are discussing in this forum are between bi-national couples, so this again is totally irrelevant other than to potentially compound with other more glaring issues such as religion (clearly has been an issue with couples), language (often has been an issue with couples), and age differences (also has been noted on NOID/r).


We will have to agree to disagree. I wouldn't bring it up if it wasn't relevent.


I think I have to agree with peezey. It wouldn't surprise me if some Arab-American/Arab couples faced overall less scrutiny, especially if we imagine the situation as being a man who secured an H1-B, became a permanent resident, and then married and sponsored a woman from back home, or someone who had American citizenship but was raised largely overseas.

But what's doing the bulk of the heavy lifting in those cases would be an easier proof of relationship and familiarity with culture, not just national origin. I'd need to know the percentages of non-Arab-Americans petitioning for Moroccans, but on the assumption that it's not small minority, the fact of someone's being American isn't going to be a red flag, even if most fraudulent cases involve non-Arab-Americans, because it doesn't help the CO sort the wheat from the chaff. The red flag has to be relatively unique to fraudulent cases. (All women who use American men for green cards have American men in common, but that doesn't make American men a red flag.)
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-19 10:30:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (sarah and hicham @ Oct 19 2007, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (tammy sue kay @ Oct 18 2007, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WHY?
Why would it bring up red flags? Because that is exactly how I met my husband. Pop! The IM window came up and he said hi, I said hi, and boom, there ya go! Apx 8 months later I made the trip to Jordan and we got married. He will be here on October 31, Trick or Treat! Not sure why anyone would be questioning IM's as a way of meeting someone. It could and does happen.


Easy there. Just because that's how you met your husband doesn't mean it's not a red flag.



I do not know if it is as red flag or not. But some women here have reported the experience of having random guys pop up and within in a couple of lines of conversation propose marriage, and they've recognized those guys as fraudsters trying to get to the U.S., in one case I recall here the entire conversation going 'u r american?!? i love u, will u marry me?'

And of course, something being a red flag doesn't entail fraud. A red flag is just something that a case has in common with a fraudulent case and that is a useful sorter for the CO.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-19 10:21:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
From Hannah's post where she excludes chatroom and game sites and boards, I took randomly IMing to mean being online, and having someone who just happened to get your screenname pop up and start spouting love epithets. Which is a little bit weirder than deciding to IM someone you were playing a game with.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-19 10:00:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
Way back to wife_of_mahmoud: I don't think we have a lot of hard data on fraud cases, just suspicions. But age gaps as a flag (as a predictor of fraud) don't help as much when the man is older, since that's the norm. Yet, if you browse around some of the Asia forum, you'll see that some consulates will think the relationship is invalid if the couple hasn't had at least three visits. It's like they suspect fraud so much that nearly everyone is a suspect and age isn't even a big problem.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-17 11:53:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (charlesandnessa @ Oct 16 2007, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Angel?Anmar @ Oct 16 2007, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (sarah and hicham @ Oct 16 2007, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm scared.



QUOTE (amira_ordonia @ Oct 16 2007, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I disagree, its very disturbing.


I am beginning to think wahrania is bipolar.

let's not make that kinda statement unless you have the credentials to back up such a statement. otherwise, it's a violation of tos.


Indeed. And it would be a misuse of credentials to diagnose someone over the Internet.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-16 18:33:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (sara535 @ Oct 16 2007, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Caladan @ Oct 16 2007, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh my goodness, at 37 weeks, you must feel like you're ready to pop. How are you holding up? rose.gif



I have frightening cankles. and I am counting the freaking days! I just want to be able to tie my own shoes again! or even see them, for that matter!

thanks for asking laughing.gif


I think one of my friends said it best when I inquired about the health of his wife who was counting the days like you: "She's just really sick of being pregnant."

