biggish data

Do your husbands and children watch these shows and think they are ok?

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-10 11:23:00

QUOTE (Len_and_Bren @ Apr 9 2008, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think any man who lets his wife support him is not much of a man. I think any man who abuses his wife or any other woman should be shot on the spot. I am only complaining about the women that are not treating their husbands the way they would like to be treated. Do unto others as you would like done to you. Be supportive to your husbands, it is going to be very hard on them coming here. Would each of you that have said something like "I am sick of having to talk slow" or something like that be willing to let your husband read what you have written here? One post said things not to say to your husband "I'm going to send you back"etc. Why is it ok for someone to say anything hurtful or mean to their spouse? It should not be acceptable for a woman or a man to say these kind of things to the person they love. Would a mother say to her children in the heat of the moment " I hate you and I wish you were dead" No that is horible and would hurt your child extremely but women get angry at their husbands and say these things but we are suppose to understand?

What century are we talking about Talbert? Welcome to the 21st. Some women work and some men take care of the house; and that does not make them any less "manly".

Let me clarify, if a man is lazy and doesn't want to work. Raising children and keeping the house clean is hard work. The previous post was someone complaining about American men letting a wife support him while he was sitting around drinking beer.

If the wife can make more money and the husband wants to stay home with the kids that is fine.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 16:10:00

QUOTE (wahrania @ Apr 9 2008, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (CarolynRitesh @ Apr 9 2008, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 10 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (wahrania @ Apr 9 2008, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gary,

Hate for an ex is love that has disappointed you. You need some counseling. I don't hate my ex, I don't love him, I have no feelings because I don't care any more. I have moved on to greener pastures.

If my husband spent this much time dwelling on his ex I would get so freaking sick of it that it would eventually lead to problems. Can't you move on????

I have moved on and I never talk about her, I only brought her up because I am curious why the difference in women from other cultures.

First let me clue you into something. Many women from other cultures do dastardly things to American Men. Take a hop skip and a stroll over to some of the other threads and you will see South American , Russian, Chinese you name it taking American men for greencard rides up and down the street. I personally have watched several south American women in the area that I live in in Florida make a laughing stock of their American husbands. Its not about culture. Its about UPBRINGING and to catagorize all American women as bad because you got taken for a ride is horrible. You are painting all women from MEXICO as saintlike and great moms and that just is not the case. You could have just as easily ended up with a former prostitute who stole all your money and waited out her AOS period and latered you.

I watch these threads started by these men that somehow think all RUSSIANS are saints. I got to the point that I just pointed out that most of the prostitutes working in UAE . Abu Dhabi and Dubai are from the FSU. The problem with prostitution of the FSU countries has become so severe that you really do not know WHAT or WHO you are marrying when you marry a woman from a foreign country. At least with an American you can run a background check. Can you do that with a foreign wife? Do you really know where she has been all the years before you knew her...The same thing stands with South America and Mexico. Do you really know the woman you marry as well as you could know an American? Just wondering.

The arrogance of some of the American men marrying foreign women astounds me. You do not have to BASH american women to point out the positives in your wife. American women also have to put up with being expected to work full time and raise kids and do everything else while alot of American men would put us out to work like farm hands and abuse the ####### out of us and then when you finally get your wife toy from overseas, you baby them. If I could sit on my ### and raise kids and not pull in a paycheck, I would be miss perfect too. The biggest problem with american women is our MEN. They want everything, give very little back, offer no romance or love story and then whine that we don't do what foreign women do. We don't get the chance to. We have to build your life on our backs,break our lives in half, raise your children for you to turn around and say we are not feminine or submissive enough. Who the hell is paying the bills while we are submissive. Not a damn person.... I do not blame you for looking overseas but most women do not start out their relationships bitter. We start out with dreams and needs.... and unlike most of my friends who just put up with the beer bellies and no personality red neck antics, we went else where too. Just like you

Sorry mena girls if my post offends anyone...

See now, you pissed of Wahrania, and she is raging preggy hormonal.

Wahrania, it is true about the Russian prostitutes in Dubai. MY SIL lived there and said they are everywhere. Imagine one of them hooking up with an American for a visa. Then we would see some hate all Russian women.

The thing I find interesting is that after looking through quite a few of the forums, I have seen many many many negative comments about American women, but this was the first one I have seen about American men. (DON'T PISS OFF THE PREGNANT WOMAN!)

In all seriousness, it is tiresome to read about how 'we' are all money-grubbing gold diggers or evil or selfish, etc. I just don't know what American women they are talking about or have been associating with - no one in my family or friendship circle could remotely be characterized that way!

Thats cause most American women have the sense in their head not to make threads talking about how much American men suck. Yes , they do not ALL SUCK. But like alot of the men putting their foreign wives up on pedestals and then trashing American women, I kinda wanna stick up for American women because their posts are annoying. I was reading through some russian threads and I just didnt even bother posting anything because it served no purpose. Why bash all American men? I have ice cream flavors that I like but that doesnt mean I dont like any other flavors, I just go out of my way to grab the rocky road.

And if you really think about it , all these IMBRA waivers werent exactly invented to protect foreign men from American women. They were invented for the most part to protect women from coming over here and getting killed or beaten by men with criminal records or men who petitioned and petitioned and petitioned and sent the girls back and used the INS like a mail order bride service.

I personally like American men. If I could have found one that clicked with me and made my heart dance it would have made my life alot easier than falling in love with someone far away. I think women in general want to have the best things in life. Some of us just found it faster than others. Some of us got screwed over and then are looking for the pony under a pile of ####. Some of us just give up and eat ice cream. Some of us buy 29 cats. But for Talbert, if you think ALL AMERICAN women have had a gravy train being married to American men, you are SADLY mistaken. Being an American woman is hard as hell because along with the freedom comes a boat load of responsibility and society's attitudes with puts even more pressure on us. We have to listen to AMERICAN MEN say we are not submissive enough yet we have to work like hell in this society to put food on the table, get paid less than men,many American women have to not only juggle our lives but we have to care for elderly parents and family in a society that does not value older people. We consistantly earn less over our lifetimes then men because we are usually the primary care givers. Then I read threads from men raised by American men bashing us all over the place. The reality is that we dont get the breaks that alot of these foreign wives . We got alot of the American men when they got out of the school or army or whatever and hadnt established themselves enough to wonder if we submitted or not. We were too busy struggling along side the men, trying to build a life. Its the trophy wife syndrome. The american women are the workhorses and when hubby decides hes made it, he s all of the sudden looking at her body , who shes become and he did nothing to shelter her from aging and stress and then all of the sudden pronounces her bitter. Well if you are some woman who shouldered all the bills and were never treated well and built some guys life up and his career and stepped all over your dreams for him to get his and all of the sudden you are being compared to some girl in a 3rd world country who has very little to do other than do her hair and sit at home and doesnt live in the western dog eat dog world, it does become enraging. I understand why American women get a case of the ### with american men. If we dont work hard, we are lazy. If we work too hard we are bitchy and dont care about our men. It sure is hell sometimes to be an American woman. And I will be damned if some man who was suckled at the breast of a hard working american woman is going to bash the women that built this country that he is bringing his new wife too... I have too much respect for other women, American and other wise to allow that.

Just my two cents

Sorry I am hormonal/// if I offend anyone

I think any man who lets his wife support him is not much of a man. I think any man who abuses his wife or any other woman should be shot on the spot. I am only complaining about the women that are not treating their husbands the way they would like to be treated. Do unto others as you would like done to you. Be supportive to your husbands, it is going to be very hard on them coming here. Would each of you that have said something like "I am sick of having to talk slow" or something like that be willing to let your husband read what you have written here? One post said things not to say to your husband "I'm going to send you back"etc. Why is it ok for someone to say anything hurtful or mean to their spouse? It should not be acceptable for a woman or a man to say these kind of things to the person they love. Would a mother say to her children in the heat of the moment " I hate you and I wish you were dead" No that is horible and would hurt your child extremely but women get angry at their husbands and say these things but we are suppose to understand?

QUOTE (CarolynRitesh @ Apr 9 2008, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know if that is just a man/woman, East/West thing or not, but what the MENA hubby posted applies for Ritesh too - NEVER talk about the relationship in a 'public' way. He has learned to accept that I talk to close girlfriends, but he only talks to me about what is between us - not even his best friends.

Aman I would never in a million years talk about personal problems with anyone but my wife. but it is open season on the ex.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 16:01:00

QUOTE (sarahaziz @ Apr 9 2008, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (HAYATI-L @ Apr 8 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hey everyone. i am amena man and read most stuff about this... WHY WE CHANGE WHEN WE GO USA?!
well, i havent been to usa yet... and i know many things i would face over there... money, culture , homesick and work of course...
i guess i passed homesick when i am here in jordan,, i have worked for several times away from my family.. and i miss them but not the much that i get a sickness of that or even effect my relation to my new family ( my wife and my stepson).
and my family arent expeting me making a wilth in couple months cuz money arent on streets in usa or any other place in this world... u need to work hard anywhere you are .. usa or home country...
so what else i should explain? waiting for my wife to get my lunch for me... i do mine here too... and i wash dishes too.. lol.. i dont feel that isnt a manly thing... nothing wrong of that..
friends? i dont think i am gonna have a friends of the meaning of real friends.. maybe work-mates is good to say this.. or niaghbours!! hee hee... but why i wont have friends?
well, thats up to the person.. and for me i am work-home,home-work.. man,, i rarely go out... altho i know 80% of places in jordan.. and for getting lost in the state i live in? no no.. i dont think so.. cuz i can read english and dirctions good...
so my fear is falling in troubles cuz i am so tempered.. i mean fights.. and i dont feel scared of any1... i hit any body.. and i dont care if ur 8 ft tall... lol... thats cuesed of me living in a nighbourhood of arabic gangsters and ask ur jordanian man about something called (deonegee) or D1G...and he will tell if he ever lives in irbed or zarqa... or any refugees camp in jordan.
so.. i already know i will have troubles if i keep reading all of ur writting cuz its individaul things happned with some people... and if u think ALL of mena men gonna change i am gonna be an exception... i hope so..
and something i started to hate in this website.. WHY DO YOU WRITE SOME OF YOUR THINGS ABOUT YOUR HUSBAND THAT SHOULD BE A SECERT BETWEEN A HUSBAND AND A WIFE? i mean writing ur troubles in some website !! and let starnge people read and comment it...
whatever!
yazied

you should be careful if you get into legal trouble here they can deport you for physical fighting. I'm sure they will do anything to kick an arab out of USA.

Hey this guy is being honest...what would the guys think about what their wives are writting here?

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 15:45:00

OK I just read a thread about adjusting to America in a Turkish thread and in 5 pages there was not one comment about what makes them angry with their Turkish husbands, it was all about adjustment to the culture. Several women in the MENA thread did the same, only comment about the adjustment. Why is it that some women in this thread are complaining about their husbands but not the Turkish thread?

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 15:32:00

QUOTE (Len_and_Bren @ Apr 9 2008, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (wahrania @ Apr 9 2008, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But we Mexican women are saints wahrania my dear.... didn't you know that?????

I like your posts sister.
Oh, wait. Hubby says "you are no Saint". Darn. And I am not a mom, either

and neither do I fit the stereotype of the 'good wife' (whatever that means).

In my humble opinion my Mexican wife is a Saint.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 15:09:00

QUOTE (Jenn! @ Apr 9 2008, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Pattu Rani @ Apr 9 2008, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe there are sweet humble hardworking American guys who aren't trying to be something they aren't but I haven't met any.

Absolutely there are! I think painting all American men with one brush is just as bad as doing it with American women, no?