--
Pattu Rani, can you laugh it off? When someone asks "what will you do in five years..?" with that knowing look, pretend to ponder it and say, "Hmm, he might be getting wrinkly... I might have to find a younger one with more stamina" and then explain or not explain as you feel like it? Also, pooh on the prejudices of an old astrologer.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-16 14:14:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
Oh my goodness, at 37 weeks, you must feel like you're ready to pop. How are you holding up? rose.gif
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-16 13:38:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (Bassi and Zainab @ Oct 16 2007, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Caladan @ Oct 16 2007, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why the younger man is looking for an older American woman? I think Jenn's nailed it. I wouldn't call it "taking advantage of" in the non-harmful cases, but more like one thing the woman brings to the table is financial security. It's an asset that she has. We don't normally talk of relationships that way. Instead we let things like 'college educated' or 'from a good family' do all the class sorting for us and pretend that it's just coincidence that Harvard girls don't generally marry construction workers. But it's really the same thing. It is nothing to be offended over, any more than you'd be offended at someone saying the Yale-trained doctor was a good catch. And it's also not a good thing to say at the consulate, any more than you'd meet the doctor's family and exclaim that you loved him because he'd buy you a big house.

The trouble is, from a visa standpoint, is that a healthy relationship superficially resembles one where the guy is just using the older woman and doesn't care about her at all as long as she gets him the visa.


I'm a Columbia University "girl" marrying a construction worker.....and giddy with joy over it. There are classy, intelligent blue collar people in the world. I found one. At either rate, I'm marrying the person that he is, not the box that he fits in in American society.


My husband does not have a college education either. You'll notice I didn't say 'all', I said 'generally.' I also didn't say that there weren't classy, intelligent blue collar people. Please to be reading the words that are actually written. smile.gif

There's a LOT of 'Oh, I don't care about money, but I wouldn't date a townie, God no' among undergrads. It's not polite to talk about money or to frame it explicitly, but it's surely not just coincidence that college-educated people generally date and marry other college-educated people, and a lot of it boils down to proxies for wealth. (Oh, no, we don't SAY money. We just want a guy who shares our interests, like skiing, and travel.)
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-16 11:14:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (Jenn! @ Oct 16 2007, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (brnidokiegurl @ Oct 16 2007, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
older american women at times go for young american men to (if you can find one responsible and that doesnt go around saying COOL every 5 secs) in the end it all still becomes a personal choice, fat skinny, tall, short, black, white its on the inside that counts



Yes, but we are trying to analyze something here, in which case you have to look at trends and such, not just fall back on platitudes.

ETA: Take it out of the context of MENA relationships. Let's say, instead that we're talking about interracial relationships here in the U.S. Have you ever noticed that you see more black men with white women than you see black women with white men? Mustn't there be some sort of rational explanation behind that? Yes, it is what's on the inside that counts, etc. But that does nothing to explain *why* there is a difference.


Or why, when a guy decides that American women are too fat and too feminist, he curiously never goes to a country where the women are of the same socioeconomic status (and more curiously, might even believe that material wealth has nothing to do with it.)
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-16 11:06:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (moody @ Oct 16 2007, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is my husband's theory as to why so many MENA men marry older women from the states: Older women generally have more patience and time on their hands to sit in front of the computer and deal with a man with broken English than younger women.



I'd also guess that older women tend to hang out on computers more than younger women generally, at least in places looking for love or in chat rooms. If you're a young American woman in college, for example, you probably have no time at all for some (ew! creepy) older Moroccan dude because your life is pretty packed with boys and activities. I would not have met C. in college. Too much going on. Too large a dating pool.

I think the demographics on all of the dating sites tend to be a little older (like late twenties.) And an older woman is less likely to buy into the whole man-as-provider model, especially if she's been divorced. She probably has her own money. (And if you have your own money and interests, why not go with the hot younger man?) But it's not easy for her to find dates here: men tend to 'marry down.'

Why the younger man is looking for an older American woman? I think Jenn's nailed it. I wouldn't call it "taking advantage of" in the non-harmful cases, but more like one thing the woman brings to the table is financial security. It's an asset that she has. We don't normally talk of relationships that way. Instead we let things like 'college educated' or 'from a good family' do all the class sorting for us and pretend that it's just coincidence that Harvard girls don't generally marry construction workers. But it's really the same thing. It is nothing to be offended over, any more than you'd be offended at someone saying the Yale-trained doctor was a good catch. And it's also not a good thing to say at the consulate, any more than you'd meet the doctor's family and exclaim that you loved him because he'd buy you a big house.