She is being honest and that is good. American men have been told there job is to work hard and provide for their families. The better we do this the more we are told we are doing a good job.

She has stated that she only wants a man to be humble and that will love her, nothing else. Please be sure to tell your husband all of this before he can become "Americanized"

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 14:46:00

QUOTE (CarolynRitesh @ Apr 9 2008, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 10 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (wahrania @ Apr 9 2008, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have moved on and I never talk about her, I only brought her up because I am curious why the difference in women from other cultures.

Your parents did a good job raising you. All women and men what the best, there is nothing wrong with that. I don't mean money and cars but I mean a happy fullfilling life.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 14:33:00

I hope everyone's relationship works out well for them and all their dreams come true. We all have gone through a lot to find the right one for us even if we had to deal with the US goverment to bring our loved ones here.
I hope we have all learned from our past mistakes and have chosen to correct the errors in our selves as well as choosing the right person to spend the rest of our lives with.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 14:29:00

QUOTE (wahrania @ Apr 9 2008, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (wahrania @ Apr 9 2008, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have moved on and I never talk about her, I only brought her up because I am curious why the difference in women from other cultures.

Well...I have heard some foreign menor American men talk about their ex american wives as "she was a drunk" or she was "fat and wouldnt lose weight" but I always get a chuckle when they say " she was crazy and she stopped my papers and threw me out of the house and her family were crazy and they came and got her and then they turned me against her and then she started going to all these "american" things and left me at home". OR "I spent all my weekends fishing and I just couldnt understand why she ever wanted to do anything with ME on the weekends and then she left me." DUH> Is it normal -when we bitchy American women are happy when "some of us" DONT get taken for a ride and wreak bitter havoc on people that are HURTING US? I don't know but I kind of like crazy ex wives.. in fact for every crazy ex wife there is a WHOLE STORY about what their passive agressive or whiney male ex did to push them to ride the crazy train.. Oh well. Heres to all the crazy ex wives

I hope your new husband brings you happiness and your life becomes what you want.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 14:15:00

QUOTE (just_Jackie @ Apr 9 2008, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does it suck when they get here? a little...what really sucks is when they leave.

eom

I'm sorry he left.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 14:12:00

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (wahrania @ Apr 9 2008, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have moved on and I never talk about her, I only brought her up because I am curious why the difference in women from other cultures.

I am sure there are horible women everywhere.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 14:03:00

QUOTE (bridget @ Apr 9 2008, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How would you women feel if your husbands started a thread "What sucks when I get here" and this is what pisses me off with my American wife?

I would love insite from the men who have been here for a while.

QUOTE (Paula&Minya @ Apr 9 2008, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do have feelings for my ex, it is hate. She is evil. I am only asking an honest question here, I am curious why the difference. I give my wife everything she wants. I would give my life for my my wife, the difference I see is that she does not take advantage of me.

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 11:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I said before, I don't dwell on it. I only brought it up to see why the differences. I don't feel anything for my ex, not even hate. I do feel dissapointment because of the damage she has done to my son.

Umm...so which is it then? Make up your mind already and stop derailing this thread.

-P

no kiddin' this aint the "counsel talbert" thread.

I too would like to hear from the guys and what they think about it here.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 13:58:00

QUOTE (Nagishkaw @ Apr 9 2008, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (julianna @ Apr 9 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How would you women feel if your husbands started a thread "What sucks when I get here" and this is what pisses me off with my American wife?

Well, no one has started a thread about what pisses them off about their Arab spouse, nor is anyone even venting about that. I suggest you re-read.

I'd actually love to know what sucks the most for the Arab husbands who come over here. Then we could either be better prepared or try to minimize their transitions. Marriage and love are about compromise and working together, and that includes figuring out what sucks for the other person and trying to help. I doubt I am alone in wishing we knew that ahead of time.

Nope, you are not alone.

I did read the thread all the way through and several women did say this is what makes me angry or bothers me. I thought the thread would point out what the difficulties were on the guys when they got here and had to adjust, not what bothered the wives.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 13:55:00

QUOTE (julianna @ Apr 9 2008, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Nagishkaw @ Apr 9 2008, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, you are not alone.

I think a lot of us ask around and try to figure out where the hitches were (like this thread), and then from that added to our personal knowledge of the individual involved... we try to guess and prepare for what we think MAY happen. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. Lotsof us try to focus on re-creating a "home" for the individual on the get-go, although some of that just cannot be done-- especially when they are moving into an established household with almost nothing of their own. I would think that is one thing that kind of sucks for some people, but it may not matter to others. Some individuals may prefer to try to "build something together" and others probably would love to be in charge of building their own

Also I think lots of time moving to a new country you'll tend to catch a couple of colds or get kind of sick from a change in environment/viruses/bacteria/etc. That probably sucks

I got that advice from a friend, and so I had stocked up on some cold medicines and OTC stuff of all kinds, just in case.

Julianna, you seem very nice and you are not complaining but pointing out difficulties.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 13:51:00

QUOTE (wahrania @ Apr 9 2008, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have moved on and I never talk about her, I only brought her up because I am curious why the difference in women from other cultures.

I like honest answers. That is all I asked.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 13:42:00

How would you women feel if your husbands started a thread "What sucks when I get here" and this is what pisses me off with my American wife?

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 12:05:00

QUOTE (moody @ Apr 9 2008, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess I can understand hard feelings but it's not because she's American. It's because she's a #######. God makes those in every country.

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (moody @ Apr 9 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a difference in women not the culture in which the woman was brought up in.

Have you only had the one romantic experience with American women? Do you have an American mother? Was she awful too? Are all American women you've dealt with a nightmare?

Be thankful that you really don't have to deal with your ex. She has basically signed your son over to you. That's a blessing. You could be in court fighting over custody. IMO your son is more valuable than any money she can give you.