The trouble is, from a visa standpoint, is that a healthy relationship superficially resembles one where the guy is just using the older woman and doesn't care about her at all as long as she gets him the visa.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-16 10:59:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (Maggie724 @ Oct 11 2007, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Caladan @ Oct 11 2007, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, for crying out loud, people.
But why you're wondering why she's wondering why you're wondering why she's wondering why he's wondering why the CO is wondering why the blah blah blah let's dance around the elephant in the room taunting it with innuendo. We all know the elephant is there. Can we quit poking it? Can we quit pretending we have no idea why anyone is worried about age gaps, culture gaps, language gaps, meeting once gaps?

[/rant induced by a total lack of EAD]



Wow Caladan. I thought you had it all together. I haven't seen this behavior in you before. unsure.gif Seriously though, I hope you get your EAD soon. I would imagine it's difficult to have a bored spouse at home.


Just a little. I mean, it's great having him here, but it's annoying as hell that every day they ####### around is literally money out of our pocket. It's any day now but his employer has been calling him for a month.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-12 08:10:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (Green-eyed girl @ Oct 11 2007, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Frankly, who gives a damn about who's wondering about this? It's none of their business anyway. Go get a life and stop wondering about why someone is with someone else you don't even know.

Enough already.


That too.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-11 21:27:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
Oh, for crying out loud, people. It's an issue in this forum because one suspected profile of a green card scammer is a young, uneducated man who sits on Internet chat and dating sites all day until he hits on a willing American non-Arab woman, usually a divorcee who is older than the typical first-time bride in his culture and anxious for a change in her life, who meets him once, maybe even converts to Islam "for him", and gets taken for a ride after waiting nearly a year and a half to be with someone who turned out just to want a green card to bring over his loving 'cousin.'

This is not to say that anyone dating a younger man is being scammed. That would be a foolish and prejudicial thing to say. But that's why it comes up.

But if you were all men seeking Russian brides you'd be looking for different signs of scams, too. You'd be wondering if the consulate knows something about such and such a red-light district in Thailand, and is it a problem she worked in a bar? And you'd manage to talk about it without six rounds of ####### wank #######.

But why you're wondering why she's wondering why you're wondering why she's wondering why he's wondering why the CO is wondering why the blah blah blah let's dance around the elephant in the room taunting it with innuendo. We all know the elephant is there. Can we quit poking it? Can we quit pretending we have no idea why anyone is worried about age gaps, culture gaps, language gaps, meeting once gaps?

[/rant induced by a total lack of EAD]
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-11 21:15:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
And male. It's common worldwide for the male in the marriage to be older, and generally more so the more traditional the culture gets. So while I have no doubt that there's plenty of young women taking an American guy for a ride, unless the age gap is really large, it's not going to be useful as a sorter for fraud for the CO to note that the guy is older.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-10 12:36:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
QUOTE (polarbear @ Oct 7 2007, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (end of atmosphere @ Oct 7 2007, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But what if the large gaps in being together are directly related to the visa issue?

I am married to an Iranian. It took a lot of effort for me to get a three month tourist visa to Iran. When we went to register our marriage at the police station they wanted me to give up my US passport. So I had to leave.

My husband can't get a visa to come to the US while he waits for his immigrant visa.

This forces us to be seperate, however, we have taken time away from work just so we could meet in a third party country to maintain our relationship. Can you imagine how hard it is to get time off every couple of months from work and the money it costs?


I agree... I think just about everyone who has a steady job and dependant on that income has large gaps in being together while going through the visa process.