My American mother is wonderful! My wife now is alot like her in that family comes first, love your husband and take care of him. I have had many relationships with American women before my ex but after her I was alone for 10 years and didn't date. My ex threatens me all the time she is going to take him away. She tells my son that i will ignore him now that I am married again, she said that we would put him second to our new baby. She constantly trys to poison him against us. I do have a daughter with her also who she would not give me custody. She did send her to live with me just before I got married hoping that two kids would scare my wife away but my wife loves them the same as if they were her own. My ex took my daughter back when she saw that my wife was so good with the children. I get my daughter every other weekend and all holidays and vacations. I PAY MY CHILD SUPPORT for my daughter. My daughter would do anything to be with me but my ex told her it would be over her dead body before she would give up her to me. The big mistake I made was that when I got my daughter just before I got married I didn't sue for custody then. My wife wishes I did and wants me to hire a lawyer to get custody. She agrees my ex is el diablo

Thank you for not attacking me. I was only trying to see if I could get some honest answers here from women. I know there are plenty of good and bad women in all cultures. I was hoping for some honest answers so I mike understand women better. It is difficult when you give 100 % and you are given nothing. Maybe I can learn and be better.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 12:00:00

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know I will get slaughtered for saying this but why aren't there any threads from men complaining about their foreign wives? My point is we don't complain. And I don't see too many foreign brides complaining about their US husband except some in the Canadian threads but Canada is too much like the US I guess. OK am am ready to be told how terrible I am now and let me appologize upfront.

Most American men don't bother to check and see how their wife is feeling. My ex, who is American, told me once not to bother him with my feelings, he didn't have time. Not that I am saying that is similar to you, but lets face it, only foreign husbands are good enough for us.

(I hope everyone is catching sarcasm)

My point exactly. People look to other cultures for a spouse because they don't like what they have experienced here in the US. We all have horror stories about relationships with people from our same culture and this is what compelled us to look elsewhere.

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (charlesandnessa @ Apr 9 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to point out that I have custody of my 14 year old son from my previous marriage and he has type I diabetes. I do not receive child support and she refuses to even help with the medical bills. My son loves my wife now and thinks of her as his mother. We have a six month old baby and and my son loves him like he was 100% brother. He doesn't even like to call his real mom. The only time his real mom sees him is if I make him go, she never makes the effort to come see him.

And your point of telling is this is??

just a little background so that women don't think I don't understand thier side of things. It isn't just mothers that have to deal with being a single parent and having to work and put up with a deadbeat parent.

My ex was a deadbeat parent too. I prefer to dwell on what I have now, a kind loving sweet husband rather than waste my time, energy and emotion on hate. Love feels so much better than hate.

Gary you don't understand. I, and many other women here did not purposely go out to different cultures because we had a bad experience with one of our own. It just happened. You stated earlier on this thread that you hate your ex and now you say you don't feel anything, not even hate. I also have children that have been badly damaged by my ex.

I think you are a good guy that has been hurt. I am so sorry about that. It happens to many people. It's not fair and it's not right, but in the end they will have to be the one facing God to explain why they did what they did.

I hope you don't rehash your marriage with your wife and son, that would cause damage as well.

You seem like a good person. I only used the word hate in an earlier post for the effect. My ex does try to cause problems but my wife is a Saint and understands that my ex is EVIL lol. We dont discuss my ex except when dealing with matters that have to do with the children. My son who is 14 loves his baby brother and said if anything ever happened to us that he would take care of his baby brother but we NEVER want his exposed to my ex so we have to consider this if something were to ever happen to us.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 11:52:00

QUOTE (moody @ Apr 9 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 11:47:00

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (charlesandnessa @ Apr 9 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And your point of telling is this is??

My ex was a deadbeat parent too. I prefer to dwell on what I have now, a kind loving sweet husband rather than waste my time, energy and emotion on hate. Love feels so much better than hate.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 11:31:00

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 11:27:00

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (charlesandnessa @ Apr 9 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And your point of telling is this is??

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 11:22:00

QUOTE (morocco4ever @ Apr 9 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have moved on and I never talk about her, I only brought her up because I am curious why the difference in women from other cultures.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 11:20:00

QUOTE (charlesandnessa @ Apr 9 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 11:17:00

I do have feelings for my ex, it is hate. She is evil. I am only asking an honest question here, I am curious why the difference. I give my wife everything she wants. I would give my life for my my wife, the difference I see is that she does not take advantage of me.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 11:07:00

QUOTE (bridget @ Apr 9 2008, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Jenn! @ Apr 9 2008, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Jenn! @ Apr 9 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's because American women are whiny b!tches.

Everyone remember I was not the one to say this.

Just helping to clarify what you were really getting at. Unless I've misinterpreted.

Too bad you don't have the balls to just come out and say it. Though I find that typical of American men.

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 9 2008, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know I will get slaughtered for saying this but why aren't there any threads from men complaining about their foreign wives? My point is we don't complain. And I don't see too many foreign brides complaining about their US husband except some in the Canadian threads but Canada is too much like the US I guess. OK am am ready to be told how terrible I am now and let me appologize upfront.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that perhaps it is because women for the most part are the ones to do the majority of the work around the house, on top of working outside the home, so what, exactly, would the men have to complain about?

Ours have been cut of by American women.

My ex American wife complained all the time and she didn't have to work and I cleaned as much or more than she did. My wife now never complains. She stays home too and does ten times more than my ex but she never complains. I do everything I can to help her around the house the same as I did before so why the difference?

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 10:53:00

QUOTE (Jenn! @ Apr 9 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's because American women are whiny b!tches.

Everyone remember I was not the one to say this.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 10:19:00

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-09 10:07:00

Co mingling finances.. loans etc

You also have to think about if you took someone away from the family that has help them in the past. I know my wife was helping her parents out with a few things until I took her away. I feel a little responsable to help when they need it. My wife is a stay at home mom at least until our baby starts school. If her parents need something we will help in anyway we can. She says she will work if we need money but it is worth it to me for her to be home with our baby, she feels the same way and would work only if it is neccesary.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-06-18 13:18:00

Co mingling finances.. loans etc

I would think telling your husband you don't trust him enough to share your money is a little controlling isn't it? If a husband told his wife she can't be on any of his accounts and he doesn't trust her with money everyone would be screaming how bad he is.

Finances are one of the leading causes of divorce, I think the better choice would be to teach him about being financially responsible and going to a financial planner would be a great idea. Keeping everything seperate to me is just telling him that you don't trust him and your money is yours, not his.

Something to consider might be for him to be a stay at home dad if he can't make as much as you can or enough to justify him working and the cost of day care, his gas, a second car, insurance, etc. If he were to do this you need to think about if the situation were reversed how would you want to be treated as a stay at home mom?

Edited by Gaby&Talbert, 12 June 2008 - 09:43 AM.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-06-12 09:41:00

My Husband's Father was Deported Yesterday

QUOTE (allousa @ Jul 14 2008, 08:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm definitely perplexed as to how this thread took the turn that it did. If it weren't for the fact that there is valuable information within this thread for someone to refer back to should they ever find themselves in this unforntuate situation, I would request this thread to be closed.

I'm not sure why I've been brow beaten for not properly thanking people for information. Because I have gotten an overwhelming response from all but one person, I used a couple of my posts to thank everyone for all that they are doing as I simply don't have time to respond to each individual person. It's as if I'm required to bow and back out of the room and lay prostate on the floor or something.

I DID NOT start this thread with the intention of getting names for a petition or the "woe is me" factor. Many of these people know what I've experienced the last year and have been a lifeline in keeping me afloat at times.

As far as me being "over-reactive"...hmmmm...let's see...

I am still dealing with the sudden death of my father who was 58 in late 2006. My two year old son was involved in an accident at his daycare in January that amputated his finger, for which I am still dealing with the daycare's insurance company that has not paid the medical bills. My uncle died from complications from surgery three days before I was to get on a plane to bring my husband home, the funeral actually the day before the flight. Oh, and a week before HE passed away, I had to make the decision to put my two beloved dogs to sleep as they had succumbed to complications from old age. NOT TO MENTION, the sheer stress of my husband and I re-adjusting to each other after having been apart for 4 years is more stress than all of this put together. And then add into the mix, that my son were involved in a serious car accident at the end of May. An immigrant driving with a revoked license that provided fradulent insurance information at the scene that was allowed to walk away. I am still dealing with the insurance company over uninsured motorist coverage, the $11k damage done to my brand new car that I've only had for 3 months and the payment for treatment of our injuries. SO.....if I seem emotional...I sure as hell am not going to ask for forgiveness for being human. The sheer willpower it takes to keep myself from balling up into a fetal position and saying I can't handle this anymore is taking all the energy that I have. It IS helpful when some people know what your going through and just offer kind words of support.

Diad, NO ONE is disputing the fact that you have infinite knowledge of this subject but I must say your delivery needs some work. I am quite aware of the fight that we are up against but I'm not sure why you need to "put me on trial" so to speak. You've made comments alluding to I'm hiding something or withholding information that somehow would give reason as to my FIL's ER. I still don't have all of the information myself. My husband and I have been questioned many times through interviews with Homeland Security and Consulates over the 7 years we have gone through the legal process. I have been through dealt with CBP the numerous times that I have traveled outside of the country. Even my in-laws have dealt with Israeli soldiers during their travels to Gaza and NONE of us has ever experienced the level of mistreatment that those CBP officers in Charlotte handed out the evening we were all detained.

Not once have I EVER stated that we had anger at having to answer questions and while we are understandably upset at the ER, what we are most angry at is the complete cloak of information and the CLEAR abuse of authority throughout the whole incident. Even our own attorney has expressed outrage at what has happened. I am understandly upset at my in-laws being treated this way because I know that they are the most kind and generous people and have NOTHING in there background to give cause for the treatment they received.

I appreciate any information that I'm given as I am printing out, writing down and keeping copies of EVERYTHING in a binder file so that when we have an opportunity to address someone that does have the authority to assess the situation and make judgment about it, we will have a full arsenal to support us.

I ask that you walk a mile in my shoes first before you pass judgment on me and my reasons for posting here. This is a public forum and you have the right to say what you want. I'm just saying that your message of information is lost when you make subjective comments about my emotions and character.

By no means have you overreacted. CBP should be looking for terrorists period and check that documents are in order. This is all they need to do, why should they even have the authority to turn someone away unless they can justify in a court of law why they turned someone away.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-07-14 11:41:00

My Husband's Father was Deported Yesterday

QUOTE (allousa @ Jul 14 2008, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (rebeccajo @ Jul 12 2008, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

allousa -

I don't know if anything here will be useful to you, but I've done some research:

http://www.cbp.gov/x...eeo/complaints/

http://www.dhs.gov/x...faq_pnr_cbp.pdf

http://www.abanet.or...g_Detainees.pdf

http://airconsumer.o...ntsContacts.htm

http://www.adcnj.us/

http://citybelt.type...tention_at.html

Rebecca,

Thank you VERY MUCH for the information. I have been able to spend undivided attention to these links on my lunch break today and print out information that will be useful. While we are proceeding with a lawyer at this point, I definitely like to be as completely informed as possible about laws, regulations and such to help in evaluating decisions.

Look for a lawyer that is interested in a class action law suit becuase I am sure there are many more people that this has happened to. DHS needs to be knocked down a few pegs because of how they treat foreigners with little or no respect.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-07-14 11:37:00

My Husband's Father was Deported Yesterday

This was just wrong but the problem is that 2 completely seperate entities are involved with entering the US. DOS controls visas and DHS divisions (CBP) controls actual entry. This was a big mistake when the DHS was created and they decided which departments would be under control of DHS. If DHS has the final say for who enters then why in the world aren't they issuing the visas in the first place? It would be better to get the denial before you ever get here than deal with CBP at the POE.