My SO and I met while living in a 3rd part country, then had to seperate due to visa issues and then be further seperated by this application process. That's my only red flag! And I hate to think that would be the reason we were stuck in AP for months sad.gif I don't know yet since we still don't have an interview, but it's making me antzy wacko.gif


I'm just speculating, but I think that they know that couples that are separated by hundreds or thousands of miles can't meet up every month. And they approve people who have met once in person. So I'm guessing the case they have in mind is where someone claims to be a couple but whose last meeting was almost two years ago.

I wonder if the State department warning for Egypt has more to do with higher amounts of tourism to Egypt (since the site is aimed at Americans travelling abroad.) And it might bear repeating that a red flag is not a reason for denial. It's a characteristic that has been found, in the consular officer's experience, to be common among cases which are fraudulent. It's the whole picture that matters.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-10-07 14:33:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
If their wives are from high-fraud countries, they do. The age gap isn't a flag, but other factors can be (like what district their fiancé is from, &c.) It's just that the Moroccan profile of someone trying to use a USC to get into the U.S. often involves a large age gap.

Zoloft Needed, it sounds like your friend, as unfortunate as her story was, ended up very lucky.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-04-21 11:02:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
When my friend interviewed for this job, I was a character witness, and was interviewed in an unsettlingly way. The guy says 'I'll be there at 4'; I was in college at the time, at my parents' house, working some lame summer job that ended at 3, so I figured I'd have time to get home and relax, freshen up.

When I got home, this jolly old officer had already talked to my neighbors, my dad, my mom, and pretty much had a complete background on me --- I can only presume just by having a good memory and my parents' chattering -- by the time I walked in the door. So we talked, all friendly and mostly nice, except occasionally he'd insinuate that my friend chased women, or that his dad was a junkie, or that his mother was a #######, or that all the neighbors knew about bad thing X they did. The sort of thing you wouldn't normally say in polite conversation.

I don't think he was even listening to my answers, just watching my body language. Of course M.'s mom's not a prostitute! &c. No, he'd never chase girls!

And I wasn't even the one up for the position!
CaladanMaleCanada2007-04-14 20:04:00
Middle East and North AfricaLET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS
I think the takeaway from this is to send as much as you can in the original petition if you're going through a high-fraud consulate, since that seems to be how the COs arrive at their decision or at least their mindset going into the interview. People here have posted about cafés bragging about their American wife success rates, and their fiancés knowing men who call their wives paperwork. This is known to *legitimate* guys trying to come here. The COs know this, too.

When you get a tough interview, that's a technique. (I have a friend who works for, as he used to like to say... the Treasury Department, and he's explained this. ;)) People don't lie well when they're unsettled, and if the CO thinks that your spouse is using you for immigration benefits, the CO is going to do his or her best to throw him off his game. It works even if you know that's what they're doing. It sucks, but being mean isn't just arbitrary.

Petitions getting sent back to DHS doesn't make a lot of sense, as there are supposed to be two distinct functions (DHS doesn't evaluate the legitimacy of the relationship, so...) in the two stages of the process, but it wouldn't surprise me if the tacit instructions to the CO were to send it back to get it out of State's hair, on the grounds that a legit couple would make it through the delay.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-04-14 19:44:00
Middle East and North AfricaCASABLANCA
It shouldn't be a problem, but it *has* been cited as a reason before. I'm not trying to scare you, but it so *can* be their business if they think that it is, just like it's their business what my finances are or what his job is or how many times we've met and what we did. It's a high-fraud consulate that doesn't have its act entirely together, and if a mixed-religion marriage is correlated with a high incidence of fraud, it will be a flag.

It probably won't be an issue. But it might be good to have some answer prepared in case it does come up, and some way to back that up.
CaladanMaleCanada2007-04-17 08:54:00
Middle East and North AfricaRiots in Egypt?
Yeah, the media haven't been much clearer than 'Egypt' which doesn't really give a good sense of it.
CaladanMaleCanada2008-04-09 16:35:00
Middle East and North AfricaRiots in Egypt?
Been reading about food shortages & the resulting riots in Egypt in the news lately. Everyone's s.o.'s okay?
CaladanMaleCanada2008-04-09 16:11:00