I would do everything in my power to get this into the public eye.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-07-14 11:34:00

How is your spouse adjusting

QUOTE (Ganja_Girl @ Jul 17 2008, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

perfect wife

What is that excatly? Not being a smart ### comment, but really interested to know what a perfect wife is?

Nobody is perfect but nanging and complaining and expecting you to change eveything about yourself is not the right thing to do.

And I would like to say selflessness is the cure for selfishness

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-07-17 20:31:00

Wife Abuse in the Muslim Community
by Kamran Memon

Wife abuse has hurt many Muslim women, destroyed many Muslim families, and weakened the entire Muslim community. How much longer can Muslims afford to look the other way?

"And among His signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and he has put love and mercy between your (hearts)..." Qu'ran 30:21

"I recommend that you treat women with goodness. The best of you are those who treat their wives the best." Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him)

While North American Muslims loudly protest the widely-documented Serbian abuse of Muslim women in Bosnia, the abuse of many Muslim women at the hands of their own husbands in North America is hidden and ignored by the community.

Domestic violence is the single major cause of injury to women in America. "Nearly one quarter of women in the United States - more than 12 million- will be abused by a current or former partner some time during their lives," according to the American Medical Association; and, despite Islamic teachings of justice and compassion, many Muslim women in the United States and Canada are no exception.

Based on information from Muslim leaders, social workers, and activists in North America, the North American Council for Muslim Women says that approximately 10 percent of Muslim women are abused emotionally, physically, and sexually by their Muslim husbands. (There are no hard numbers, because community leaders haven't taken the well-known problem seriously enough to research.)

Wife-abuse, which stretches across all ethnic, racial, educational, and socio-economic lines in the Muslim community, results in severe emotional and physical pain for many Muslim women, a stacking up of sins for many Muslim men, and many weak, unhappy Muslim families that fail to contribute adequately to the development of the Muslim community and the rest of North American society.

Despite the severity of the problem, the Muslim community has largely closed its eyes and devoted very few resources to helping the victims and stopping the abusers.

This is doubly unfortunate because family violence is one of America's most critical health problems (according to the American Medical Association and the U.S. Surgeon General), and Islamic leadership is needed to deal with this crisis; but Muslims are clearly in no moral position to lead society because they commit and tolerate abuse within their own community.

FORMS OF ABUSE OF MUSLIM WOMEN

"Domestic violence is an ongoing, debilitating experience of physical, psychological, and/or sexual abuse in the home," says the American Medical Association.

Although Islam promises women protection from such problems, the reality in many Muslim homes is different.

The most common form of abuse is emotional and mental abuse. In Muslim homes, this includes verbal threats to divorce the wife, to remarry, or to take the kids away if she does not do exactly as she is told; intimidation and threats of harm; degradation, humiliation, insults, ridicule, name-calling, and criticism; false accusations and blaming her for everything; ignoring, dismissing, or ridiculing her needs; neglect and the silent treatment; spying on her; telling her she is a failure and will go to hell; twisting Islamic teachings to make her feel worthless because she is a woman; restricting her access to transportation, health care, food, clothing, money, friends, or social services; physical and social isolation; extreme jealousy and possessiveness; lying, breaking promises, destroying trust; etc. Emotional abuse can take place in public or at home.

Although it's completely contrary to the example of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, the Muslim community nonetheless tends to dismiss the seriousness of mental abuse, rationalizing it as a petty argument between husband and wife, and saying it's not serious unless he hits her. In reality, mental abuse does severe psychological harm to many Muslim women. It destroys their self-esteem and makes them question their self-worth; some have mental breakdowns and go insane.

Furthermore, psychological abuse can lead to physical abuse.

Physical abuse includes pushing, shoving, choking, slapping, punching, kicking, and beating; assault with a weapon; tying up; refusing to help her when she is sick or injured; physically throwing her out of the house; etc. Physical abuse escalates in frequency and severity.

The third form of abuse is sexual abuse, involving forced, violent sex. For example, a wife may not want to have sex for health reasons, but the husband may force her anyway.

These three forms of abuse are usually related and occur of a long period of time. Muslim men, just like non-Muslims, often start with mental abuse and work their way up. Muslim women need to recognize the signs of escalating abuse.

WHY DO SOME MUSLIM MEN ABUSE THEIR WIVES?

There are a number of factors that make many Muslim men abusive.

Abusers are often part of a cycle, picking up the habit after watching their own fathers abuse their mothers in North America or in Muslim countries. And their own children learn this abusive behavior and abuse their wives. (This is an important point because the longer the Muslim community tolerates abuse, the longer it will be passed on from father to son, from generation to generation.)

For cultural reasons, some Muslim men accept the idea that it's normal for a man to hit his wife and that she is no more than a piece of his property.

Some Muslim husbands abuse their wives as a result of frustration resulting from economic hardship, political oppression experienced outside the U.S., problems with the children, or an inferiority complex.

Some abuse their wives because they want them to be more "modern" and less Islamic by removing their hijab (Islamic dress), while others are abusive because they want the opposite.

Some Muslims with superficial ties to Islam don't know that abuse is unacceptable due to their weak faith, poor Islamic knowledge, and lack of interaction with the Muslim community.

Tragically, some Muslim men actually use Islam to "justify" their abusive behavior. Focusing on rituals, considering themselves to be Islamically knowledgeable, and disregarding the spirit of Islam, they wrongly use the Qur'anic verse that says men are the protectors and maintainers of women to go on power trips, demand total obedience, and order their wives around. They disregard the Islamic requirement for the head of the household to consult with other members of the family when making decisions.

Then, if their wives dare to speak up or question their orders, these men misinterpret a Qur'anic verse that talks about how to treat a disobedient wife and use it as a license for abuse.

In reality, the Qur'an and Sunnah provide clear instructions on what procedures a husband must use in conflict situations where the husband is innocent and the wife is rebellious and at fault. The first step is a peaceful discussion between the two of them about the problem and solutions. This is intended to soften hearts and eliminate misunderstandings. If this doesn't work, the next step is for the husband to tell his wife his expectations in a firm, decisive manner. If the rebelliousness and disobedience continues, the husband is supposed to leave the bed, which is really a punishment for both of them for not being able to resolve their differences. If that fails to solve the problem, representatives of both sides meet to try and arbitrate. As a last resort, if he thinks it will prevent divorce by letting the wife know how serious he is, the husband can use a light slap on the hand or shoulder but not on any other part of the body, and it shouldn't leave a mark or scar. Anything beyond this is Islamically prohibited.

This procedure is to be followed _only_ when the wife is the cause of a serious problem and the husband is innocent, compassionate, and well-behaved. If the husband is the cause of the problem, he has _no right_ to do any of this.

Unfortunately, Muslim wives often accept un-Islamic treatment from their husbands because they don't know their Islamic rights, and they don't realize their husbands are crossing the Islamic line.

Abusive men are completely disregarding the Islamic teachings of kindness, mercy, gentleness, and forgiveness, just as they are disregarding the example of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, who never hit a woman and was extremely gentle and compassionate with his family.

WHY IS HELP SO SCARCE?

One problem is that many Muslims don't want to get involved in the "private" family affairs of other Muslims. Rather than enjoining good and forbidding evil, rather than trying to stop abuse in a friend's or neighbor's family by offering to mediate between the husband and wife or by encouraging them to speak to Muslim counsellors, many irresponsible Muslims close their eyes and pretend they don't know there's a problem. So the abuse goes on.

Another reason why abuse isn't stopped is that many abused Muslim women simply don't seek out help. They're afraid that if their situation becomes public they will lose their privacy because Muslims gossip so much, and they fear the abusers will become more hostile when the negative publicity gets back to them. Furthermore, many abused Muslim women remain silent because they lack confidence in themselves and believe that they somehow deserve the abuse. Abused Muslim women also keep quiet out of a feeling of hopelessness and a belief that no one will help them, out of financial dependence on their husbands, out of a desire to keep homes together for the children's sake, or out of love for the abusive husbands. Other Muslim women accept the abuse as a fact of life and learn to live with it.

Of those who reach a breaking point and seek help, many Muslim women turn to imams but often find them unhelpful. Imams often tell these women to be patient and pray for the abuse to end. Some imams make the abused Muslim women feel guilty, telling them they have brought the abuse upon themselves and instructing them to go home and please their husbands. Other imams, who are sincerely but mistakenly misinterpreting Islam by putting the importance of family privacy above any harm that might come to the individual woman, tell the women it is wrong for them to discuss their problems with anyone other than their husbands. The imams's reactions stem from ignorance, cowardice, or friend-ship or blood relationship with the abusive husbands. Relatively few imams have had the wisdom and courage to tackle the problem head-on. As a result of this, many abused women don't bother turning to imams for help.

Looking for other sources of help, many abused Muslim women have turned to relatives only to be told to accept the abuse because making a big deal out of it could hurt the relatives' family honor and reputation.

Finding many imams and relatives to be more cruel than Islamic, abused Muslim women often turn to Muslim female activists and Muslim women's organizations for help. While these activists are often untrained in crisis intervention, they are getting the abused women out of their houses and hiding them until Muslim men can be sent to try to reason with the husbands. They often collect money from other women to give to the abused women until it's safe for them to go back home. When continued attempts to salvage the marriages have proven futile, these activists counsel the abused women on how to get out of their marriages.

As for national Islamic organizations, most have largely ignored the issue of wife abuse, neglecting to highlight the problem and solutions during national conferences or to devote resources to helping abused Muslim women.

Overall, the services provided by the Muslim community for abused Muslim women take care of one-quarter of the need, according to Muslim activists.

Because the Muslim community often leaves them to suffer, many abused Muslim women turn to shelters run by non-Muslims for help. (Seeing abused Muslim women at shelters leaves non-Muslim social workers with an ugly picture of Islam. As far as many of them are concerned, Islam is no more just and compassionate than Christianity or Judaism because the Muslim community tolerates wife abuse too. Going to a non-Muslim shelter can result social workers taking children away from troubled Muslim homes if they think it is better for them to be in a more stable environment, which often ends up being a non-Muslim home.)

Many women go even further, leaving Islam altogether because the Muslim community fails to live up to the Islamic promise of protection, brotherhood, and sisterhood.

THE COMMUNITY'S ROLE

The Muslim community has clearly failed in its obligations to protect many Muslim women and to bring many cruel Muslim men to justice. The community needs to deal much more effectively with wife abuse in order to stop the immediate suffering of people in abusive situations and to help build healthy Muslim families.

First, the community must accept the fact that there is a problem and that it doesn't know how to deal with it.

Then a core group of trusted, active Muslim men and women in each North American city, who are committed to ending wife abuse in the Muslim community and to strengthening Muslim families, must become knowledgeable about Islamic guidelines on the family and be trained in crisis intervention and counseling. (Unfortunately, some community "leaders" will be too ignorant or arrogant to seek such training; but they must not be allowed to get in the way.)

Since there aren't yet many Muslims qualified to teach crisis intervention and counseling, several Muslim women throughout North America have started learning these techniques from non-Muslim social service agencies (listed in the phone book under wife abuse, domestic violence, or crisis intervention). Other Muslim women and men need to follow suit. Whatever they learn from these agencies should be cast in the light of their Islamic knowledge of properly functioning Muslim families.

Once they know what they're doing, members of core groups across the continent should recruit and train others in their communities in crisis intervention and the Islamic perspective on the family. There should be a network of at least 100 trained counselors in every major North American city.

A list of trained Muslims and their phone numbers (or one Muslim hotline number) should be circulated throughout the community in each city so that abused women know whom they can turn to for meaningful help.

(Most of women approaching the network initially will be physically abused Muslims. Victims of mental abuse will less likely to reach out at first because many have become accustomed to the abuse and accept it as a way of life. But educational programs at community gatherings -- explaining what Islamic family life should be like and explaining that there is help available for abused women -- will let emotionally abused Muslim women know they have a way to stop the pain.)

These trained Muslims should give abused women shelter (at people's homes or at community facilities, such as a rented apartment) for periods ranging from several days to several months depending on the extent of the abuse, while counseling them.

(Beyond this, taking into account the fact that many Muslim women will still turn to non-Muslim shelters because they don't want to deal with the Muslim community or because the community program is not big enough to help them, the Muslim community should sensitize people running non-Muslim shelters to the particular needs of Muslim women; and trained Muslims should visit the shelters regularly and constantly remind shelter operators that they are available to help whenever a Muslim woman comes in.)

While caring for the abused women, the trained Muslims should counsel the abusers separately, making them aware of the reasons they abuse, of the fact that their actions are truly harming their wives, that such behavior is completely un-Islamic, and that God will hold them accountable.

After separate counselling, the next step would be joint counselling for the husband and wife, and then counselling for the entire family. The objective should be to heal the family, but divorce may be necessary.

Another option, that some Muslims in New York have tried, is to punish Muslim men for their abusive actions. A "security force" warns, and then beats up, if necessary, Muslim men who continue beating their wives. Usually the abusers get the message; this is the only language many of them understand. Some men have to be beaten before they wake up and are ready to listen to rational, Islamic arguments.

Police and psychiatrists may have to be involved in severe cases of chronic abuse.

Community education is an indispensable factor on top of all this. Starting today, throughout the process outlined above, community leaders and other concerned Muslims need to educate people -- about the problem and about efforts to help victims and prevent future abuse -- through Friday khutbahs (sermons), educational seminars, and workshops. These educational programs can themselves reduce abuse by letting people know the community isn't going to tolerate it anymore. the community isn't going to tolerate if anymore.

Furthermore, the community needs to establish classes to teach Muslim men, young and old, how to be proper husbands and fathers and to teach Muslim women, young and old, how to be proper wives and mothers. Many Muslims don't know their rights and obligations in these roles.

In addition, in order to prevent future family problems, parents and community leaders must teach children and young adults to be compassionate, to value the family, and to resolve problems in an Islamic, non-violent manner.

It's also important for Muslims to go into field like psychiatry, women's issues law, social work, and counselling.

No Muslim community in any North American city has taken all these steps. Unfortunately, the entire plan could take years to implement. (Of course, that makes it all the more necessary to start immediately.) But when theses steps are taken, abuse should decrease if not stop in the Muslim community, according to Muslim social workers and activists.

If, once all these steps are taken, there are more abused Muslim women in specific communities than these networks can adequately help, then Muslims should establish good quality, properly staffed, and well funded Muslim shelters. Many communities may not need to go this far, but some may.

DO YOU REALLY CARE?

It sounds like a lot of work, but the problem is serious enough to warrant a lot of work. The Muslim community has shamefully tolerated abuse for a long time. How much longer will Muslim families (and therefore the Muslim community) be weakened by abuse? How much longer will abusers be allowed to run free and unpunished in the community? How much more abuse will Muslim women have to endure before the community decides that enough is enough?

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-22 11:33:00

QUOTE (estadia @ Apr 22 2008, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

we are not married yet but what works for us if he has done or said something that hurts me.......i just get silent
i answer if he ask me something but only what is required he understands right away something he did was wrong and we talk about it........if i do something to upset him he cooks nobody can eat what he cooks lol cuz its too hot and spicy thats how i know if i crossed the line lol at least when we are together..........last time that happened my mom said ok thats it find out what u did wrong im hungery and i cant eat that lol.......there are ways to show the other person ur unhappy about something with out a big fight most the time.........

Thats a little passive agressive isn't it? lol Healthy communication is a skill everyone should learn. You are right in that there are ways to discuss issues without a fight, it up to each couple to learn the best way to communicate without hurting the other person.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-22 09:55:00

QUOTE (Sister Fracas @ Apr 22 2008, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Gaby&Talbert @ Apr 22 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (brnidokiegurl @ Apr 22 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We can say he wasnt much of a man, but was he taught this by their standards < im just asking, is this what they are taught generation to generation

wrong is wrong, hitting someone is just not right. Whipping slaves was taught to be ok but not every slave owner did it. Hitting is used when the subject cannot understand words to learn a strong lesson. If you tell a child to stay out of the street because they could die and still the child runs out into the street you would spank them to send a strong message that it is extremely dangerous. An adult can understand right and wrong so if they still choose to do wrong after you talk with them hitting them will not teach them anything.

There is still something off with that statement...is it only the wife that needs to be "taught" what is right and wrong?

Good point, men do plenty of things wrong too but you don't hear about men being beaten by their wives into submission or their wives coming home drunk and beating their husbands. I'm sure it happens some times but men are typically stronger than women and thoughout history if one person has the ability to dominate another they will abuse the power.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-22 09:47:00

QUOTE (brnidokiegurl @ Apr 22 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We can say he wasnt much of a man, but was he taught this by their standards < im just asking, is this what they are taught generation to generation

wrong is wrong, hitting someone is just not right. Whipping slaves was taught to be ok but not every slave owner did it. Hitting is used when the subject cannot understand words to learn a strong lesson. If you tell a child to stay out of the street because they could die and still the child runs out into the street you would spank them to send a strong message that it is extremely dangerous. An adult can understand right and wrong so if they still choose to do wrong after you talk with them hitting them will not teach them anything.

QUOTE (estadia @ Apr 22 2008, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

every couple should try to give 110 percent to make their marraige work why 110 percent? because there are days that some can not give even 60 percent so it evens out.......from what i have seen of marriages that try this theirs last.........

The best advice yet!

The cure for selfishness is selflessness.

Gaby&Talbert

Male

Mexico

2008-04-22 09:37:00